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Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/20/2017 7:59:44 PM   
deskman

 

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Hi,

As a newbie, I find the standard military "Nato-style" icons less intuitive and less immersive than if the icons "looked like" real tanks, soldiers, ships etc (I appreciate others may well disagree with me on this).

I know custom graphics are possible, but is there a standard set of alternative graphics that come with the game - or at least a mod that is comprehensive / covers all periods / years?

Cheers,
Brian
Post #: 1
RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/20/2017 8:27:49 PM   
AstroCat


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I too would love little icons over NATO, and I can generally read NATO "ok". It's just more fun with the little images.

(in reply to deskman)
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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/20/2017 8:45:11 PM   
PoorOldSpike


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You know of course you can get 3D tanks and things if you use the 3D map?
Personally I don't like the 3D map and the 3D icons.
Opts > Map view > 3D
And you can turn the 3D bases on/off with Opts > Unit 3D bases

< Message edited by PoorOldSpike -- 11/20/2017 8:48:08 PM >


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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/20/2017 8:49:57 PM   
deskman

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PoorOldSpike

You know of course you can get 3D tanks and things if you use the 3D map?
Personally I don't like the 3D map and the 3D icons.
Opts > Map view > 3D
And you can turn the 3D bases on/off with Opts > Unit 3D bases


No, I didn't know that - I haven't bought the game yet.

That sounds like maybe what I'm after, thanks!

Time to buy the game me thinks...

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Post #: 4
RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 3:32:44 AM   
PoorOldSpike


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Here are a couple of screenshots I just took from the Bulge scenario in 3D mode and NATO mode-
The NATOs look much clearer and crisper to me but it's a matter of preference..:)





< Message edited by PoorOldSpike -- 11/21/2017 5:54:11 PM >

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 5:26:53 AM   
deskman

 

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Thanks PoorOldSpike,

That is what I was hoping for.

Brian

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 1:14:26 PM   
jnpoint


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I would really like some other icons than NATO - not the 3D units on the ugly 3D map (sorry), but icons that work together with the beautiful 2D map.

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Post #: 7
RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 2:05:43 PM   
budd


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I imagine with all the different time frames of different units that it would be tough thing to do. I'd like a nato cheat sheet for the nato icons, tried snapshotting the ones in the manual and blow them up a bit but it was real blurry.

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 2:40:49 PM   
JPJ

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: budd

I'd like a nato cheat sheet for the nato icons, tried snapshotting the ones in the manual and blow them up a bit but it was real blurry.


If this is useful at all, I could print the icon list in the TAOW III manual (pages 80-81) quite clearly on A4/Letter.

Otherwise, searching for NATO Joint Military Symbology etc. on the web may turn up some lists and printables you can use.

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 2:46:04 PM   
sPzAbt653


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NATO Symbols:
http://niehorster.org/000_admin/009_symbols.html

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 2:46:08 PM   
budd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JPJ

quote:

ORIGINAL: budd

I'd like a nato cheat sheet for the nato icons, tried snapshotting the ones in the manual and blow them up a bit but it was real blurry.


If this is useful at all, I could print the icon list in the TAOW III manual (pages 80-81) quite clearly on A4/Letter.

Otherwise, searching for NATO Joint Military Symbology etc. on the web may turn up some lists and printables you can use.


If you can get the list bigger and clear that would be great, I'd appreciate it. I looked online but some of the symbology varies or is incomplete and doesn't match up exactly to the game ones. Would of been nice to have a nato cheat card linked to the in game help menu.


_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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Post #: 11
RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 2:47:25 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jnpoint
I would really like some other icons than NATO - not the 3D units on the ugly 3D map (sorry), but icons that work together with the beautiful 2D map.

Curious as to what you are talking about, can you give any examples ?

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 12
RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 2:52:00 PM   
budd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

NATO Symbols:
http://niehorster.org/000_admin/009_symbols.html

Hahaha... I did look, didn't find a complete one to match. What did that take, 2 minutes... Come on it's not in color

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
Post #: 13
RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 3:07:33 PM   
sPzAbt653


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17 seconds from the time of clicking to open a browser to the time I copied the link. 17 seconds. I learned these symbols in the 70's on my own. Poor kids these days, modern technology has ruined their ability to think straight. We old guys are so lucky.

