The War to end all AARs: Fall Weiss II 9.1, KZ vs Stranger09

[KorutZelva]

Hi,

so nice of you to come. Sit, sit, please make youself at home!

To cap off the KZ SC3 AAR trilogy we will showcase crispy131313 Fall Weiss II mod 9.1.

Both Stranger09 and I have never played it so we go in blind(ish, in my case I read the AARs featuring it) and I will resist my instinct to look at all the script code so that no surprise is spoiled.

Since my opponent is also a SC1 veteran I initially thought I could have a little fun and try to replicate the cookie cutter strategy of that time within the mod and see how it would fared (Likely terrible because it entailed invading Spain and Sweden [:D]) but ultimately, i decided against because it would take the show a bit too much off-road and fail to showcase the mod as it deserve.

I will try to mix in some impression and feedback as well as crispy mentioned liking any retroaction he could get.

==Q&A==

Why 9.1 when a more recent version of the mod is available?

-Because I'm a lazy dad so I went with the version available on the community pack (as updated by steam). Probably still the second most played version I see on the server (after the original '39 scenario from the base game).

Who's playing Axis?

-I am. I have more experience with SC 3 (I think) so it make sense that I take the tougher role.

Are you planning diplomatic shenanigans again?

-Yes. This mod introduce many diplomatic option which should keep me happy. I'll try something I've not previously seen done in Fall Weiss AARs though. So we'll see if it unlocks some decision not seen before. Exciting!

On to the game!

=====

A bit of a chaotic start, as the initial load up is different from the base game. When and how to use division size units will require some trial and errors. Already offered some decisions, the writing is crisp on par with decision from the base game (not all mods can say the same).



What my offence lacked in style at least was made up in efficiency, as Poland eventually fell on turn 2.

[KorutZelva]

Lots of decisions.

Greece subsidy: NO (More interested in currying favors with their historical rivals)
Switzerland subsidy: NO (Not playing defense with my diplochits so I wouldn't be able to protect my investment.)
Spain subsidies: YES (Guys owe us, too big to fail)
Italy selling naval assets: YES (Need cashflow)
Italy boosts airforce: YES (Love myself some air)

France has started a crackdown of communists.
USSR invades finland.

First bonehead move:
Forgot to prep paradroppers for Copenhagen assault. Bombers destroy the garrison but can't take it. (luckily it was still empty the following turn)

First diplohit with Turkey. Trying to patch things up after they got alarmed by our rightful reclaiming of our ancestral land that was in polish custody.

[KorutZelva]

Dec '39

A UK battlecruiser comes sniffing around Iceland and bump into a german battlecruiser! It is quickly overwhelmed by uboats and sunk by the german capital ship.

Some boots have landed in Iceland... The USA is not amused...

French fleet abandons scouting the Italian shore to try to engage the german fleet in the atlantic.

Another Turkey diplohit, but about a zillion away from joining though (still allied leaning)... % increases by diplohit seems lower than in the base game. Crispy can you confirm?

[crispy131313]

Turkey is aligned defensively with the Soviet Union (there is an ambiguous popup on turn 1), you will not be able to pull her into the Axis sphere of influence prior to signing a non-aggression pact which will not occur until 1941.

Overall diplomacy chit effectiveness is reduced as well (you will not get as large of hits) and will have to rely on supporting events. Unfortunately Turkey is the only nation that will refuse Axis diplomatic efforts early in the game, I suppose I should make this clearer in a future update.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

Turkey is aligned defensively with the Soviet Union (there is an ambiguous popup on turn 1), you will not be able to pull her into the Axis sphere of influence prior to signing a non-aggression pact which will not occur until 1941.

Overall diplomacy chit effectiveness is reduced as well (you will not get as large of hits) and will have to rely on supporting events. Unfortunately Turkey is the only nation that will refuse Axis diplomatic efforts early in the game, I suppose I should make this clearer in a future update.

I don't think you need to change anything in that regards. I had already 200mpp invested in chits when that USSR event pop-up.

It's ok... I'm just taking baby-steps, building for the future...

[Zecke]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

Hi,

so nice of you to come. Sit, sit, please make youself at home!

To cap off the KZ SC3 AAR trilogy we will showcase crispy131313 Fall Weiss II mod 9.1.

Both Stranger09 and I have never played it so we go in blind(ish, in my case I read the AARs featuring it) and I will resist my instinct to look at all the script code so that no surprise is spoiled.

