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RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/4/2018 8:19:21 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius


quote:

ORIGINAL: berto


Beyond the vague "security updates to ... Windows Kernel ...", do we have confirmation that KB4056892 fixes the Meltdown and Spectre bugs specifically? Has Microsoft otherwise made this clear?


No. Meltdown 'might' be corrected via a patch, yet to be seen. I don't see how Spectre can be fixed in any other fashion than new HW.


So when can I expect my new CPU to arrive to replace my old one because of manufacturing defects?


I'll get right on that!

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Post #: 31
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/4/2018 10:02:31 PM   
berto


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This:

quote:

It really boils down to – as we said, and Intel pointed out – your workload. If you just play games on your PC, you will not see a slowdown because the software rarely jumps to the kernel during gameplay. Your game will be mostly talking to the graphics processor.

If all you do is browse Twitter, write emails, and type away in a word processor, you probably won't notice any difference. If you do a lot of in-memory number crunching, you won't see much of an impact because again the kernel isn't getting in the way. If you have PCID support enabled on your hardware and in your kernel, any performance hit should be minimized.

If you hammer the disk, the network, or use software that makes lots of system calls in and out of the kernel, and you're lacking working PCID support, you will see a performance hit. And it's a good idea to warn you, right?

It's a given for this particular issue that any slowdown is dependent upon the kind of work the affected system is being asked to do. Gamers will maintain their frame rates, but that's not what this is about. It's about enterprise workloads and data centers. With reports of SQL database slowdowns of up to 20 or so per cent, it seems premature to say the impact should not be significant. If a company's AWS, Microsoft Azure, or Google Cloud bill ends up being, say, three, five or eight per cent higher as a consequence of prolonged compute times, that's significant.


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Post #: 32
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/5/2018 5:53:51 AM   
zakblood


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yes agreed the impact seems to be less than they feared anyway, for most for now, just some more today news,...

Meltdown and Spectre: All Mac devices affected says Apple

Apple has said that all iPhones, iPads and Mac computers are affected by two major flaws in computer chips.

It emerged this week that tech companies have been racing to fix the Meltdown and Spectre bugs, that could allow hackers to steal data.

Apple said it had already released some patches but there was no evidence that the vulnerability had been exploited.

But it advised downloading software only from trusted sources to avoid "malicious" apps.

Mac users have often believed that their devices and operating systems are less vulnerable to security issues than, for example Android phones or computers running Microsoft systems.

But the Meltdown and Spectre flaws are found in all modern computer processing units - or microchips - made by Intel and ARM, and together the firms supply almost the entire global computer market.

"All Mac systems and iOS devices are affected, but there are no known exploits impacting customers at this time," Apple said in blog post on the issue.

"These issues apply to all modern processors and affect nearly all computing devices and operating systems."

Apple said it had already released "mitigations" against Meltdown in its latest iPhones and iPad operating system update - iOS 11.2 and the macOS 10.12.2 for its MacBooks and iMacs.

Meltdown does not affect the Apple Watch, it said, as the bug was an issue with Intel processors which are not contained in that device.

Patches against Spectre, in the form of an update to web browser Safari, will be released "in the coming days".

Google and Microsoft have already issued statements telling users which products are affected by the bugs.

Google said its Android phones - which make up more than 80% of the global market - were protected if users had the latest security updates.

And Microsoft has already released fixes for many of its services.

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Post #: 33
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/5/2018 12:25:39 PM   
pzgndr

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood
yes agreed the impact seems to be less than they feared anyway, for most for now, just some more today news,...


I saw this too at Major chip flaws affect billions of devices . But...

quote:

The flaws could allow an attacker to read sensitive data stored in the memory, like passwords, or look at what tabs someone has open on their computer, researchers found. Daniel Gruss, a researcher from Graz University of Technology who helped identify the flaw, said it may be difficult to execute an attack, but billions of devices were impacted.


Does a computer chip kernel actually store sensitive transient data in memory, and is the kernel hackable? This doesn't sound correct to me, but this is so deep into the chip technology that it's mind boggling. Who knows. I'd like to see more information from a more reputable tech source than CNN.

