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Ouch!! - 11/6/2017 11:03:03 AM   
Rasputitsa


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From: Bedfordshire UK
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I thought I would start and play a few turns as Axis in the 'Main Front - Italy' scenario, as a change of scene from CoTD.

After the first turn, an Axis air disaster, almost wipe-out. I had put all Axis air units on air superiority, which was probably a mistake, as the smart move might be to stay on the ground with no missions selected and save the air response for later.

But :






This is a very tough result, Axis losses of 9, with only 1 air strength point remaining, for NO loss to the Allies !

If this is a true result and not clouded by FOW, then there is a balance issue here.

Meanwhile the Allies attempted an amphibious attack at SALERNO by commandos and paras, which appears to have been beaten off with some loss (6 Allied to 2 Axis losses), a premature attack, wasting paras in boats, see what happens next.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 11/6/2017 11:11:56 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon
Post #: 1
RE: Ouch!! - 11/6/2017 11:48:16 AM   
Zecke


Posts: 809
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline
very interesting this game i hope dont miss this kind of game; salut¡

(Among those who dislike oopression are many who like oppress) Robespierre better
(In politics stupidity is not a handicap) Maquiavelo better
A people....right¡

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 2
RE: Ouch!! - 11/6/2017 12:02:47 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2317
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zecke

very interesting this game i hope dont miss this kind of game; salut¡

(Among those who dislike oopression are many who like oppress) Robespierre better
(In politics stupidity is not a handicap) Maquiavelo better
A people....right¡


Nothing changes, wherever you live.


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 3
RE: Ouch!! - 11/6/2017 12:10:01 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2317
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
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Even though I set no air missions for the last remaining Axis air strength point, it was destroyed anyway, presumably on the ground, so no escape. Still NO air loss to the Allies, so there must be a balance issue here. It's not a big problem as the Axis air forces were heavily out-numbered and the Axis ground units were almost without air support by this stage off the war, but surely some Axis air should survive and there should some cost to the Allies for totally wiping out Axis air power.






Meanwhile, the Allies have attempted more amphibious landings at SALERNO, which have failed with heavy loss, so not all bad news.

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< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 11/6/2017 12:41:22 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 4
RE: Ouch!! - 11/6/2017 2:20:20 PM   
Zecke


Posts: 809
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline
See (final score)WIPT

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 5
RE: Ouch!! - 11/6/2017 3:27:46 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2317
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Zecke

See (final score)WIPT


Which final score ?


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 6
RE: Ouch!! - 11/6/2017 3:52:41 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2317
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
It would useful to be able to place markers on the map, as the game system only displays 'past messages' from the previous turn, but does not have an archive of earlier messages.






I know that there has been Allied landings at TARANTO and BARI, but it would be useful to be able to place a marker on the map as a reminder of items to remember and things that need to be done. The report panel in the image shows the recent landing at BARI, but this information does not store and, either a message archive, or a map marker would help a lot.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 11/6/2017 3:58:00 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 7
RE: Ouch!! - 11/6/2017 4:27:51 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2317
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
You just keep on learning. In a previous game I was complaining that when units are withdrawn from the theatre, they leave taking valuable combat supply with them, then I saw this :






German 2nd FsJ Divion is going to be withdrawn in 6 turns and is carrying level 3 combat supply, as it is defending the vital port of NAPLES, which cannot be allowed to fall into Allied hands. Then I noticed the 'Combat supply' button in the 'Withdrawals' list, is this the way to reclaim the combat supply before the unit leaves ?

I don't know why I had not seen this button before and AFAIK it is not mentioned in the manual, but the following post shows the image of what happens next.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 11/6/2017 5:16:08 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 8
RE: Ouch!! - 11/6/2017 4:47:11 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2317
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
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After selecting the 'Combat supply' button in the unit 'Withdrawals' list, the combat supply triangle on the 2nd FsJ unit counter goes blank.






In the 2nd FsJ unit info panel (on the right of the image) the 'Combat supply' has gone to level 4, when the highest game level is 3 (green triangle).

The overall supply level in the lower main screen info bar shows (7), it was (17) and a loss of (10) supply points, so now confused as to what this button in the Withdrawal list does, as it doesn't seem to give supply back.

The 'Supply and Fuel Status' panel shows supply consumed this turn as (10), so that equates to 3 levels of combat supply being lost, not regained.