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Post #: 14
RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 5:30:31 PM   
jnpoint


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

ORIGINAL: jnpoint
I would really like some other icons than NATO - not the 3D units on the ugly 3D map (sorry), but icons that work together with the beautiful 2D map.

Curious as to what you are talking about, can you give any examples ?



I'm not sure what you are asking about, but I think that the 3d models and the 3d map at times make it hard to see the units. That's what I like about the 2d map, it's simple and it's easy to see and identify the units.
If it's about NATO counters I don't understand them, and in GG's War in the West we got a mod that made the NATO counters to a different set of counters where the icons looked like tanks, infantry etc.
I hope you understand my english.

(in reply to sPzAbt653)
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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 5:38:50 PM   
PoorOldSpike


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Just a thought, but apart from the '3D figures' icons and the 'Flat NATO' icons, there's also a third option that TOAW4 doesn't have but is used in many other wargames, namely 'Picture' icons (my favourites) as in the examples below, so perhaps sets of them could possibly be released as future mods for TOAW4 to cover various historical periods?



< Message edited by PoorOldSpike -- 11/21/2017 6:04:22 PM >


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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 5:40:19 PM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

in GG's War in the West we got a mod that made the NATO counters to a different set of counters

Thanks, that is what I meant, I will go see if I can find them so that I know what you are talking about. Meanwhile, maybe you mean something like this:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4193836

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 17
RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 5:54:08 PM   
jnpoint


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Yes PoorOldSpike and sPzAt653 that's is what I'm speaking about :)
That would be very nice if someone made a mod with one of those sets of counters or something like that.

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Post #: 18
RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 6:35:53 PM   
sPzAbt653


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Ok thanks for examples. This sort of thing has been done, but not to that extent. There are a few things that kind of slow that type of thing down [to put it politically]. The examples posted and linked are for one game, but TOAW covers everything. There are different size units that are covered by one icon. Pixels available are quite limited. It could possibly be done, but it would take quite an effort, and from a volunteer. For one scenario it might be a doable project. For example, see below. These counters couldn't be used for everything!




Attachment (1)

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 6:57:36 PM   
Oberst_Klink

 

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That reminds me about your ingenious Conquistador scenarioand the chap who did the Ancient Greek one!

Klink, Oberst

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 7:20:31 PM   
PoorOldSpike


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deleted sorry

< Message edited by PoorOldSpike -- 11/21/2017 7:24:22 PM >

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Post #: 21
RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 9:21:27 PM   
jnpoint


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I know it is not an easy job. But it is also with a strange feeling I try to play a scenario from the time of Napoleon with NATO counters :)

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 10:57:13 PM   
PoorOldSpike


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jnpoint

I know it is not an easy job. But it is also with a strange feeling I try to play a scenario from the time of Napoleon with NATO counters :)


Although I kow how to easily create pictures and images with Microsoft Paint, I'm a PC dummy and wouldn't know how to put them into computer language to make new mod icons.

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/21/2017 11:19:04 PM   
Lobster


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You don't have to look far to understand why infantry and cavalry units have the symbols that are currently present. Look at Napoleon era uniforms for an example. These symbols have been around for a long, long time. NATO had nothing to do with it. So playing a Napoleonic era scenario would look no different now than it did in 1805. Infantry symbols mimic infantry uniforms. Cavalry symbols mimic cavalry uniforms. The more modern symbols are also very self explanatory. An armor unit has treads. Mech infantry a mix of infantry symbol and armor.

One of the biggest problems with using little pictures is the huge numbers of different equipment used. You would have to have 20x more counters just to cover all of the different tanks. You couldn't very well have a Sherman and call it a T-34 or a Cromwell and call it a PzIV. The German armor alone would eat up all of the current counter symbols and then some. And since TOAW covers such a huge time period I think doing something like that would not be practical. You would have to modify the counters yourself for each scenario because I don't see it happening as a TOAW release.



