Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition

Post Reply
MichaelU
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:40 pm

Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by MichaelU »

Welcome to the second ever Grand Campaign played by the team of MichaelU and lb4269, otherwise known as Michael and Mike. Our first GC ended in late '43 when our Japanese opponent threw in the towel, and we were both desperately disappointed by this. So we're hoping this one will go the distance, hence the title.
Our team works as follows. Mike, who reads books about naval logistics for fun, handles the transporting of fuel, supplies and troops. He also loves subs, so is in charge of the sub war. He is apparently relishing the challenge of reduced cargo capacity.
This frees me up to handle the surface combat forces, the air war and ground troops. And to indulge my true passion, pilot training.
I can't divulge our strategic thinking yet, as we haven't actually done any. What I can tell you is that our noble opponent, bristolduke, has already thrown down the gauntlet, declaring his goal as auto victory. So, as bristolduke feverishly beavers away over the things that make the Japanese side so much fun, like deciding what aircraft engines you want to be producing in mid-44, we can only regale you with our setup and house rules.

We know nothing about our opponent’s play style, but he seems like a fairly relaxed guy who, like us, in this more for the journey than the destination.

Settings are as follows:
Fog of War - ON
Advanced Weather - ON
Allied Damage Control - ON
PDU - OFF
Historical First Turn – OFF
Dec 7 Surprise - ON
Reliable USN Torps - OFF
Realistic R&D - ON
No Unit Withdrawals - OFF
Reinforcements - +/- 30 days
Turn cycle - 1

We have a fairly long list of house rules, but mostly we just want a fun game where we don’t do anything that smacks of being overly cheesy. We enjoyed our last game because we’d discuss during the game when things may seem a bit silly. An example was when we were feeding Port Blair with single ship TFs, not knowing because of a bug Japanese planes would not attack these. Our opponent pointed this out and we switched to at least two ships in a TF, and suddenly they were being attacked and killed as expected.

House rules:
No strategic bombing until 1/44, by either side, unless it’s the Japanese home islands.
No 4 engine bombers below 10,000 ft, and they can’t bomb troops
No night bombing under 10,000 ft
No silly paratroop fragments drops
Amphibious landings only at bases
No Chinese units outside China and Burma
PPs paid to cross borders
Exception US/Canada and Manchuria/Korea

Only for game start:
1) the allies can't change anything turn 1 (China excepted, and Force Z not sailing to pre-determined doom)
2) Japan's approach must be plausible (These suggestion from our opponent, who likes the idea of a free hand but thinks it can get a bit cheesy. We’ll see how it pans out)
a) day 1 invasions limited by Philippines to Malaya and bases on South China Sea, unless these invasions are already preset
b) no CV hunting for 3 turns by Japan
c) no additional warp TF
3) Only one turn 1 port attack

Aircraft restrictions (which I took from a post by John 3rd)
-No A6M3 on CVEs
-No A6M4 on any form of Carrier
-A7M Sam and B7A-D Grace cannot be operated from CVEs
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by ny59giants »

PDU - OFF!! This will be interested as John and my designs, especially the latest with Zero, George, and Jack upgrades were not meant to be played this way.

Otherwise, good luck and good hunting!! [:)]
[center]Image[/center]
MichaelU
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:40 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by MichaelU »

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

PDU - OFF!! This will be interested as John and my designs, especially the latest with Zero, George, and Jack upgrades were not meant to be played this way.

Hmm, wasn't aware of this. How badly will this mess up the game in the long run? I'd hate to find we get to mid '44 and find some setting we could have changed right at the start has ruined the game for us.
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by ny59giants »

PDU being OFF means air groups go along historical upgrades only!! Most Allied CVE will be flying FM-1 & 2 and some Wildcats. Not many will have Hellcats. Japan's CV/CVL will not have the possibility of the CV capable Jack and George which was a change in the latest version. I would double check with your Japanese opponent before he gets much further in doing his turn 1 orders. This sounds like an oversight that needs to be fixed now as you cannot do so later.
[center]Image[/center]
MichaelU
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:40 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by MichaelU »

Looks like we'll be doing a restart. Still, better to find out now than in three years' time.

Move on folks, nothing to see here...at least not for the next week or so.
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by ny59giants »

House rules:
No strategic bombing until 1/44, by either side, unless it’s the Japanese home islands.
No 4 engine bombers below 10,000 ft, and they can’t bomb troops
No night bombing under 10,000 ft

This is your game, but if I had any questions about your house rules it would be these three.

No Strategic bombing until '44 means neither side has to take necessary defensive precautions. As Allies, you don't have to worry about KB and/or a ground campaign in Australia getting to a point that Sydney's economic assets can be bombed for strategic VPs. No need for you to keep any AA units here. For Japan, he can capture Palembang by end of Dec '41 and not worry about B-17s bombing the Oil Centers. Same thing when it comes to Magwe a few months later. This HR will change the way the game is played for years. IMO, it become more a large scale tactical vs strategic game as economic assets are off limits. I've had this HR, but with the date being 6/43. It took out some planning and worries that should be there.

