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Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs

 
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Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 1/28/2018 1:14:27 AM   
jboldt007


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Not a question but a reminder for new players: I was trying to land a Canadian corps In Egypt and got the “foreign troop commitment not met” alert. I thought what the heck - there’s a South African unit In Suez and in any event a CW unit should be able to land there. As a Canadian myself the rebuff was even moreso alarming. Then it dawned on me - the unit arrived on a Norwegian transport... d’oh!! Had to bail the
CanadIans in Cyprus (a “proper” CW transport is on its way). Lesson: remember that foreign troop commitment applies to any unit - includIng ships and aircraft.
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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 1/28/2018 2:01:48 AM   
paulderynck


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Better to wait out at sea and use a land move to debark.

...mind you, that's usually safer when done from the Red Sea...

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 1/29/2018 3:59:47 PM   
jboldt007


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Good point - in this case allies had the initiative and the Italian navy (those fueled up) would have sortied out in their turn (which they did in any event). Of course the Canadian corps still has to get back to Egypt safely now...

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 1/29/2018 10:26:15 PM   
hazmaxed

 

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In my current Global War solitaire game, I tried to RTB a Dutch TRS loaded with Gort HQ from the Red Sea to Free French Syria during the return to base phase, but could not. No message, just the big X. He had to divert to Cyprus as well. I guess the game did not allow this to happen because of the foreign troop commitment rule, despite the fact that if Gort were already there, the TRS could have RTBed to the Syrian port.

Gort to DeGaulle: "I'm on the way, you got room to park my ride?"

DeGaulle to Gort: "Sure, but ya gotta swim ashore first..."

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 1/30/2018 2:22:57 AM   
paulderynck


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It wasn't Gort's fault - after all he can arrive in France on a CW TRS exactly like that, before France and the CW cooperate. The fault lies with the Dutch TRS which has no HQ of it's own and the Dutch (even as a gov't in exile operating out of Ottawa) don't cooperate with Free France.

The Dutch TRS is often a real PITA...

I'll bet there's a good proportion of times over the boardgame that the Dutch and CW get away with moves like this because cardboard doesn't enforce the rules that the players overlook, but software does.

Plus we don't have the luxury in MWiF of the eventual complete absorption of the Dutch navy by the RN because in MWiF we have Dutch Guyana so the Netehrlands is almost never completely conquered.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 1/30/2018 2:29:22 AM >


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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 1/30/2018 9:16:19 AM   
Joseignacio


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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

It wasn't Gort's fault - after all he can arrive in France on a CW TRS exactly like that, before France and the CW cooperate. The fault lies with the Dutch TRS which has no HQ of it's own and the Dutch (even as a gov't in exile operating out of Ottawa) don't cooperate with Free France.

The Dutch TRS is often a real PITA...

I'll bet there's a good proportion of times over the boardgame that the Dutch and CW get away with moves like this because cardboard doesn't enforce the rules that the players overlook, but software does.

Plus we don't have the luxury in MWiF of the eventual complete absorption of the Dutch navy by the RN because in MWiF we have Dutch Guyana so the Netehrlands is almost never completely conquered.


Shouldn't the Dutch TRS be reflagged as UK ship just as relocated danish ships after the fall of Continental Denmark or the convoys from any country?

Of course at turn's end.

We always treated it just as any other ship, as you say it happens in cardboard games.

Edit: I just read about Dutch Guyana. Maybe this is the difference? In our games the rest of the country changes directly to NEI, so I guess there is no longer an incompletely defeated Netherlands.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 1/30/2018 9:22:35 AM >

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 1/30/2018 8:31:40 PM   
paulderynck


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The Dutch ships are not absorbed into the RN unless Netherlands is completely conquered. Early in the game this is quite unlikely because of NEI. It does not matter if the Dutch home country is the NEI or the UK, what matters is if the Netherlands still has unconquered minor countries aligned with it. That keeps it incompletely conquered and yes Dutch Guyana has that effect.

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 2/4/2018 2:35:49 AM   
jboldt007


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Ah... you know in my case with the Norwegians not having their papers in order I realized that when trying to land the Canadians in Egypt - at that moment Norway had NOT been conquered. The next turn Norway was completely conquered and surviving ships in CW turned “blue and red “ i.e. were now completely “owned” by the CW so at that point the Norwegian transport I think WOULD have been allowed into Egypt. And now that I think of it - yeah- the Dutch will rarely be completely conquered - but most of their ships will end up being freighters which rarely would need to enter non CW ports assuming CW controls them...?

