Simple Newpe Question - Tenders

[jbdenney]

I am sure this has been answered before but I have not been able to find it.

I know that to maintain a minefield the ship cannot be in a TF. Just exiting in the hex maitains the minefield.

But what about a seaplane tender? To act as a seaplane base does the tender have to be in a TF or just present in the base? Also can it be a seaplane base in a non-base hex, and if so does it stay in a TF which remains on station?

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: jbdenney

But what about a seaplane tender? To act as a seaplane base does the tender have to be in a TF or just present in the base? Also can it be a seaplane base in a non-base hex, and if so does it stay in a TF which remains on station?

Just present. FP/patrols do not have to be based on the AV. An AV can be anywhere even in the middle of the Pacific but, and I'm guessing as I've never thought about it before, it can only support FP that can fit on it. Many people find an isolated dot base and park a disbanded AV, flying in patrol a/c to operate from the dot base. Supply is required on the AV to maintain ops unless it is also at a base with it's own supply.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: jbdenney

But what about a seaplane tender? To act as a seaplane base does the tender have to be in a TF or just present in the base? Also can it be a seaplane base in a non-base hex, and if so does it stay in a TF which remains on station?

Just present. FP/patrols do not have to be based on the AV. An AV can be anywhere even in the middle of the Pacific but, and I'm guessing as I've never thought about it before, it can only support FP that can fit on it. Many people find an isolated dot base and park a disbanded AV, flying in patrol a/c to operate from the dot base. Supply is required on the AV to maintain ops unless it is also at a base with it's own supply.

The part about the FP or Patrol aircraft having to fit on the AV is not correct. Some AVs can carry a few aircraft but most Allied ones do not. The number of aircraft they can support is at the lower right of the ship screen. If it can carry aircraft that will be shown just above it. The ship does not have to be in a TF because the aircraft can taxi up to it on the water. The base screen for the base it is at will show the Air Support value of the ship as a + after the base Air Support number e.g. "Air Support - 36 + 12 ".

Even when the base has supply, if the AF level is low the seaplanes will draw supply from the AV and the AV must replenish from the base eventually. At around level 4 or 5 AF the seaplanes seem to switch to using base supply, but still use the aircraft maintenance of the AV.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: jbdenney

But what about a seaplane tender? To act as a seaplane base does the tender have to be in a TF or just present in the base? Also can it be a seaplane base in a non-base hex, and if so does it stay in a TF which remains on station?

Just present. FP/patrols do not have to be based on the AV. An AV can be anywhere even in the middle of the Pacific but, and I'm guessing as I've never thought about it before, it can only support FP that can fit on it. Many people find an isolated dot base and park a disbanded AV, flying in patrol a/c to operate from the dot base. Supply is required on the AV to maintain ops unless it is also at a base with it's own supply.

The part about the FP or Patrol aircraft having to fit on the AV is not correct. Some AVs can carry a few aircraft but most Allied ones do not.

The statement is correct when not in a base which is what I meant by it. Forgot the that, I was primarily thinking Japan as that's who I'm currently playing.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Even when the base has supply, if the AF level is low the seaplanes will draw supply from the AV and the AV must replenish from the base eventually. At around level 4 or 5 AF the seaplanes seem to switch to using base supply, but still use the aircraft maintenance of the AV.

I wondered about that but the evidence in my current game does not back it up. The AV at Milli has not used any of it's onboard supply since it's been there. I have other AVs at similar sized bases, Wake for instance where the AV did use it's supply but not since I shipped in some more. Now might that have something to do with there being land based AV support in the bases as well?

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: Chris H




Just present. FP/patrols do not have to be based on the AV. An AV can be anywhere even in the middle of the Pacific but, and I'm guessing as I've never thought about it before, it can only support FP that can fit on it. Many people find an isolated dot base and park a disbanded AV, flying in patrol a/c to operate from the dot base. Supply is required on the AV to maintain ops unless it is also at a base with it's own supply.

The part about the FP or Patrol aircraft having to fit on the AV is not correct. Some AVs can carry a few aircraft but most Allied ones do not.

The statement is correct when not in a base which is what I meant by it. Forgot the that, I was primarily thinking Japan as that's who I'm currently playing.