When I cancelled this action, the unit went back to combat supply level 3, but the overall supply status only restored to (12), instead of (17), so (5) supply points gone for good.

Am I misunderstanding what this button does, or have I found a bug. A control to recover supply from units leaving the theatre is a very good idea, but it does not seem to be working.

The fix is, don't use the 'Combat supply' button in the unit 'Withdrawals' list, it is also good practice not to load combat supply into units which are about to leave the theatre.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 11/6/2017 5:14:48 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 9
RE: Ouch!! - 11/6/2017 5:16:00 PM   
Zecke


Posts: 809
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zecke

See (final score)WIPT


Which final score ?

youu....(I men..sorry mean)...youu mean..they mean....youu play very smatrwoman,, dont you?

youu womak..woman sorry; yes..the4 final score that i scored.



(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 10
RE: Ouch!! - 11/9/2017 1:26:55 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2317
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
Here's another minor oddity, when selecting an Axis bomber attack on an Allied held port, in this case BARI.






When the game resolves the action of the Axis bomber attack, it shows up as an Allied unit counter (B17, Fortress), indicated in the left part of the image. The counter set only contains one bomber image, which is the Allied 'USBMBR' counter, but the game does not use an Allied bomber event.

This is not a big issue, as the counter is only visible whilst the game resolves the port attack, but the fix is to rename the 'GERFTR' counter (USBMBR), this counter is not otherwise used by the game, then at least you get an air unit of the correct faction showing, as in the middle of the image.

The right side of the image shows a more appropriate (USBMBR) silhouette for an Axis bomber attack, but it's a first effort and a little rough.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 11/9/2017 4:20:08 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 11
RE: Ouch!! - 11/9/2017 2:16:19 PM   
Zecke


Posts: 809
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

Here's another minor oddity, when selecting an Axis bomber attack on an Allied held port, in this case BARI.






When the game resolves the action of the Axis bomber attack, it shows up as an Allied unit counter (B17, Fortress), indicated in the left part of the image. The counter set only contains one bomber image, which is the Allied 'USBMBR' counter, but the game does not use an Allied bomber counter.

This is not a big issue, as the counter is only visible whilst the game resolves the port attack, but the fix is to rename the 'GERFTR' counter (USBMBR), this counter is not otherwise used by the game, then at least you get an air unit of the correct faction showing, as in the right side of the image.




Keep on, your close to dominate; still learning (me)

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 12
RE: Ouch!! - 11/9/2017 3:38:09 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2317
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
Now on to AI behaviour. This is the first time I have played against the AI Allies, so early days to be drawing conclusions, but this next example is a little odd.

The AI has amphibiously landed units at BARI, which was undefended :






Two Allied units are seen heading North and I move to block them at the river OFANTO, meanwhile I have units positioned to attack the beach-head at BARI, only there is no beach-head symbol showing.

See next post.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 11/9/2017 3:40:35 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 13
RE: Ouch!! - 11/9/2017 3:41:43 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2317
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
This is the next turn :







BARI is undefended by the Allied AI and is re-taken easily, so now the two Allied units which landed there, having moved away from the port are in deep trouble. In other games the AI has shown that it knows the importance of ports and has fought hard to defend them when it is Axis AI, but now as Allied AI it has thrown BARI away.

I feel a house rule coming on.

If the AI is going to do this sort of thing, then something is needed to keep the game challenging. I used a series of house rules when playing against the Axis AI and it looks like something similar is needed in this situation.

After Dieppe 1942 no significant Allied beach-head was lost to enemy action. At 'Omaha', Normandy 1944, and Salerno 1943, the Allied commanders considered abandoning the beach-heads, but that did not happen and naval gunfire was decisive. Naval fire support can reach all parts of a PFE hex (12 Kms across) and break up concentrations of enemy forces, meaning that landing forces can be pinned into the beach-head, but not eliminated.

A beach-head contains 1000's support troops and equipment, even if no actual unit counter is in beach-head hex. Therefore, in reality, an Allied beach-head hex is never empty and has massive gunfire support.

House Rule : No Axis ground attack can be made on a hex containing a beach-head symbol.