Since my opponent is also a SC1 veteran I initially thought I could have a little fun and try to replicate the cookie cutter strategy of that time within the mod and see how it would fared (Likely terrible because it entailed invading Spain and Sweden [:D]) but ultimately, i decided against because it would take the show a bit too much off-road and fail to showcase the mod as it deserve.

I will try to mix in some impression and feedback as well as crispy mentioned liking any retroaction he could get.

==Q&A==

Why 9.1 when a more recent version of the mod is available?

-Because I'm a lazy dad so I went with the version available on the community pack (as updated by steam). Probably still the second most played version I see on the server (after the original '39 scenario from the base game).

Who's playing Axis?

-I am. I have more experience with SC 3 (I think) so it make sense that I take the tougher role.

Are you planning diplomatic shenanigans again?

-Yes. This mod introduce many diplomatic option which should keep me happy. I'll try something I've not previously seen done in Fall Weiss AARs though. So we'll see if it unlocks some decision not seen before. Exciting!

On to the game!

=====

A bit of a chaotic start, as the initial load up is different from the base game. When and how to use division size units will require some trial and errors. Already offered some decisions, the writing is crisp on par with decision from the base game (not all mods can say the same).



What my offence lacked in style at least was made up in efficiency, as Poland eventually fell on turn 2.

like

[;)]

[nnason]

I would like to make suggestion for your AAR. At the end of each of your turns press the "-" key twice to get the big strategy map then press "F11". Then down the road or even at the end you can post these screen shots. I have found the screen shots play like a high level video of the game as I use tab to go from turn to turn. Great way to see the game as it progresses. I also use Greenshot to take pictures of some of the reports but not every turn. Hope you like this suggestion.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: nnason

I would like to make suggestion for your AAR. At the end of each of your turns press the "-" key twice to get the big strategy map then press "F11". Then down the road or even at the end you can post these screen shots. I have found the screen shots play like a high level video of the game as I use tab to go from turn to turn. Great way to see the game as it progresses. I also use Greenshot to take pictures of some of the reports but not every turn. Hope you like this suggestion.

I'll give it a shot. However, I forgot to take any screenie this turn (oops).

=====

Muddy time in february so I go for Netherlands and luxenbourg. My army was still out of position so I couldn't quite capture the netherlands but most of its army is neutralized.

USA is already at 30% from Iceland shenanigans and the weather was muddy so I figured I could save on the belgium declaration.

The UK sinks the offending battlecruiser near iceland. A uboat sinks the understrenght polish destroyer had been rushed to the scene.

Third turkey diplo hit, now Turkey is neutral so we'll see if it unlocks some diplomatic options...

[KorutZelva]

Stranger seems to be going with a good ol' SC1 strategy of the unit spam. I don't think it is going to work as well here. I might get marginally slowed but the exp farm rate will go through the roof. My panzer are itching to get rack up some pips.

Belgium holds at 1.

[KorutZelva]

Hum... I swear Turkey was at 2% allied leaning when I got a my third diplohit... now it's at 0%. But a 6% increase had been announced. [&:]

[crispy131313]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

Turkey is aligned defensively with the Soviet Union (there is an ambiguous popup on turn 1), you will not be able to pull her into the Axis sphere of influence prior to signing a non-aggression pact which will not occur until 1941.

[KorutZelva]

Didn't know you could put a cap on minor influence leaning. I thought it might have been my further conquest that might have countered my gain.

That cap seems a bit overkill though. It already gets pushed away from the Axis by the poland attack and poland conquest and diplohit worth are already nerfed. Even if you manage to extract a slight Axis slant well the first % into the Axis leaning are more representative of economic openings rather than concrete military ties.

[KorutZelva]

As an add-on if you insist on keep to ceiling maybe you can move its removal earlier to the fall of France.

From Ismet Inonu wikipage:

With the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, İnönü chose to be neutral in World War II as taking on Germany and the Soviet Union at the same time would be too much for Turkey, through he signed a treaty of alliance with Britain and France on 19 October 1939. It was only with France's defeat in June 1940 that İnönü abandoned the pro-Allied neutrality that he had followed since the beginning of the war.

[crispy131313]

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

As an add-on if you insist on keep to ceiling maybe you can move its removal earlier to the fall of France.

