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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3?

 
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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/8/2018 1:54:03 PM   
btd64


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I'm drooling. How far along are you? How long have you been working on this project?....GP

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/8/2018 2:28:16 PM   
ericv

 

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I would like to be able to select a bunch of units at the same time (airgroups, LCU's, bases) and with the help of filters, make a subselection and set all kinds of parameters en masse in this subset. That would do away with much of the unnecessary clicking

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/8/2018 4:19:24 PM   
RichardAckermann

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64
I'm drooling. How far along are you? How long have you been working on this project?....GP


I've been on this for around 2 years. Things missing are mainly map art/PWhexe data for the global game (WITP AE map art/hex data can be used for imported AE scenarios), complexity of most combat calculations, flavour and immersion messages, offmap movement, river crossing/movement, OOB & scenario design, testing of PBEM synchronity, a few interface things like sorting functions on some panels, improving the AI for single player and resolving the copyrights issue with the owners of WITP AE Copyrights (some 3 companies).
And, of course, bugfixing. A never ending work.
How good it will be in the end is also questionable. I'm not the most proficent programmer, and I did not work in the field for almost 20 years. The things I still know about programming are outdated.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericv
I would like to be able to select a bunch of units at the same time (airgroups, LCU's, bases) and with the help of filters, make a subselection and set all kinds of parameters en masse in this subset. That would do away with much of the unnecessary clicking


I already coded a right click LCU move that does only move/follow units attached to the same HQ. So you can move around "grouped together" LCUs. LCU Target planning is also right click set for all in hex.
For other things...most of the item lists (ships,bases,LCU) are quite long. That will make a multi selection difficult. Do you have examples on what commands you want to issue? Maybe I come across a way to at least work into the right direction.


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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/8/2018 5:17:31 PM   
CharlieVane


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A more in-depth system to show control of a hex, to represent circumstances like an invading army seizing control of a base's airfield or port while the main enemy force is still in control of the hex itself.

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Post #: 94
RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/8/2018 6:36:32 PM   
cardas

 

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- Mixed TO&E. Doesn't matter much for the US but for many other countries you are looking at air groups and land formations that should be allowed to mix and match aircraft and guns to a greater degree.

- Not hex based, use a full globe. Clearly this is beyond what you are doing but this is what I'd consider ideal. No more map distortions throwing things out of whack.

When it comes to fatigue I always though there should be two kinds: short term physical fatigue (simple lack of sleep, having to move around a bunch etc.) and long term fatigue (mental fatigue, wear and tear on the body that doesn't fully get to recover etc.). Short term fatigue comes and goes quickly, long term fatigue would build up constantly as long as a unit stays in "unsafe" areas and only goes down if it's rotated to safe civilian rear areas. Both would add simple penalties to pretty much any roll, no matter what it is.

As a general comment it's of course easy to make suggestions, it's harder to implement them and still keep it a fun game rather than spreadsheet busy-work. An idea might sound fun (at least to some) in theory, such as differentiated supply, however keeping the game fun for most people while implementing such an idea can be a tall task to ask.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/8/2018 6:54:50 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann


I already coded a right click LCU move that does only move/follow units attached to the same HQ. So you can move around "grouped together" LCUs. LCU Target planning is also right click set for all in hex.
For other things...most of the item lists (ships,bases,LCU) are quite long. That will make a multi selection difficult. Do you have examples on what commands you want to issue? Maybe I come across a way to at least work into the right direction.





There's way. The War in the East-West way; in those games, the hierarchical order of battle's role is tantamunt;

for example: certain air units are under the command of a definite Command unit (and they must be; and the HQ has to be close; if not, the sub units shall incurr in supply and control check penalties); then , if you select that command unit for an order, you open a clear and user friendly interface where you can select all the fighters, or all the fighter bombers , or all the recce, for one mission and order; alternatively, you can exclude or include any squadron you wish from that order; this in few words;

the higher the Command in hierarchy, the greater, of course, the number of units that can be assigned to the same order WITH ONE CLICK ONLY (do you understand this, men, do you?)

