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Air transfer is a pain

 
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Air transfer is a pain - 1/9/2018 3:53:00 AM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 809
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline
You click f10 and select the origin hex. You go to the destination hex and click. Oops, you didn't notice that the base was too full to take everybody. Or maybe there are two or three bases in the destination hex and the program can't figure out for some reason that there is room for all your squadrons, but maybe not all on the same base. Or maybe some of your planes have flown already and they aren't eligible. So you get a message and the field is cleared, leaving you to go back through the process again, maybe moving one or more of the destination bases a hex so the poor computer won't get confused.

Why the confusion? There's got to be a better way than this.

And why do units that have flown even 1% of their miles become ineligible to air transfer?
Post #: 1
RE: Air transfer is a pain - 1/9/2018 6:58:27 AM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1230
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: online
Ho yes it is.

Personally i do not use air transfer at all and use only the reserve in, reserve out.

Even that is a pain because you cannot select all air squad under morale 25 for example and send them in reserve all in one click. You have to do it squadron per squadron

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 2
RE: Air transfer is a pain - 1/9/2018 12:23:42 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 1992
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking
Or maybe there are two or three bases in the destination hex and the program can't figure out for some reason that there is room for all your squadrons, but maybe not all on the same base.


For what it is worth the algorithm it uses when there are several bases in one hex is always to choose the one with the highest ID number - usually the one stacked at the top. A particular pain for Germans is that recon air bases always have higher ID numbers!

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 3
RE: Air transfer is a pain - 1/9/2018 12:27:13 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 1992
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck
Personally i do not use air transfer at all and use only the reserve in, reserve out.


Worth noting if you move air bases with aircraft in them overground perhaps a quarter or more of your airforce miles/fatigue etc is just coming from ground movement - not flying missions.

Also if you use the semi-auto move to reserve from within the airbase details the airgroups (probably) do not get the morale boost as they do not go through transfer.

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 4
RE: Air transfer is a pain - 1/10/2018 5:19:49 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 809
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck
Personally i do not use air transfer at all and use only the reserve in, reserve out.


Worth noting if you move air bases with aircraft in them overground perhaps a quarter or more of your airforce miles/fatigue etc is just coming from ground movement - not flying missions.

Also if you use the semi-auto move to reserve from within the airbase details the airgroups (probably) do not get the morale boost as they do not go through transfer.



So if you go to the Commander's Report screen, click on the unit, and then click "reserve" they get a morale boost but if you go in through the air base screen they don't? Sounds like a bug to me.

(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 5
RE: Air transfer is a pain - 1/10/2018 5:25:07 PM   
thedoctorking


Posts: 809
Joined: 4/29/2017
Status: offline
I'm trying to always use transfer instead of driving bases with air units on them for precisely the reason that Telemecus cites but air transfer is such a pain that it is effectively impossible to move all your air units this way. It really makes a difference for the Germans with their fuel and fighter miles shortages.

The way I'm doing it is:
1. move an empty base to the new core area for the air group. It must be alone in the hex (no stacking of air bases at this point)
2. air transfer nine air units from the old core to the new one. If you are careful and lucky, you can get them all from the same sending air base, emptying it out for the next step.
3. move another empty base to the new core area but careful, do not stack with the first one
4. transfer another nine air groups
5. repeat 3-4 until you have moved all air groups to the new base area. Leave one fighter group per staging base
6. Send a base forward to a staging position. This might have to have some fighters on it depending on how far you are moving, though you really want to avoid driving your fighters around since they have so few miles
7. Move the bases in the core area into the same hex (to minimize the number of bomb runs the enemy will get at them)

You could try a few magic incantations

I'm still getting hammered in the air as the Germans in my current game, though.

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 6
RE: Air transfer is a pain - 1/10/2018 5:36:28 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 1992
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
While the principle is right there may be some problems with the implementation

quote:

thedoctorking
1. move an empty base to the new core area for the air group. It must be alone in the hex (no stacking of air bases at this point)

Frequently it will mean the airbase you are transferring to will not have enough fuel/ammo for the aircraft you are sending to it.

quote:

thedoctorking
3. move another empty base to the new core area but careful, do not stack with the first one

if it has a higher ID number you can stack it with the first one

quote:

thedoctorking
6. Send a base forward to a staging position. This might have to have some fighters on it depending on how far you are moving, though you really want to avoid driving your fighters around since they have so few miles

Ideally I would say keep the staging base empty - it means you can move it around to optimise bombing runs and air missions during your turn. But if you can keep fighters in bases further back and stage through it your fighters will be safer from attack on their own bases. But if you do not have enough airbases then this may be necessary.

quote:

thedoctorking
7. Move the bases in the core area into the same hex (to minimize the number of bomb runs the enemy will get at them)
not necessary if you moved airbases into the hex and air transferred in ascending order of ID numbers

quote:

thedoctorking
You could try a few magic incantations

Knowing the right magic words always helps




(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 7
RE: Air transfer is a pain - 1/13/2018 12:00:19 PM   
Snowleopard762

 

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/4/2018
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

I'm trying to always use transfer instead of driving bases with air units on them for precisely the reason that Telemecus cites but air transfer is such a pain that it is effectively impossible to move all your air units this way. It really makes a difference for the Germans with their fuel and fighter miles shortages.

