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RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers?

 
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RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/14/2018 3:46:56 PM   
spence

 

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quote:

I've seen a few museum pieces so I totally believe the scale is real



+1 There is (used to be) a field full of captured AFVs at the Aberdeen Proving Ground along with a cool museum of small arms, all open for public viewing. The early WW2 AFVs impressed me cause they were so small - really hard to imagine how the crews fit in them.

There's a Czech Pz38 (forgot what the Czechs called them) near the entrance to the Czech War Museum in Prague. Around the corner of the building is a Soviet(Czech) T34/85. The contrast in size is astounding between the two tanks.

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 31
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/14/2018 4:09:21 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

I've seen a few museum pieces so I totally believe the scale is real



+1 There is (used to be) a field full of captured AFVs at the Aberdeen Proving Ground along with a cool museum of small arms, all open for public viewing. The early WW2 AFVs impressed me cause they were so small - really hard to imagine how the crews fit in them.

There's a Czech Pz38 (forgot what the Czechs called them) near the entrance to the Czech War Museum in Prague. Around the corner of the building is a Soviet(Czech) T34/85. The contrast in size is astounding between the two tanks.

In 1938 the Czech Skoda Works was producing the best tanks in the world, including (IIRC) the one that the Germans would produce as the Panzer III. When Hitler took the Sudetenland part of Czechoslovakia, he got the Skoda Works and a huge boost to his tank program.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

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Post #: 32
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/14/2018 4:31:57 PM   
MakeeLearn

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorch


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn


quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn



I just reported the pic title from the source. I don't see how 1 fits in. The scale makes the pic look Photoshopped.

I've seen a few museum pieces so I totally believe the scale is real, I'm just thinking "FIVE??!!! ". Wow!

Right - one to drive, one to command and use the MGs, one to wave that flag, one to tend the garden on the rear deck, and one to wipe every trace of mud off the sprocket and road wheels.


A Banzai gardener....

Bonsai gardens?


“Explaining humor is a lot like dissecting a frog, you learn a lot in the process, but in the end you kill it.”
― Mark Twain

(in reply to Zorch)
Post #: 33
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/14/2018 6:00:21 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn

Japanese crew??? with their capture Panzer I Ausf. A in China




All five of them fit in there?!


Yeah, its like those clown cars at the circus.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 34
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/14/2018 6:08:47 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

There is (used to be) a field full of captured AFVs at the Aberdeen Proving Ground along with a cool museum of small arms, all open for public viewing.


Its been moved to the Richmond, VA, area.

quote:

In 1938 the Czech Skoda Works was producing the best tanks in the world, including (IIRC) the one that the Germans would produce as the Panzer III.


The German PzIII was a much different tank than either the t35 or t38 produced by the Czechs, although they were comparable in performance. At least until the PzIII was 'upgunned'.

quote:

When Hitler took the Sudetenland part of Czechoslovakia, he got the Skoda Works and a huge boost to his tank program.


The lions share of the Skoda works, if not all, were not in the Sudetenland, but in Prague. When Germany took over the rest of Czechoslovakia they did in fact receive a huge boost to their tank program.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 35
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/14/2018 9:20:49 PM   
geofflambert


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The Chinese also had an older version of a German 88mm flak gun. The Japanese captured some and reverse engineered them. There are some flak battalions equipped with these weapons in the game. I try to put them where I think B-17s and B-24s might come.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 1/14/2018 9:21:27 PM >

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 36
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/15/2018 7:12:13 AM   
Barb


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Skoda Works is located in Pilsen, not in Prague. It was one of the major industrial concerns in the Europe (along the lines of Krupp, or Ford) producing anything from heavy machinery to naval guns up to the guns and tanks for the Army.
LT-35 - known as Pzkpfw 35(t) in the Wehrmacht is one of the well known light tanks used in Poland and France.
LT-38 - known as Pzkpfw 38(t) in the Wehrmacht is the other well known tank (medium) comparable to Pzkpfw III. Their numbers helped to double or triple the total number of medium tanks available to the Wehrmacht at the beginning of the war.
Yet more chassis of the LT-38 were used to build Marder III and Jagdpanzer 38(t).

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Post #: 37
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/15/2018 8:17:02 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

The Chinese also had an older version of a German 88mm flak gun. The Japanese captured some and reverse engineered them. There are some flak battalions equipped with these weapons in the game. I try to put them where I think B-17s and B-24s might come.


I'd have preferred them to reverse engineering the Bofors 40 mm (hey got enough of them at Singapure , at least, isn't it?).

Still cannot understand why Japan has not come out during the war with something more performing than their 25 mm...

In the mod is shall, one day, do, this equipment, the Japanese Bofors or 37 mm Flak find an entry in Japan's OOB somehow.

(in reply to geofflambert)
Post #: 38
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/15/2018 8:19:12 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Barb

Skoda Works is located in Pilsen, not in Prague. It was one of the major industrial concerns in the Europe (along the lines of Krupp, or Ford) producing anything from heavy machinery to naval guns up to the guns and tanks for the Army.
LT-35 - known as Pzkpfw 35(t) in the Wehrmacht is one of the well known light tanks used in Poland and France.
LT-38 - known as Pzkpfw 38(t) in the Wehrmacht is the other well known tank (medium) comparable to Pzkpfw III. Their numbers helped to double or triple the total number of medium tanks available to the Wehrmacht at the beginning of the war.
Yet more chassis of the LT-38 were used to build Marder III and Jagdpanzer 38(t).