btw, the supply system in the above mentioned game shuold be "copied and reattached" to our game; not an easy feature though;

just to mention for your interest some few features briefly, the supply is governed by the HQs; +, by the availabilty of vehicles (i.e. trucks mainly, but also horses, besides trains) in the pool for resupply duty (and trucks need to be produced by the production segment of the game , very similar to the Japanese production module- from which it is derived and younger sibling;)

If you, Richard Ackermann or whoever in his stead, didn't know that, War in the East was developed by the same people and the same company who developed WITP;

(and, between commas, the WITP/WITE idea and concepts derive from the still unsurpassed cardboard game "The Campaign for North Africa"; yes, yes, we need also that theatre, the mediterranean one)

One who's well versed in WITP, can more easily and faster understand the features in that game, because he recognize their ancestors in WITP; in WITP, 2by3 developed a number of much noticeable features which remained at an embrional state although, to be furtherly developed and refined in the following series, WITE and WITW;


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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/9/2018 1:43:50 AM   
GaryChildress

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

Actually, a partially very difficult request. Especially for things like "durability" there are alot of specifications to aircraft apart from flight performance data and self sealing tanks. Very difficult to extrapolate the resilience to gunfire from sheer values. I think one would have to add as many types of data to exceed the limit of what people other than aviation engineers can do.

Same goes for devices like active and passive sonar / radar. Effect rating is a very convenient way to give some bonus or effect. Having audio frequencies, range, sound receiver quality modeled into the editor is nightmare. Same goes for Radar devices specifications. Hard to imagine a way to do without some abstracted effect value.

Doing without hardcoding devices and locations should be possible.
Time period choosable. Want a napoleonic game amidst the 19th century? No problem at all.



Well, I hear what you are saying. At least it would be nice to have some of the algorithms known to modders. For example, knowing what to set something like "durability" to in order to achieve a certain average outcome or something would help, I think. I wish the editor manual was more candid in disclosing some of the mathematics behind the number fields and how results are arrived at.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/9/2018 2:06:20 AM   
GaryChildress

 

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A couple other things for the wish list:

1. The ability to add new nations to the list of combatants, including the ability to include more than one Axis nation.

2. The ability to edit the random name generation of pilots so that newly added countries can have their pilots appropriately named.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/9/2018 8:33:23 AM   
RichardAckermann

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: cardas
As a general comment it's of course easy to make suggestions, it's harder to implement them and still keep it a fun game rather than spreadsheet busy-work. An idea might sound fun (at least to some) in theory, such as differentiated supply, however keeping the game fun for most people while implementing such an idea can be a tall task to ask.


I consider those suggestions vital for any game project, especially if it is a successor to some other game. Publishers and developers should always do as Rougue187 did, and publicly ask for a wishlist. There are certainly hundreds of thousands of gaming hours accumulated by players. Those are the unmatched experts of what is eligible for improvement or inclusion. I, for my part, have drawn a lot of good ideas from here. Currently, I work on a screen that will display all airgroups in range of the selected hex allowing to setup missions for this target hex for all groups tagged.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/9/2018 12:44:53 PM   
Rogue187

 

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To add to my list, I would add simplification of pilot training. I am still uncertain as to what happens when you send a pilot to group (but have a delay) and still disband/withdraw the airgroup. I know sending pilots to TRACOM will speed up and increase the EXP of pilots that are being trained but I am not sure by how much. As far as I know, as the war progresses, pilots come out better trained anyway.

RichardAckermann is right. If there is ever a new version of the game, it still would have to be fun. I started another thread about the level of detail some people want by asking about the role of the player. Overall, I would mostly want to see UI improvements and less clicking to accomplish tasks. I really like some of the mods and I would want to see something similar in a future release. The squadron, ship and unit patches are amazing! And the Bellum Pacifica map is the best looking expression of the original map I have seen so far! As I mentioned before, I think the only major game change I would really want would be fully animated battle sequences as an expression of the background die rolls. I would love to watch dive bombers flying in formation, then dropping on to carriers, or battleships maneuvering to get in the best shot with hits and misses based on the die roll. Would this be easy? No! Especially a highly detailed and compelling sequence. I know there are players that would see it as unnecessary, but to me it breaks up the tedium of staring at the map.