Now the problem, the AI has not placed a beach-head symbol at BARI, even though it did when other ports were captured by amphibious landings. To keep the game going, the attack I made on BARI with 26th Pz Division would not be allowed, on the basis that naval gunfire support would have stopped the attack. I was intending to use the beach-head symbol to indicate that a beach-head and naval gunfire existed, but I need to play some more turns to see if the game is more consistent in placing symbols.

The point is, that if the game is too easy, then it's not worth playing and if the AI needs some help, then house rules can provide that help. In this case the two Allied units which left the beach-head would still be isolated and probably lost, but the Allied AI could still bring more units into the beach-head hex.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 11/13/2017 8:55:54 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 14
RE: Ouch!! - 11/9/2017 3:54:50 PM   
Zecke


Posts: 809
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline
you are doing great¡..operaton crusader (AVALON HILL) is the same.

The supplys are questionable; always the panzer and motorized division a full; infantry goes well hunting.

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 15
RE: Ouch!! - 11/11/2017 7:38:51 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2317
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
I have cleaned up a new Axis bomber counter as best I can with only 64 x 64 pixels to work with.

This replaces the 'USBMBR' file which currently shows an Allied counter with a B17 image, but is used in the game for Axis port bombing missions. There are no game actions which use an Allied bomber, as all Allied air action takes place within the generalised air missions.





USBMBR


The attached image is .jpeg, as this is what the forum allows, but it has to be changed to .bmp to work in the game.

This goes in 'Piercing Fortress Europa/Graphics/Counters/USBMBR' and is intended to the match the CHEMKID counters mod.

Archive the original 'USBMBR' file in case the game ever gets re-configured to use it.

It only shows momentarily whilst an Axis port bombing mission is being resolved, but it's nice to have a more appropriate image.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 11/11/2017 3:25:22 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 16
RE: Ouch!! - 11/13/2017 10:08:29 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2317
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
Continuing to explore the 'Italian Main Front' scenario from the Axis perspective against the Allied AI.

The Supply Overlay can reveal the enemy movements, even through FOW :






Playing as Axis, the supply overlay shows Axis supply, but obviously where there is no Axis supply is Allied territory and just as obviously there are Allied units moving unseen along the roads from the South. Allied units are visible closing in on SAPRI, along the coast road, but more are heading through the hills towards POTENZA and along the Southern coast towards BARI.

The British Airborne and Commando units which landed at BARI and then recklessly headed North to BARLETTA have been surrounded and destroyed. To give Allied AI a better chance, I have not recaptured the port at BARI, but that is quickly becoming irrelevant, as the supply overlay reveals Allied units heading for BARI, overland.

There is beach hex North of BARI, which shows no Axis supply, is this an Allied beach-head. There is no beach-head symbol, but the AI has not placed one for the landing at BARI either, also I didn't see a report for a landing on this isolated hex, but a report archive would be very useful to look back and see if you have missed something.

The Allied AI has been reckless, but is also developing a good overall strategy, threatening a wide envelopment of Axis positions.

I can't be strong everywhere, so a line needs to be drawn somewhere between SAPRI/POTENZA/BARLETTA, as BARI is too exposed, but it is nice to see a strategy developing.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 11/13/2017 10:33:28 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 17
RE: Ouch!! - 11/14/2017 7:43:48 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2317
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
I have played a few test turns to try and understand what happened at BARI, where two Allied units appeared ashore, but with not landing beach designated.





This is now Turn 11 and a front line is developing across Southern Italy, whilst the Allies have just captured TARANTO, as expected a port icon has been placed. When BARI was captured by the Allies several turns earlier, no port icon appeared at the port, or beside any of the beach hexes.

I don't know if this is WAD, normally there always seems to be a port icon to show an invasion point, but not anywhere on the coast near BARI.

This all may be intended as FOW, but the manual is of little help, as the game system has changed, it notes an 'Activate Port' button, which is no longer in the game, but causes the port icon to be placed. The port icon is now automatic after amphibious landings, except that sometimes it isn't placed.

Intentional, or not, is leads to a confusion of what is actually going on, which I suppose could be realistic, but is makes it difficult to help out the AI when it's making inappropriate moves and you don't know where it has fouled up.

If the reports were archived I could go back over the earlier turns and see what happened, at present I am saving a load of screen shots to keep a record of all the info panels which appear, but this is very time consuming. A Reports Archive would help a lot.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 11/14/2017 8:05:30 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 18
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