"and Jagdpanzer 38(t)"

Other wise nicknamed as the "Hetzer".

Thank you for the punctual corrections...

(in reply to Barb)
Post #: 39
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/16/2018 2:25:53 PM   
fcooke

 

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What is on the side of that Sherman? Almost looks like wooden planks?

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Post #: 40
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/16/2018 3:18:22 PM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

What is on the side of that Sherman? Almost looks like wooden planks?



In the ETO and pacific, wood was sometimes placed on the sides of tanks to counter magnetic explosives..
The Japanese infantry were especially creative with anti-tank devices and placed magnetic mines on the ends of long poles, which they then ran against the sides of our tanks.

Included is the "hook" which was also used by the Japanese when they saw the wood had been applied to the sides.

Our G.I.'s were equally creative in countering enemy obstacles in all theaters as well.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by m10bob -- 1/16/2018 3:22:38 PM >


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Post #: 41
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/16/2018 3:29:01 PM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Footslogger

I was wondering if what I heard was true?

Also, if the Chinese did have panzers, how did they do against the Japanese tanks?





A Chinese Pzkw I.






Attachment (1)

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Post #: 42
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/18/2018 3:41:18 AM   
fcooke

 

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Thanks - never had seen or heard that before......if only they had zimmerit.

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 43
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/18/2018 4:01:29 PM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Thanks - never had seen or heard that before......if only they had zimmerit.



Here is something you may not believe.
Prior to the end of WW2, the Japanese did not even have the concept of an "assembly line", as we take for granted nowadays.
The Japanese "zero" for example was produced in maybe 20 different shops or even barns, being carted around often on a horse drawn cart, and some of the stops were just a guy and his wife who might place a set number of bolts and nuts onto an assembly, then off to the next stop.
Of course you can see how long it might take to assemble things this way.
The Japanese did not have the resources for Zimmerit, or other things seen in Europe.
(Nazi Germany was using television in the thirties to broadcast their propaganda! They were called "Fernsehen".

After WW2, America sent production experts to Japan and helped them get factories going again and showed them how to operate assembly lines.
The Japanese clung to "quality control" of those lines and to this day their autos (like Toyota) seldom show rust, whereas U.S. autos earned the nickname of "rustbuckets" by the mid-sixties.

During the Korean War, my dad visited a Japanese town which renamed itself "Usa", and they explained proudly they had changed the name intentionally so they could stamp "Made in USA" on their goods.
This was at a time when U.S. goods were still considered the world standard on many of it's products.

_____________________________




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Post #: 44
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/18/2018 4:25:42 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 9785
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcooke

Thanks - never had seen or heard that before......if only they had zimmerit.



Here is something you may not believe.
Prior to the end of WW2, the Japanese did not even have the concept of an "assembly line", as we take for granted nowadays.
The Japanese "zero" for example was produced in maybe 20 different shops or even barns, being carted around often on a horse drawn cart, and some of the stops were just a guy and his wife who might place a set number of bolts and nuts onto an assembly, then off to the next stop.
Of course you can see how long it might take to assemble things this way.
The Japanese did not have the resources for Zimmerit, or other things seen in Europe.
(Nazi Germany was using television in the thirties to broadcast their propaganda! They were called "Fernsehen".

After WW2, America sent production experts to Japan and helped them get factories going again and showed them how to operate assembly lines.
The Japanese clung to "quality control" of those lines and to this day their autos (like Toyota) seldom show rust, whereas U.S. autos earned the nickname of "rustbuckets" by the mid-sixties.

During the Korean War, my dad visited a Japanese town which renamed itself "Usa", and they explained proudly they had changed the name intentionally so they could stamp "Made in USA" on their goods.
This was at a time when U.S. goods were still considered the world standard on many of it's products.

Toyota was not continually great in design. The first Toyotas to reach Canada were in fact rust-buckets because their lack of undercoating vs all the salt we use on the roads in our winters. They also had issues with batteries too weak to turn over the engine in cold weather (-20C/0F or so). It took a couple of years for them to modify their systems to produce slightly different car models for different climates.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 45
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/18/2018 9:03:16 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

The Japanese clung to "quality control" of those lines and to this day their autos (like Toyota) seldom show rust, whereas U.S. autos earned the nickname of "rustbuckets" by the mid-sixties.


Now that's a lotta bunk. The U.S. cars never had sever rust problems until the seventies when all quality went out the window (well maybe with the exception of Ford, rust that is). Much to the U.S. automakers demise. As far as Japanese autos in the sixties, they sold a bunch of crap. Their autos improved lots in the seventies just as the U.S. went downhill. I remember specifically a co-worker of mine who had a late 70's/early 80's Honda with a terminal case of 'rust cancer', my advice to him was to get rid of the car ASAP (just one example). So even though certain models improved some still had problems later than others.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 46
RE: OT: The Chinese Had Panzers? - 1/18/2018 10:19:25 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 9785
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: online
I haven't studied the progression of Japanese industrial methods but having lived through the rise of their quality reputation, I got the impression that started with their electronics when Sony produced the first transistor radios to hit the North American market. I suppose their auto sector recognized the competitive advantage that gave Sony and tried to emulate quality practices. Their labour was cheaper than North American manufacturers so that subsidized their quality programs.

And it turned out that consumers were willing to pay a few extra shekels to get something that would have fewer trips to the shop and would last longer overall.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 47
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