< Message edited by Rogue187 -- 2/9/2018 12:59:11 PM >

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/9/2018 12:48:40 PM   
Macclan5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rogue187

I know sending pilots to TRACOM will speed up and increase the EXP of pilots that are being trained but I am not sure by how much. As far as I know, as the war progresses, pilots come out better trained anyway.


I know sending pilots to TRACOM will speed up = YES

and increase the EXP of pilots = NO

Oft debated topic and even if you think you know it - veterns provide other new insights.

The War room has a great many fantastic threads in this.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/9/2018 2:41:08 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GaryChildress

A couple other things for the wish list:

1. The ability to add new nations to the list of combatants, including the ability to include more than one Axis nation.

2. The ability to edit the random name generation of pilots so that newly added countries can have their pilots appropriately named.


Like these ideas.


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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/10/2018 12:06:13 PM   
LeeChard

 

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I never watch combat animations but what Rogue187 describes would be fun for me.
It seems like it would be a massively challenging program.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/10/2018 12:10:02 PM   
Yaab


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A dedicated CAS mission which would exclude 2Es and 4Es bombers from ground attack in combat hexes. Fighter, fighter-bombers, Light bombers and dive bombers would be the only elligible types to perform CAS mission in combat hexes.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/10/2018 1:40:15 PM   
RichardAckermann

 

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Excellent idea. High altitude LCU bombing without friendly fire always seemed a bit strange.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/12/2018 7:22:08 AM   
Barb


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"Ground Interdiction" as a new type of mission for medium/heavy bombers - that should include a new type of Industry/Base/Infrastructure/whatever. Majority of the missions of the Medium bombers were to attack these target types (Rail sidings, stations, railyards, rail repair shops, bridges, river ports, etc.) with objective of limiting supply flow/troop movements without direct effect of front-line troops. Also river barge/coastal traffic should be modeled (that is where all those B-25D1/G/H/J were used most. Bigger ships were rare) somehow.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/12/2018 4:18:49 PM   
RichardAckermann

 

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Thanks Rogue187! The hyperlink idea for the combat and operations reports was great. I didn't expect it, but I do heavily rely on it ever since built.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/12/2018 10:35:28 PM   
Kull


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It would be kind of cool if the experience/skill type numbers for ships and LCUs (and their commanders) could display the same colors used to identify a change in pilot skills (both last turn and current month).

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/13/2018 8:58:38 AM   
Barb


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AND Air to Surface ROCKETS!!! British RP-3 as well as US 3in FFAR and 5in FFAR/HVAR.
Napalm :)

Vary bomb load and range for planes - more fuel = less bombs, less fuel = more bombs. Chance to pick up several standard loads - Para-frag containers/incendiary mix/etc... (un)jettisonable bomb bay tanks...

Also not to have every squad in hex to fire AA on aircraft attacking just portion of the line/airfield/port would help a lot :)

As for the other things... Could torpedoes be made devices built in a way Mines are? :D
Could Subs use also Mk.18 "Electric" or Mk.27 "Cutie" instead of all Mk.14 "Steam" torpedoes? Could be then incorporated in to "located sub/search abandoned" with higher probability for Mk.14, less for Mk.18.
With a chance to fire Mk.27 at the ASW ship attacking sub... omňomňomňom (munch)

< Message edited by Barb -- 2/13/2018 9:06:39 AM >


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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/13/2018 12:08:42 PM   
urtel


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quote:

The single greatest thing that could be done for this game is changing the orders entry format from IGOUGO to WEGO. Both players could work on their turns simultaneously and then the orders files would be read by the engine to resolve the turn, create the animation movie, combat reports, etc. This could also better leave open options for having more than 2 players.


I can't believe crazy PVP community in this forum skip this gem, I expected 100s of +1 ??!

Guys think about it, this will short all games for at last 30% time plus it will put effect of HQ coordiantion on table ( assuming different player will play different high commands)!

And do you know what is best it can be done in this game version! As relative experienced programmer I think this is double as one man effort in time 2-4 months, with almost no changes to actual game code.