From Ismet Inonu wikipage:

With the signing of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact, İnönü chose to be neutral in World War II as taking on Germany and the Soviet Union at the same time would be too much for Turkey, through he signed a treaty of alliance with Britain and France on 19 October 1939. It was only with France's defeat in June 1940 that İnönü abandoned the pro-Allied neutrality that he had followed since the beginning of the war.

It's interesting that you pulled this, as in the most recent version I've changed the Turkey popup to reflect the Mutual Pact between France and Britain rather then an alignment with USSR.

In truth the heavy handedness of the Turkish alignment is in 1) my belief that that Turkey is firmly in the Allied camp and never had a realistic chance of joining the Axis 2) and as a result it is necessary to maintain Allied alignment for a number of logistical reasons in my mod. Because of #2 it would be very difficult to sway from this approach. However this heavy handedness is subject only to Turkey and not any other country, which is why I had suggested maybe I should make this clear at the beginning of the game (probably by a follow up DE which allows amble text).

You will see that Turkey will abandon pro-Allied neutrality later in the war if the opportunity presents itself, but more about economics then military leaning.

[crispy131313]

I should also point out that even though you may think that your Turkish investment was a waste, Turkish Allied leaning can increase rather rapidly through 1940-41 due to a number of different events so you are minimizing this effect. Turkey can be strengthened by the Allies pre-entry as well so you are reducing the likelihood of Turkish war entry on the side of the Allies.

Glass half full response.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

It's interesting that you pulled this, as in the most recent version I've changed the Turkey popup to reflect the Mutual Pact between France and Britain rather then an alignment with USSR.

In truth the heavy handedness of the Turkish alignment is in 1) my belief that that Turkey is firmly in the Allied camp and never had a realistic chance of joining the Axis 2) and as a result it is necessary to maintain Allied alignment for a number of logistical reasons in my mod. Because of #2 it would be very difficult to sway from this approach. However this heavy handedness is subject only to Turkey and not any other country, which is why I had suggested maybe I should make this clear at the beginning of the game (probably by a follow up DE which allows amble text).

You will see that Turkey will abandon pro-Allied neutrality later in the war if the opportunity presents itself, but more about economics then military leaning.

See it like this, even in the base game there's doesn't have additional hurdle and it is very difficult to do. Usually when it happens, it's usually late in the war (and usually only vs the AI because of its diplomatic passiveness).

In real life, the UK applied diplomatic pressure of it own which assured Turkish neutrality (in game turn they probably invested at least 3 chits. [;)]). Let's say the allies didn't respond to a (stronger and more concerted than real life) german carrot and the stick approach, it is not crazy to imagine Turkey would have felt abandoned by the allies and things could have possibly turned different. The game is about alternate histories after all. [:)]

Axis had some leverage too, how about a 'handing over of Rhodes island to the Turks' decision? [:D]

[crispy131313]

Turkey can still join the Axis through diplomacy, you just will not make any ground prior to the signing of the non-aggression pact between Turkey and Germany when it presented to you in the game. Afterwards their is no restrictions to Germany diplomatic efforts.

[KorutZelva]

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

Turkey can still join the Axis through diplomacy, you just will not make any ground prior to the signing of the non-aggression pact between Turkey and Germany when it presented to you in the game. Afterwards their is no restrictions to Germany diplomatic efforts.

I got that, mate. Still a bit peeved the prospect for it went from a long shot (from the base game) to 'mathematically possible but really nigh impossible don't kid yourself' in the Mod.

[KorutZelva]

Pushing forward... Belgium fell in april.

May 6th


France still thick with unit, I wonder how much of it is the mod and how much of it is my opponent strategy.

Allies have left Iceland vincinity either to protect england or hunt for damaged subs...

Got a fourth hit with turkey (8%, entirely wasted), because the mod just want to troll me at this point.

Decisions:
Supplies to north afrika? Can't afford it, I regret going for planes now that I see this...
Supplies to Italy? Bah, you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen...

I'll be out of town until sunday night, so the game will be on hold till then.

[Stranger09]

So I also will give some commentst on the ongoing game.

As KZ already mentioned, I tried to slow down the attack from the Germany by a large number of cheap Units. This is possible, as the mod have much more cheap units available. But seems that srategy will not work out. As this is my first SC3 human vs. human game (besides 2 other running games) I have to learn many lessons.