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Post #: 34
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/5/2018 12:46:04 PM   
carll11

 

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Intel, AMD, Qualcommn, several other ARM manufacturers ALL, allowed the same 'design' flaw to get not only out the door, but stay out 'undetected' for a decade'..........go ahead, ponder that for a while............. then go read up on chip architecture. You tell me, what are the odds?

< Message edited by carll11 -- 1/5/2018 12:52:34 PM >

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Post #: 35
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/5/2018 12:49:26 PM   
carll11

 

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To Pzgndr;
quote:

Does a computer chip kernel actually store sensitive transient data in memory, and is the kernel hackable?




short answer- yes..........I would not use the term store though not as we normally use it, I'd say it this way; the 'call' is made, sometimes even ahead of time anticipating your request for information, it may 'reside' on the chip cache for a bit, when you shut down the cache should flush.
The 'kernal' is hacakble yes.

< Message edited by carll11 -- 1/5/2018 12:54:59 PM >

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Post #: 36
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/5/2018 12:52:32 PM   
Lobster


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It's about enterprise workloads and data centers. With reports of SQL database slowdowns of up to 20 or so per cent,

So how does this affect game servers?

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Post #: 37
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/5/2018 3:33:41 PM   
Zap


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So when should I buy a new computer that will have the new CPU without this bug. i'm sure all the stores and shipping outlets are stocked full of these bug ridden CPU'ss

< Message edited by Zap -- 1/5/2018 3:35:35 PM >


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Post #: 38
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/5/2018 4:21:40 PM   
Mobius


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I think that may be the solution. Unfortunately I replaced my 3 computers last year. Bad timing.

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Post #: 39
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/5/2018 5:08:18 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

So when should I buy a new computer that will have the new CPU without this bug. i'm sure all the stores and shipping outlets are stocked full of these bug ridden CPU'ss


Ouch. This is looking like a multi billion dollar snafu.

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Post #: 40
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/5/2018 5:13:08 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

So when should I buy a new computer that will have the new CPU without this bug. i'm sure all the stores and shipping outlets are stocked full of these bug ridden CPU'ss


Ouch. This is looking like a multi billion dollar snafu.



Yes and no. It's not good, but it is not easy to exploit by any means, and many of those ways that can be used to exploit can be patched. I am paranoid extremis when it comes to security, and while I am not happy this is here, I don't think my hairs on fire....yet

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Post #: 41
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/5/2018 5:31:56 PM   
Franciscus


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Glad I didn’t replace my iMac yet

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Post #: 42
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/5/2018 5:43:07 PM   
zakblood


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seems you maybe didn't read my last post or so?

iMac chips and
quote:

All Mac systems and iOS devices are affected


i'm sorry to say

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Post #: 43
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/5/2018 5:44:24 PM   
stuart3

 

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quote:

So when should I buy a new computer that will have the new CPU without this bug. i'm sure all the stores and shipping outlets are stocked full of these bug ridden CPU'ss


Well...

Firstly all of the chip manufacturers will have to think about whether they still want to continue with whatever current plans they have to produce improved versions of their current products as those will be affected by the same problems. Then they will have to design and produce new ranges of problem free CPUs.

Of course, as with all new ranges of CPUs, they will initially be very expensive until a second generation of those CPUs hits the market and the prices of the first generation chips fall.

So to answer your question - perhaps two or three years?

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Post #: 44
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/6/2018 9:54:57 PM   
KurtC


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This is very troubling. Is it something they should have foreseen?Or is internet/computer security so wide open it's almost impossible to catch everything?

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Post #: 45
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/6/2018 10:13:44 PM   
Franciscus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

seems you maybe didn't read my last post or so?

iMac chips and
quote:

All Mac systems and iOS devices are affected


i'm sorry to say


Yes, Zac I read it and I am aware that my trusty 2011 iMac is probably affected. But although it’s working flawlessly I was considering buying a new one (due to the risk of hard drive failure in a system with 7 years).

Now I will wait a couple more years

Cheers

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Post #: 46
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/7/2018 5:49:58 AM   
zakblood


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seems the effect has been over said, as most won't notice the difference, it seems data centers and certain types or programs only, not games etc, so think this one is all hype tbh

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Post #: 47
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/7/2018 6:31:01 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

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One question that comes to mind; you don't reckon this is a ploy to get people to buy new computers and iphones and stuff? I've always been skeptical about virus program sellers doing this and now this. Just makes me wonder.