Here is how I will do it (but it can be better ways this is just from head):

- New game will be setup as part of this site/Forum using already give forum credentials for all authorization thing
- In that setup(one page formula r) it will be setup who are players and which high command HQ they command, with maybe some more options like main player per side who can change this HQ assignments while game is in progress

- Then script on server will make new folder with structure which will allow every player upload they save game file, simple upload interface, forum already have that

- After every save game upload script will be run to check are all players ( using setup from step 1) pushed they save games if that is done then script will make new save game(master) pulling from all posted save games only data(commands) which are related to HQs(including sub HQs off curse) that player command – as I am aware all units/air groups/ships belong to some HQ and that data exists in all save game files, if needed we can make new HQ for industry and things like that and locate some player to it. This script can be open source so everyone can check it no have cheat or anything, it doing relative simple job take x amount of data from file a(filtered by some ID) and put in file b. Off course programmer who make script need to know structure of data in save game files. Then all players get info that new save game file is available ( forum notification), they download file play units they command and upload next turn.
Every player can transfer unit from it command to some other and that unit then can''t be used until next turn, which is good your team need to think in advance and you will be penalize if you not done that in advance.

- if master save file need to be encrypted ( so you can''t see raw data) script can make different save file for every user using they forum password (or better to say pass hash) so that is covered too.

I think you guys (PVP community) can do this, as some kick start project or pateron or whatever you will found programmer which can make this scripts relative cheep , so you need 2 more things some way that programmer get structure of data in save file ( but I think something like this already exists because tracker use it) and one small effort of Matrix to allow some forum extensions and some space on they servers where save files will be stored. Even if matrix is not willing to do that you can do it on any other server, only I think ppl will be more happy and trustful with official support by Matrix.

As u can see this almost not request any change for game code, but maybe it will need to be done for industry or things like that which I think do not have command HQ.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/13/2018 12:57:42 PM   
Yaab


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quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

Excellent idea. High altitude LCU bombing without friendly fire always seemed a bit strange.


Here is my thread about 2E/4Es flying CAS.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4343121&mpage=1&key=

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/13/2018 1:39:38 PM   
larrybush


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab


quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

Excellent idea. High altitude LCU bombing without friendly fire always seemed a bit strange.


Here is my thread about 2E/4Es flying CAS.
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4343121&mpage=1&key=


But is it not a consideration that the hexes in this game are so big area wise that 2E's would be bombing units behind the front line? Or a least it should be modeled that way. I do agree that 1E would be bombing or strafing the front lines in battles where Forward Air control or smoke is available and realistic considering the forces and such.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/13/2018 1:56:16 PM   
larrybush


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You know, since Matrix tends to refresh existing engines - Just a better notification system would be nice.

LCU's, Task Forces use a blue notification when checked (yeah I know another mouse click, although enabling right clicking with various instructions might help this)

Let me know when you reach your destination (with a blue Exclamation point) would really be a help for keeping track of things.

Allowing bases to notify you when they reach certain airbase or fortification thresholds.

Being able to set defaults for task forces - like, Do not refuel, always on - Do not load supply, always on, things like that.

Revamping patrol settings to reduce mouse clicks.

Revamping Political points - keeping the ability to hamper too many units being brought in early or unrealistically (it's design intent I think) but allowing for organizational clean up inside commands without PP's and giving players some ability to react to opponents moves if they change the Geo-Political situation.



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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/13/2018 2:03:13 PM   
RichardAckermann

 

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Very interesting reading. For now I experiment with penalizing bombing above 1000 feet for hexes that are contested. Larger slower craft like 2E & 4E bombers are more easy to hit, especially by the "contact bullet" AA type. (I use HE-shrapnel / VT fuse and contact-types for AA shells)
The results are quite encouraging, the A2A level on the europe eastern front has dropped, as it was in RL, while smaller fighters and FB/DB gained value in ground support, larger craft lost value in frontline ground support.
LRCAP duels for air superiority are now too at lower altitudes.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/14/2018 10:24:59 PM   
ericv

 

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quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: ericv
I would like to be able to select a bunch of units at the same time (airgroups, LCU's, bases) and with the help of filters, make a subselection and set all kinds of parameters en masse in this subset. That would do away with much of the unnecessary clicking



I already coded a right click LCU move that does only move/follow units attached to the same HQ. So you can move around "grouped together" LCUs. LCU Target planning is also right click set for all in hex.
For other things...most of the item lists (ships,bases,LCU) are quite long. That will make a multi selection difficult. Do you have examples on what commands you want to issue? Maybe I come across a way to at least work into the right direction.


