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A question regarding movement through mountain hexes etc - 12/17/2017 6:39:24 PM   
thecowboysmiles

 

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hey there, i have another question regarding movement points. maybe a bit pointless but i've been reading lots of stuff about how troops, supplies were deployed during ww2. so we know that in toaw troops equipped with trucks can move through mountain hexes, albeit slowly. but these troops seem to be not losing any trucks. this got me thinking that they move through some trail/path in those hexes but because these trails/paths are not as much as suitable for roads/improved roads so troops spend more movement points. did i got this right? is this also applicabe for hexes with evergreen forests/light woods and etc?
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RE: A question regarding movement through mountain hexe... - 12/18/2017 12:00:05 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thecowboysmiles

hey there, i have another question regarding movement points. maybe a bit pointless but i've been reading lots of stuff about how troops, supplies were deployed during ww2. so we know that in toaw troops equipped with trucks can move through mountain hexes, albeit slowly. but these troops seem to be not losing any trucks. this got me thinking that they move through some trail/path in those hexes but because these trails/paths are not as much as suitable for roads/improved roads so troops spend more movement points. did i got this right? is this also applicabe for hexes with evergreen forests/light woods and etc?

A valid question... I guess the only way to recreate and test it is with a... yes, sandbox scenario :)Luckily, all you require is to test it in my Tutorial '42 :) You can modify the map and units to your hearts content.

Klink, Oberst

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RE: A question regarding movement through mountain hexe... - 12/19/2017 6:02:43 PM   
thecowboysmiles

 

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I tested it on "Italian Front-Strafexpedition" which includes a Italian trucks-only transportation unit. It can move through mountain hexes. I'm just puzzled at this situation, I mean there is NO WAY a truck can move through a mountain if there's not a trail/path present if there was no road. Do you have an idea how this is modeled in this game?

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RE: A question regarding movement through mountain hexe... - 12/19/2017 6:13:57 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: thecowboysmiles

I tested it on "Italian Front-Strafexpedition" which includes a Italian trucks-only transportation unit. It can move through mountain hexes. I'm just puzzled at this situation, I mean there is NO WAY a truck can move through a mountain if there's not a trail/path present if there was no road. Do you have an idea how this is modeled in this game?

The truck/transportation unit had the mountain troops icon/ability? And was it alpine or mountain/hill terrain?

Anyway... I got something for you, courtesy of Telumar.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=1603132

Klink, Oberst

< Message edited by Oberst_Klink -- 12/19/2017 6:27:59 PM >


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RE: A question regarding movement through mountain hexe... - 12/19/2017 6:28:29 PM   
thecowboysmiles

 

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No, it doesn't have a mountain troops/icon ability. Here's a screenshot.


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RE: A question regarding movement through mountain hexe... - 12/19/2017 6:31:20 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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WAD - see the terrain effect table. And it does assume there are trails/paths that can't be displayed or considered being roads.

Klink, Oberst

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RE: A question regarding movement through mountain hexe... - 12/19/2017 7:15:36 PM   
thecowboysmiles

 

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erm sorry but this will be a noobish question. what is WAD? (english is not my native lang) and (assuming the terrain effects chart is in the manual) i've checked the manual where does it assume there are trails/paths that can't be displayed or considered being roads? thanks in advance.

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RE: A question regarding movement through mountain hexe... - 12/19/2017 7:29:37 PM   
mccartyg

 

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WAD is working as designed. There are actually roads around the ridges of the Alps. If the scenario designer wanted to simulate the impassible ridgelines he should have included escarpments.

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RE: A question regarding movement through mountain hexe... - 12/19/2017 8:05:11 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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And, keep in mind... there are Alpine terrain tiles, which are impassible though.

Sorry about the use of acronyms, Cowboy. Geoff answered it. As for the terrain chart, I think the document (link to it) I provided clears it up. Also remember the Burma-Road and other examples.

Here's a good read about the war down there:

The White War: Life and Death on the Italian Front 1915-1919
https://www.amazon.com/White-War-Death-Italian-1915-1919/dp/0465020372

Klink, Oberst




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< Message edited by Oberst_Klink -- 12/19/2017 8:06:03 PM >


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RE: A question regarding movement through mountain hexe... - 12/19/2017 8:46:47 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thecowboysmiles

No, it doesn't have a mountain troops/icon ability. Here's a screenshot.




If this is the Mt. Plauris in NE Italy then the terrain is misrepresented. At the very least there should be badlands placed under the mountains to prevent motorized movement. That way the only movement by trucks would be along roads. Things like that are up to the scenario author and not the fault of the game.

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RE: A question regarding movement through mountain hexe... - 12/19/2017 9:27:27 PM   
thecowboysmiles

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mccartyg

WAD is working as designed. There are actually roads around the ridges of the Alps. If the scenario designer wanted to simulate the impassible ridgelines he should have included escarpments.


Thank you. Yeah, I know that hexes surrounded by escarpments are impassible.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink

And, keep in mind... there are Alpine terrain tiles, which are impassible though.

Sorry about the use of acronyms, Cowboy. Geoff answered it. As for the terrain chart, I think the document (link to it) I provided clears it up. Also remember the Burma-Road and other examples.

Here's a good read about the war down there:

The White War: Life and Death on the Italian Front 1915-1919
https://www.amazon.com/White-War-Death-Italian-1915-1919/dp/0465020372

Klink, Oberst





Hey, thanks so much for your answers. I've heard that book before, thanks.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster




If this is the Mt. Plauris in NE Italy then the terrain is misrepresented. At the very least there should be badlands placed under the mountains to prevent motorized movement. That way the only movement by trucks would be along roads. Things like that are up to the scenario author and not the fault of the game.


While I was researching about this topic I came upon your post. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3934029 This (existence of minor trails, minor paths, minor roads) also explains movements through forests, woods, jungles etc, right?

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RE: A question regarding movement through mountain hexe... - 12/19/2017 10:02:12 PM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: thecowboysmiles

While I was researching about this topic I came upon your post. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3934029 This (existence of minor trails, minor paths, minor roads) also explains movements through forests, woods, jungles etc, right?


This is a approx 20km x 20km portion of a 1943 German topo map. The river is the Pripet. This is the Pripet Swamps. Even here you can see trails, crappy roads and paths. It's hard to find anyplace in a 10km hex that does not have some kind of traveled route even in a large swamp. Not saying motorized units can travel the trails but light infantry and cavalry certainly can.




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 12
RE: A question regarding movement through mountain hexe... - 12/19/2017 10:21:47 PM   
mccartyg

 

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Not to mention that it doesn't take much time to blaze a trail or even build a road over a swamp. To bad there are no terrain editing scripts included in the new version. So that airfields, secondary roads, railways, bridges, etc. could be constructed during play.

< Message edited by mccartyg -- 12/19/2017 10:29:10 PM >

(in reply to Lobster)
Post #: 13
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