The only way float planes can operate from a ship that is not at a base (at least a dot base) the ship must have CAPACITY to both carry AND operate seaplanes.

Unlike the Japanese side, the vast majority of Allied seaplane tenders have NO capacity to carry and operate seaplanes at sea.

They all have seaplane Support, but only the Langley and Wright (4 capacity) have a capacity to carry and operate seaplanes for the Americans and a couple of very small, very short legged Dutch AVPs, I believe the Arend class IIRC, have capacities of one.

All other Allied seaplane tenders must be at a base (at least a dot) to provide seaplane support.

Unlike minefield tenders, which are a special case, they do not need to be disbanded into the port to function, although they can be.

[jbdenney]

The answer about "Unlike minefield tenders, which are a special case, they do not need to be disbanded into the port to function, although they can be." answers the issue that first got me to asking. I am going through the "Allied Setup Spread Sheet" that I found on this site. When it creates a TF with a Mine Tender it always states "Disband" to support a mine field at the base but when sending a Seaplane support TF it does not include "Disband"

So if I get the over all idea - all tenders (except mine tenders)can function in a base either in or not in a TF.
Minefield tenders cannot maintain minefields while in a TF.
Also I assume that Local Minesweepers must be in a TF to sweep mines in a base hex - am I correct on this?

Thanks

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: jbdenney

But what about a seaplane tender? To act as a seaplane base does the tender have to be in a TF or just present in the base? Also can it be a seaplane base in a non-base hex, and if so does it stay in a TF which remains on station?

Just present. FP/patrols do not have to be based on the AV. An AV can be anywhere even in the middle of the Pacific but, and I'm guessing as I've never thought about it before, it can only support FP that can fit on it. Many people find an isolated dot base and park a disbanded AV, flying in patrol a/c to operate from the dot base. Supply is required on the AV to maintain ops unless it is also at a base with it's own supply.

Actually I have a case where an AV, supply loaded and disbanded (in a dot location) isn't seemingly able to serve an Emily 4E hydroplane unit...
Actually is weird, the hydros "refused" to fly any mission for a long long time, even though none of them showed signed of damage/maintenance need, until based somewhere else.

I was very puzzled and could not find an explanation to this yet, rather than the AV was not able to serve this big plane...that sounds weird though...

Any explanation please?

[adarbrauner]

BBfanboy, is that a Yamato or a Nelson in your "avatar"?

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

BBfanboy, is that a Yamato or a Nelson in your "avatar"?

French BC Strasbourg.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: jbdenney

But what about a seaplane tender? To act as a seaplane base does the tender have to be in a TF or just present in the base? Also can it be a seaplane base in a non-base hex, and if so does it stay in a TF which remains on station?

Just present. FP/patrols do not have to be based on the AV. An AV can be anywhere even in the middle of the Pacific but, and I'm guessing as I've never thought about it before, it can only support FP that can fit on it. Many people find an isolated dot base and park a disbanded AV, flying in patrol a/c to operate from the dot base. Supply is required on the AV to maintain ops unless it is also at a base with it's own supply.

Actually I have a case where an AV, supply loaded and disbanded (in a dot location) isn't seemingly able to serve an Emily 4E hydroplane unit...
Actually is weird, the hydros "refused" to fly any mission for a long long time, even though none of them showed signed of damage/maintenance need, until based somewhere else.

I was very puzzled and could not find an explanation to this yet, rather than the AV was not able to serve this big plane...that sounds weird though...

Any explanation please?

I am unsure if you are distinguishing between Float (pontoon) Planes and Patrol (flying boat) planes. The Japanese AVs might only be able to carry/operate FP types as opposed to gigantic 4E aircraft like the Emily and Mavis. They should be able to support the big patrol aircraft while in a port.

On the other issue about whether a seaplane draws from an AV or the base, I suggest that either the presence of an airfield and wheels on some seaplanes (true amphib capability - means they can taxi up a ramp onto land) or auto-replenishment of tenders that affects what your are seeing in AV or base supply usage.

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

BBfanboy, is that a Yamato or a Nelson in your "avatar"?

French BC Strasbourg.