Certainly I can give some examples:
-LCU's :
setting preparation target,destination etc for a group of units at the same time, when the units are in the same hex, or have the same HQ, filters like that.

examples :
All I Army Corps units prep for such and such target.
All 6th Army infantry units set to rest.
All Southwest Pacific tank units set to pursuit.

I think what also would be helpful is the concept of a Taskforce for LCU's. LCU's should then be able to join this (land)-TF. The parameters of this Taskforce will automatically be inherited by the units that are part of it : Destination, combat mode, target preparation etc. Moving and handling big stacks of units will really be a lot easier that way I imagine.

The sole function of this TF would just be managing the setting of its subordinate units in a more manageable way. The actual game-mechanics would be left unchanged.

-airgroups :
setting the group mission, training mission, patrol levels, height, max range etc. all at the same time for units under a certain HQ or of a certain type.
I was thinking of all 'static-restricted' fighter squadrons for instance, or all units under 'V Bomber command' control. Filter like that.

For example : It would be really helpful if,at the start of the game, I could set all the fighter squadrons that are restricted static to training, escort, 15.000 feet, max range 1. etc just by setting the parameters of one of these fighter units, and then press "set all restricted fighter groups the same" It would save a lot of clicking.

I do love this game, and the micromanagement-aspect of it is truly great, but sometimes it's just a LOT of unnecessary clicking.

I don't know if that made any sense.


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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/16/2018 3:05:49 PM   
Yaab


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Micromanagement should naturally progress to nanomanagement...

< Message edited by Yaab -- 2/16/2018 3:06:26 PM >

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/16/2018 4:48:08 PM   
Zorch

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yaab

Micromanagement should naturally progress to nanomanagement...

Ninny Management is already a reality.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/17/2018 8:29:47 AM   
RichardAckermann

 

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The management would really benefit from some form of grouping together. But that can be tricky. Especially for things like airforce. Sometimes you will want to set orders along with target hex, range, altitude, and mission percentages. Sometimes it will be necessary to exclude 1 or more of these when assigning mission profiles. And all of a sudden, you got a lot of switches to click to get what you want.

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RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/17/2018 5:32:38 PM   
jc4751

 

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I just got into playing WITP:AE recently, after wanting to get back to a "deeper" experience than what other titles on the market manage. (I played Pacific War to death, and put a considerable amount of time in on the original WITP)

However...

What strikes me most obviously about the game itself is just the sheer volume of information and options to manage. This is great, but it is also a double-edged sword of taking up a lot of time to manage the war in a competent manner. The problem is that we're living in a day and age when AI programming techniques have improved considerably, and can handle a lot of basic operations for the player. Need to defend an area? Give control over a corps to the AI, along with the objective, and let it arrange forces and cover the line. This generally works fairly well in HoI4, for example.

Additionally, the game really needs some streamlining and a good working over from a professional User Experience/User Interface designer. I'm not talking about just a basic interface cleanup, but a keen eye as to what really is useful for a player and what needs to be abstracted out/automated. Usability testing would go a long way here.

That said, any redesign would also need to be careful not to remove what makes the game such a great experience - the size and scope of being able to capture the war at a high level of detail, as well as the ability to "geek out" with the various ships, planes, and units. This is something which is sorely missing from something like HoI4, for example - yeah, you can fight WW2 in 20 hours or less, but there's not the same depth and detail.

Basically, I think I would want the ability to simply be able to play the game more quickly, by helping me focus on the decisions I need to make, as opposed to micromanaging every variable that goes into those decisions.

(in reply to RichardAckermann)
Post #: 119
RE: What would you want in War in the Pacific 3? - 2/17/2018 5:48:07 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

Basically, I think I would want the ability to simply be able to play the game more quickly, by helping me focus on the decisions I need to make, as opposed to micromanaging every variable that goes into those decisions.


And that is an entirely different game.

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(in reply to jc4751)
Post #: 120
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