US Navy AI Needs Improvement

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ikrananka
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US Navy AI Needs Improvement

Post by ikrananka »

1939 campaign game playing as the Axis versus the AI.

Rather disappointed with the way the AI deployed the US Navy in my campaign playthrough. I managed to achieve dominance of the Atlantic, having destroyed the Royal Navy and most of the US Navy. I then setup a screen with my fleet covering the approaches to France, the English Channel and Ireland as shown below. This screen was sufficient to stop ALL attempts by the AI to send US units to invade the territory the Axis held.

Initially, the AI managed to slip one AVL through and land in France. All other AVLs in the group were destroyed by the naval units in my screen. I was surprised to note that each AVL convoy was not accompanied by any protective units (e.g. BB, CA etc.). Although at this stage in the game the US may well have not yet managed to build any to replace their losses. Later, more groups of AVL craft bumped into my screen, always heading for the English Channel and again these were easily destroyed by the units in my screen. This was repeated again and again. At no time did the AI acknowledge that this strategy was a failure and switch to another one. I would have expected alternative strategies to have been employed such as an attempt to go via the Med and invade Italy, or head north around Scotland and invade Norway. Also, the failure to provide protection for the AVL convoys is a major flaw.

Late in 1945, when the US received the Pacific naval fleet, I was nervous and expected a major attack from these vessels. But no, instead the battle fleet remained at anchor in the US while easily destroyed AVL convoys kept heading for the English Channel like lambs to the slaughter.

I'll also post a screenshot of the US fleet at the end of the game.

In summary, I would suggest that the naval AI somehow acknowledge when a strategy is not working and switch to an alternative one. Plus, Transport, AV and AVL convoys should be provided with protection when it is available.

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ikrananka
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RE: US Navy AI Needs Improvement

Post by ikrananka »

Here's the US fleet at the end of the game with yet another unprotected AVL convoy heading for destruction at the approach to the English Channel.

Note that the Destroyer is heading to my convoy raiding units located further north and is not accompanying the AVL units.

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Christolos
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RE: US Navy AI Needs Improvement

Post by Christolos »

I experienced the same thing many versions ago...and in case you missed it, it has also been discussed before: tm.asp?m=4229985&mpage=1&key=sealion&#4231846

I'm not sure what can be done to correct this, but perhaps the developers can weigh in?

In the meantime, and if you want to have way more fun, play a PBEM++ against a human opponent.

Cheers,

C
“Excellence is never an accident. It is always the result of high intention, sincere effort, and intelligent execution; it represents the wise choice of many alternatives - choice, not chance, determines your destiny.”

-Aristotle-
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Leadwieght
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RE: US Navy AI Needs Improvement

Post by Leadwieght »

I have to agree with Chistolos--much better vs. a human in PBEM. Much as I love this game, the naval AI is pretty weak and a successful Sealion seems to blow its fuses. The computer seems unacquainted with the need to provide naval escort for LR Amphibs across the Atlantic. Given the chance, it will hold vast naval reviews (either off Ireland or the Eastern Seabord of the US) while the poor amphibs go out to drown.

The AI, it has been noted, can do a credible job of an Overlord attack on the French coast, but I suspect that it had to be highly scripted to do so--lots of specific instructions tied to specific locations (I'm guessing). Once you force it to truly improvise, by taking Briatin, it falls apart. Not so a good human player!
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nnason
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RE: US Navy AI Needs Improvement

Post by nnason »

My thoughts on the AI from strong to weak:
1. Tactically pretty good especially against typical strategies
2. Strategically OK against common treats/strategies.
3. strategically against unusual threats not so well.
4. End Game when losing, poorly. For example 1944 USSR waists units in Finland and the caucuses rather than protecting Moscow and Stalingrad.
5. Allied Navy very poor. Biggest issue with Allied AI navy is it teaches really bad habits to Axis player that then comes back to haunt that human player in PBEM play. Axis always wins Battle of Atlantic against AI. Against decent PBEM rarely wins.



Naval AI play would make an interesting discussion between different developers. I suspect some of the issues they face are: 1. Much much faster movement 2. no terrain to hang strategy on. 3. Rock/Paper/Scissors mantra is much stronger in naval play (sub kills BB, BB kills Sub. Others less useful except as scouts.)

I for one would enjoy a live you tube discussion among the various game developers on AI naval strategy.
Live Long and Prosper,
Noah Nason
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Hubert Cater
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RE: US Navy AI Needs Improvement

Post by Hubert Cater »

The US navy will try and escort transports under the right conditions, but there are some game permutations where it fails. Getting all the possibilities to play out ideally, AI wise, unfortunately requires a lot of time and effort in testing and every once in a while a weakness such as the above is exposed. When I can I try and make improvements but lately time for that has become a luxury as we attempt to move forward on the much needed follow up projects.
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ikrananka
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RE: US Navy AI Needs Improvement

Post by ikrananka »

Thanks for everyone's feedback, as a newbie to the game I just wasn't sure if I was seeing some new behaviour related to the latest version of the game or if this was a long standing issue. I certainly appreciate the difficulties and time required to design, create and test a challenging AI and that Human vs Human will always be much more unpredictable.

Based on this, anyone up for a PBEM game with a relative newcomer?
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nnason
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RE: US Navy AI Needs Improvement

Post by nnason »

Hubert,
Want to make clear I was not complaining. Just observing. Game is great. Support beyond great. [:)]
Live Long and Prosper,
Noah Nason
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US Army Retired
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Hubert Cater
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RE: US Navy AI Needs Improvement

Post by Hubert Cater »

ORIGINAL: nnason

Hubert,
Want to make clear I was not complaining. Just observing. Game is great. Support beyond great. [:)]

No worries and it was well understood on my end [:)]

Just thought I'd provide some feedback and especially so within the context of now that the game is a bit older there might not be any further changes, unfortunately [:(]
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RE: US Navy AI Needs Improvement

Post by James Taylor »

"Much needed follow up projects". Hmmmm![;)]
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