The way I'm doing it is:
1. move an empty base to the new core area for the air group. It must be alone in the hex (no stacking of air bases at this point)

Question: How do you successfully "empty an airbase?" I cannot even get the F10 Air Transfer op to work.
Can you explain? Example; LT Click on individual air unit -> select the receiving Air Base [AB] - what next? Is it a RT click on that AB to transfer aircraft and complete op....thus freeing the chosen AB that can now be used as a forward/staging AB unit....


2. air transfer nine air units from the old core to the new one. If you are careful and lucky, you can get them all from the same sending air base, emptying it out for the next step.

Question: How can I increase my "luck" level?
Nothing else appears to work.


Question: What is "the old core?" Is it the the originating formation?
Once again, is it LT click, or SHIFT LT click, to select, and then RT Click or ??? to effect transfer ~ what?


3. move another empty base to the new core area but careful, do not stack with the first one
4. transfer another nine air groups.
5. repeat 3-4 until you have moved all air groups to the new base area. Leave one fighter group per staging base
6. Send a base forward to a staging position.
This might have to have some fighters on it depending on how far you are moving, though you really want to avoid driving your fighters around since they have so few miles
7. Move the bases in the core area into the same hex (to minimize the number of bomb runs the enemy will get at them)

You could try a few magic incantations

I'm still getting hammered in the air as the Germans in my current game, though.



You are exactly right TDK - it is worse than totally frustrating.

The only other reference I can find is this one one by Crackaces =
Crackaces - Air Transfer Ops.
Whilst it is more comprehensive, it still does not clearly contain images with those vital mouse clicking annotations.

Perhaps it is time for a more comprehensive visual guide to reduce cardiac stress.....


(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 8
RE: Air transfer is a pain - 1/13/2018 12:23:44 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3377
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Snowleopard762


quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

I'm trying to always use transfer instead of driving bases with air units on them for precisely the reason that Telemecus cites but air transfer is such a pain that it is effectively impossible to move all your air units this way. It really makes a difference for the Germans with their fuel and fighter miles shortages.

The way I'm doing it is:
1. move an empty base to the new core area for the air group. It must be alone in the hex (no stacking of air bases at this point)

Question: How do you successfully "empty an airbase?" I cannot even get the F10 Air Transfer op to work.
Can you explain? Example; LT Click on individual air unit -> select the receiving Air Base [AB] - what next? Is it a RT click on that AB to transfer aircraft and complete op....thus freeing the chosen AB that can now be used as a forward/staging AB unit....


2. air transfer nine air units from the old core to the new one. If you are careful and lucky, you can get them all from the same sending air base, emptying it out for the next step.

Question: How can I increase my "luck" level?
Nothing else appears to work.


Question: What is "the old core?" Is it the the originating formation?
Once again, is it LT click, or SHIFT LT click, to select, and then RT Click or ??? to effect transfer ~ what?


3. move another empty base to the new core area but careful, do not stack with the first one
4. transfer another nine air groups.
5. repeat 3-4 until you have moved all air groups to the new base area. Leave one fighter group per staging base
6. Send a base forward to a staging position.
This might have to have some fighters on it depending on how far you are moving, though you really want to avoid driving your fighters around since they have so few miles
7. Move the bases in the core area into the same hex (to minimize the number of bomb runs the enemy will get at them)

You could try a few magic incantations

I'm still getting hammered in the air as the Germans in my current game, though.



You are exactly right TDK - it is worse than totally frustrating.

The only other reference I can find is this one one by Crackaces =
Crackaces - Air Transfer Ops.
Whilst it is more comprehensive, it still does not clearly contain images with those vital mouse clicking annotations.

Perhaps it is time for a more comprehensive visual guide to reduce cardiac stress.....




I will work on a Guide Ian’s collect this stuff into a pdf. However .. my AAR “They crossed over the border “ does have pictures of air transfer..

_____________________________

Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kurt Vonnegut

(in reply to Snowleopard762)
Post #: 9
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