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 2/4/2018 3:59:20 AM   
paulderynck


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CW control is not good enough. They control numerous minor countries that don't cooperate with the Dutch. It has to be one of their home countries or a CW territory and that port hex cannot contain any unit of those other minors or any other incompletely conquered minor that gets aligned with the CW as the game progresses.

Once a country that was aligned to the CW gets completely conquered, then its remaining naval units are considered RN units in all respects.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 2/4/2018 4:00:20 AM >


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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 2/4/2018 4:45:52 AM   
jboldt007


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Re: “...and that port hex cannot contain any unit of those other minors or any other incompletely conquered minor that gets aligned with the CW as the game progresses...”- I did not know that... or maybe I did and forgot. As a quick reminder for new players - if the counter is “two toned” I.e has changed - the Color band on the top is the country which has “absorbed” the naval unit.

I remember when first learning trying to ship Brazilian troops overseas (Atlantic) only to find out the hard way what foreign troop commitment means...

I was going to add earlier: When learning we just try and sail into a port and unload. Learning when to embark or disembark at sea ( or not) is important.

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 2/4/2018 6:44:49 PM   
paulderynck


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I meant that FTC can apply both to the nationality of the port hex and to the nationality of units in the port hex. So FREX the Dutch TRS becomes two toned so it can now carry FREX a Nigerian Terr (whereas before it could not) and it tries to transport it to FREX Gibraltar which contains say a US MIL and a CW InfDiv.

It can't enter the port nor even stay at sea and debark the Nigerian, because Nigeria and the USA do not cooperate (and Nigeria has no HQ units anyway).

The Dutch TRS could however debark the Nigerian into a conquered (formerly Vichy) Morocco, joining a Cdn Inf there, because Canada is a CW home country and thus Cdn units are CW major power units, and then if it had not sailed into port, the TRS could RTB to Gibraltar since it's now an RN unit. Then say Morocco gets reverted to Free France. The Nigerian can stay because it met FTC requirements when it landed, but if it leaves, it can't come back.

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 2/17/2018 9:07:06 PM   
jboldt007


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Thanks ! I actually understood this all - proud of myself (maybe I’m finally becoming a better player). In any event, if one thinks there’s a bug because you can’t move units into a port- the answer probably lies in the reasons noted above.

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 3/15/2018 2:38:21 AM   
jboldt007


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You know .... in looking back at last GW game, I realize that those pesky ( but very useful) Dutch destroyers etc caused a bunch of problems regarding the issues as noted above- particularly in the uk and Australia. I now make sure the Dutch ships return to their own port so they can’t cause any problems.

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 3/15/2018 3:51:33 AM   
paulderynck


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One does not like to lose ones units but as the Allies I find there's an upside to having Dutch ships get sunk or captured.

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 3/15/2018 9:59:28 AM   
Joseignacio


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Well, you can unse it in the Asia/Pacific/Red sea areas, where there is not much need to enter French areas.

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 3/15/2018 7:11:26 PM   
paulderynck


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Great. They also can't enter CW minors, stack with any but CW home country units, nor can they stack with any USA units.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 3/15/2018 7:14:49 PM >


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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 3/15/2018 8:31:41 PM   
jboldt007


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Yeah it was the stacking with US units which was the thing I had not grasped- trying to move the US fleet to Melbourne, cruisers and transports into Gibraltar or Southampton or Manchester etc. and there were Dutch ships hanging around in the ports. The rule is understandable even if in these cases it might seem a bit restrictive or odd. But once the rule is ingrained there shouldn’t be a problem. Mexican and Brazilian units have to be careful where they are sent to as well (although their range limits their usefulness) and so on.

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 3/16/2018 8:57:40 AM   
Joseignacio


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As a CW player, I usually need to have a TRS carrying units from Australia to Asia/Pacific Islands' valuable places, like Rabaul, Malaya (if in our hands), and sometimes Indian/Australian units to Suez, depending on how the JA player is doing, or vice versa. You need to have some lift in that area.

And there are plenty of ports (many major) in Australia, India, and other intermediate territories.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 3/16/2018 9:44:36 AM >

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RE: Foreign troop commitment - reminder for newbs - 3/17/2018 3:51:22 AM   
jboldt007


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Of course a player should always check the Relations form if in doubt - if the units don’t cooperate then assume there will be problems in moving into a port even if they could fight together at sea...

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