Oh yeah, ok thanks. The mast had a sort of pagoda shape in the picture, but have never seen a picture of this of the Yamato. Also, the disposition of all the guns on the bow pointed to a Nelson design, even though the must appeared bigger, and the bow itself longer than those of the Nelson, and with a line resambling that of Japanese high sea ships, therefore the doubt; but, alas, yes, Dunkerque class.

[adarbrauner]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

ORIGINAL: Chris H




Just present. FP/patrols do not have to be based on the AV. An AV can be anywhere even in the middle of the Pacific but, and I'm guessing as I've never thought about it before, it can only support FP that can fit on it. Many people find an isolated dot base and park a disbanded AV, flying in patrol a/c to operate from the dot base. Supply is required on the AV to maintain ops unless it is also at a base with it's own supply.

Actually I have a case where an AV, supply loaded and disbanded (in a dot location) isn't seemingly able to serve an Emily 4E hydroplane unit...
Actually is weird, the hydros "refused" to fly any mission for a long long time, even though none of them showed signed of damage/maintenance need, until based somewhere else.

I was very puzzled and could not find an explanation to this yet, rather than the AV was not able to serve this big plane...that sounds weird though...

Any explanation please?

I am unsure if you are distinguishing between Float (pontoon) Planes and Patrol (flying boat) planes. The Japanese AVs might only be able to carry/operate FP types as opposed to gigantic 4E aircraft like the Emily and Mavis. They should be able to support the big patrol aircraft while in a port.

Solution I suspected as well (even though not sure historically correct), but not checked it yet...

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: jbdenney

The answer about "Unlike minefield tenders, which are a special case, they do not need to be disbanded into the port to function, although they can be." answers the issue that first got me to asking. I am going through the "Allied Setup Spread Sheet" that I found on this site. When it creates a TF with a Mine Tender it always states "Disband" to support a mine field at the base but when sending a Seaplane support TF it does not include "Disband"

So if I get the over all idea - all tenders (except mine tenders)can function in a base either in or not in a TF.
Minefield tenders cannot maintain minefields while in a TF.
Also I assume that Local Minesweepers must be in a TF to sweep mines in a base hex - am I correct on this?

Thanks

Yes, local minesweepers need to be in a TF to perform. I set up a minesweeping and an antisubmarine TF with a one hex patrol pattern in the port for every port I am operating out of as standard port maintenance.

The TF get named Noumea ASW and Noumea MSW as an example for Noumea. That way when I'm sweeping through examining TFs at ports my maintenance TFs don't get grabbed by me for other tasks of opportunity.

[rustysi]

Actually I have a case where an AV, supply loaded and disbanded (in a dot location) isn't seemingly able to serve an Emily 4E hydroplane unit...

Japanese AV's will support any water borne A/C within their support levels if supplied and their damage levels are below certain limits.

Also I assume that Local Minesweepers must be in a TF to sweep mines in a base hex - am I correct on this?

No, AMc's do not have to be in a TF to sweep mines in their respective bases. They will automatically form a TF, sweep, and disband 'behind the scene' in the base they are located.

[Kull]

ORIGINAL: rustysi

No, AMc's do not have to be in a TF to sweep mines in their respective bases. They will automatically form a TF, sweep, and disband 'behind the scene' in the base they are located.

No. RTM pages 136-137

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: rustysi

No, AMc's do not have to be in a TF to sweep mines in their respective bases. They will automatically form a TF, sweep, and disband 'behind the scene' in the base they are located.

No. RTM pages 136-137

...and I can see nothing in the Beta changes to say otherwise. ACM can however, but they do consume fuel.

[rustysi]

ORIGINAL: Kull

ORIGINAL: rustysi

No, AMc's do not have to be in a TF to sweep mines in their respective bases. They will automatically form a TF, sweep, and disband 'behind the scene' in the base they are located.

No. RTM pages 136-137

Well that's the way I've done it and I've had no problem. AMc's disbanded in a port hex will sweep mines. Just as ACM's will tend mines from within a base. Don't know what else to say.

[rustysi]

tm.asp?m=3839760&mpage=1&key=AMc&#

Read this and related posts.

[ggeilman]

So I am unclear as to what to do with it once it gets there:

Create Support TF, to Billiton, Home Port: Billiton (Set up Seaplane base at Billiton)

The ship is now at Billiton, now what?