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Post #: 48
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/7/2018 8:11:13 PM   
zakblood


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no, it's knocked one hell more money off the shares than any newer sales would have given them tbh

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Post #: 49
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/7/2018 10:38:22 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

no, it's knocked one hell more money off the shares than any newer sales would have given them tbh


There are billions of users out there and stock prices go back up. Railroad Tycoons used to use this strategy to bankrupt a railroad and buy back the stock at a much lower price before it started going back up again.

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Post #: 50
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/8/2018 4:16:50 AM   
zakblood


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atm in the real world tests it's effecting SDD more than CPU tbh, so far in any real numbers

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Post #: 51
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/9/2018 9:48:55 AM   
stuart3

 

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Intel are about to release patches for Meltdown and Spectre.

Brian Krzanich has stated that '90% of processors and products from the past five years would be patched "within a week"'.

Good news for many, but I do wonder where that leaves those of us who have processors between five and ten years old and still affected.

It may be that our patches will come later, but if Intel don't eventually patch my cpu, then the next PC I buy won't have Intel inside.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42616474

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Post #: 52
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/9/2018 11:47:48 AM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: stuart3

Intel are about to release patches for Meltdown and Spectre.

Brian Krzanich has stated that '90% of processors and products from the past five years would be patched "within a week"'.

Good news for many, but I do wonder where that leaves those of us who have processors between five and ten years old and still affected.

It may be that our patches will come later, but if Intel don't eventually patch my cpu, then the next PC I buy won't have Intel inside.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-42616474

Well, the alternative is to have two rigs. One cheap system connected to the net for browsing and email. One high powered system for gaming. This is mostly air gapped to the outside worlds and connects only for updates.


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Post #: 53
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/9/2018 11:51:10 AM   
zakblood


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being doing this for years, have a good gaming rig, which only gets used for gaming then a few none gaming pc's for other stuff like forums and testing and general work

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Post #: 54
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/9/2018 3:04:51 PM   
stuart3

 

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quote:

Well, the alternative is to have two rigs. One cheap system connected to the net for browsing and email. One high powered system for gaming. This is mostly air gapped to the outside worlds and connects only for updates.


My current system, though getting on a bit, is still more than powerful enough to comfortably handle every game I have chosen to throw at it. So it seems a bit of an extravagance to buy a low spec rig in order to duplicate tasks it handles with ease.

I will bear your suggestion in mind when I eventually decide to upgrade, perhaps in a couple of years time. I might retain the current machine for simpler tasks.

The final line of my earlier post was a statement of intent, not a complaint that my rig's performance has suddenly been noticeably degraded.

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Post #: 55
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/9/2018 8:22:17 PM   
Simulacra53

 

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Yeah, probably trying to sell new CPUs with new back doors...

A 30% or even 5-10% hit on performance will have people scream for compensation.
Hell, 30% is huge, that’s not a fix that is disaster...

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Post #: 56
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/9/2018 8:24:43 PM   
Simulacra53

 

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Give people a choice, or give them a replacement CPU / viable alternative.

For me the cure is worse than the actual problem - consumer level.

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Post #: 57
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/9/2018 8:27:57 PM   
Simulacra53

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

One question that comes to mind; you don't reckon this is a ploy to get people to buy new computers and iphones and stuff? I've always been skeptical about virus program sellers doing this and now this. Just makes me wonder.


Economy by crisis.

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Post #: 58
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/9/2018 11:20:21 PM   
demyansk


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I have a 9 year old cpu

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Post #: 59
RE: Huge Intel CPU Bug - 1/10/2018 2:59:02 PM   
PipFromSlitherine

 

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The worst case performance hits are only going to be on systems which are doing large numbers of kernel-switches. Games are almost unaffected. It is going to hit server-type setups more. There is no (reasonable) way that CPU makers could have foreseen this exploit. Meltdown is arguably something which should have been preventable (doing speculative memory reads into protected memory seems a little squiffy in truth) but Spectre is almost impossible to avoid on modern architectures without fairly substantial CPU performance degradation.

Cheers

Pip


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