< Message edited by Lobster -- 11/21/2017 11:24:29 PM >


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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/22/2017 3:09:47 AM   
sPzAbt653


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quote:

and the chap who did the Ancient Greek one!

Ah yes, Rodia and his Pelopenisian Wars [no idea how to spell it]. Sadly, he disappeared three years ago. Hope all is well with him, his sound and graphics mods were awesome.

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/22/2017 6:39:58 AM   
jnpoint


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lobster

You don't have to look far to understand why infantry and cavalry units have the symbols that are currently present. Look at Napoleon era uniforms for an example. These symbols have been around for a long, long time. NATO had nothing to do with it. So playing a Napoleonic era scenario would look no different now than it did in 1805. Infantry symbols mimic infantry uniforms. Cavalry symbols mimic cavalry uniforms. The more modern symbols are also very self explanatory. An armor unit has treads. Mech infantry a mix of infantry symbol and armor.

One of the biggest problems with using little pictures is the huge numbers of different equipment used. You would have to have 20x more counters just to cover all of the different tanks. You couldn't very well have a Sherman and call it a T-34 or a Cromwell and call it a PzIV. The German armor alone would eat up all of the current counter symbols and then some. And since TOAW covers such a huge time period I think doing something like that would not be practical. You would have to modify the counters yourself for each scenario because I don't see it happening as a TOAW release.




Yes, maybe TOAW miss a creative person that GG's war in the west had. I think one NATO counter can be replaced with one picture/icon looking like a tank no matter the type and so forth.

Another question - why is there a folder with 'custom graphics' - it seems to be the same graphics as the rest of the game? or what am I missing here?

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/22/2017 10:38:09 AM   
Lobster


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jnpoint
Yes, maybe TOAW miss a creative person that GG's war in the west had. I think one NATO counter can be replaced with one picture/icon looking like a tank no matter the type and so forth.


I see a lot of NATO symbols in WitW. Not only that but TOAW is almost 10 years old and originally produced by another company. I don't see why people compare the two. Apples and oranges. Also, telling the people who worked their butts off to get TOAW where it is now that they are not creative is a nasty insult. They did as much as they could with an old game and did an over the top fantastic job and will continue to do so. Maybe if you were as creative as they were you would get off your rear and make your own counters.

< Message edited by Lobster -- 11/22/2017 10:40:09 AM >


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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/22/2017 1:38:44 PM   
larrybush


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PoorOldSpike

Just a thought, but apart from the '3D figures' icons and the 'Flat NATO' icons, there's also a third option that TOAW4 doesn't have but is used in many other wargames, namely 'Picture' icons (my favourites) as in the examples below, so perhaps sets of them could possibly be released as future mods for TOAW4 to cover various historical periods?




I think now TAOW IV uses a single graphic file with NATO symbols for all sides. If you change the graphics to use a Tiger tank then the allies will have that symbol too. Have not gone too far under the hood yet to see if each side can use their "own" graphics set.

I think that custom graphics for the German symbology is not doable for just the Germans any longer.

Edit: BTW I'm perfectly happy with the game as is, I'd rather have clean crisp map at full resolution than fuzzy with custom graphics!






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by larrybush -- 11/22/2017 1:55:07 PM >

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/22/2017 5:01:47 PM   
Redmarkus5


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PoorOldSpike

Although I kow how to easily create pictures and images with Microsoft Paint, I'm a PC dummy and wouldn't know how to put them into computer language to make new mod icons.


You don't need any computer programming skills. The icons in the game are just images. You could edit them or create your own - nothing in the game logic will be affected. Even if you totally mess up the images, the only effect will be messed up looking icons on your screen - the game will still work exactly as it did before.

I suggest you make a copy of the game icons (have look in the graphics folder inside the main game installation folder) and play around at modding them to suit your tastes. If you're happy with the result, post it here :)

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RE: Change Graphics to Non-Nato Icons - 11/22/2017 5:33:36 PM   
Redmarkus5


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A few pointers




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