No 4e bombers below 10k and no bombing troops. I felt this HR was useful when I was Japan years ago and my Allied opponent sent the beasties in at 1k. [X(] I ended up moving huge number of small AA and medium AA guns to counter. If you read John 3rd vs Canoerebel AARs you see Dan using various altitude for his bombers. Japan can use the low altitude layered CAP vs sweeps and bombers to great effect. With this HR you have to not use a very good combined arms stack of troops. In this mod, Japan get the Liz and Rita. Both sides get better and more long range Recon planes. So you will not have to worry about your opponent going after a stack far behind the front lines.

Just some thoughts here for you to consider before the game actually gets going from a player who has seen these HR in his own game.

Glad your restart is going on now before both sides play a few turns and realize the mistake.
[center]Image[/center]
MichaelU
Posts: 285
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 2:40 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by MichaelU »

Most appreciate the feedback from someone who knows the game, and the mod, as well as you do. Will put this our opponent.
User avatar
John 3rd
Posts: 17471
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2005 5:03 pm
Location: La Salle, Colorado

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by John 3rd »

Michael has covered what I was thinking about. Glad for the PDU catch!

Make sure you ALL AROUND the map for new Allied additions. There are BUNCHES!

Best of luck with your match. Who are you playing?
Image

Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.
User avatar
Kitakami
Posts: 1302
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 11:08 pm
Location: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by Kitakami »

Have the grandest of times with this mod. I am currently playing BtS Lite against Falken. I took the Allied side for the first time. Although we play 2-day turns, which needs a different mindset, the scenario is a blast. Will be following this, definitely!
Tenno Heika Banzai!
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by ny59giants »

AE Notes

Engineers: JWE

The “name” of a device does not matter, only the device data matters. Any Eng unit can always build, but if it has Anti-Armor <1, it cannot reduce forts. If it has Anti-Soft <9, it cannot AV. If it is “named” Construction or Labor Eng, but is a Type = 23 (squad), it will not build. If it also has a-a <1, and a-s <9, it won’t do anything but eat (i.e., nothing but ‘bodies’). So there is a matrix of different Eng squads that represent a mix of abilities; build stuff, reduce forts, able to AV, some of the above, none of the above. DaBigBabes uses this matrix (according to our appreciation as to how it falls out) to help limit in-game tempo, by limiting in-game infrastructure.

Shore Party:
Shore Party is a sub-set of Nav Sup. Shore Party devices assist in loading/unloading but do not assist in repairing or rearming. Repair/rearm bases were very far and few between, for both sides, and thus with BigBabes, but both sides recognized an imperative for stevedoring and non-integral lift capability. Thus Shore Partys and a skoosh of code that lets them give an unload bonus to TFs. A Shore Party switch may be set for a Vehicle, such as an LVT-2 Amph Trac; It may be set for a Type = 24 Eng squad, like USA Port Srvc Sq, in which case it may also help build; It may be set for a Type = 23 Squad, like USA Amph Sup Sq.

Check the editor often, and become familiar with all the different kinds of units available. For example:
USMC Pioneer Sq – Squad type – No Build, Yes AV, Yes Shore Party, No Reduce Forts
USN Constr Eng Sq – Eng type – Yes Build, Yes AV, No Shore Party, No Reduce Forts
USN Spec Eng Sq – Eng type – Yes Build, No AV, Yes Shore Party, No Reduce Forts
USN Base Eng Sq – Eng type – Yes Build, No AV, Yes Shore Party, No Reduce Forts
USA Port Svc Sq – Eng type – Yes Build, No AV, Yes Shore Party, No Reduce Forts
USA Amph Sup Sq – Squad type – No Build, Yes AV, Yes Shore Party, No Reduce Forts

Naval Bombardments: Don Bowen
All bombardment TFs stand off from the bombardment target until night - then make a full speed run in to bombard. The standoff point is normally calculated based on the full speed of the TF. However, if waypoints are used and the last waypoint is closer to the target then the calculated stand off point, the game will use the last waypoint as the standoff point.

This allows players to control the standoff in a number of ways.
1. If you want the standoff closer to the target (for any reason) you can use a waypoint close to the target.
2. If you want the bombardment TF to be fully fueled and have all its op points, you can set a waypoint just beyond full speed stand off point and let the TF refuel (either itself or from a replenishment TF).
3. If you want the bombardment TF to delay bombardment for a day or so, use a waypoint with linger option.

There are interactions between the routing options, retirement allowed, reaction settings, and "normal" TF movement. Mostly they are very logical - one just needs to get used to them.

Amphib Unloading: Don Bowen
Don,

This one I did not know. So if you have say some xAPs in your invasion TF then once the APAs have unloaded the xAPs will unload faster? Could you elaborate a bit? How much help do they give?

OK, took a look at the code and I have to admit that I seem to have lied. Not only amphib ships can help in unload, but small beaching craft as well. So my answer a few posts up is incorrect. Empty LB, LCVP, LCM can help in unload. Not by any direct transfer of troops between ships, but by contributing to the new load unload rate for the TF. This is a calculated ability of the TF to unload "over the beach". Empty Amphib ships are great, naval transports (AP/AK) are good, merchant ships (xAP, etc) suck. I'm no longer a member of the development team and I do not feel that I can give exact formula, but the unload bonus can be substantial.

Screensize
Taken from the release doc

-SingleCpuStart : Starts the game in single CPU mode. Switches to multi CPU mode if available later. We’ve found this to be useful on some multi-core systems, especially AMD processors.
-SingleCpuOrders : Starts the game in single CPU mode and stays in single CPU for the orders phase, switches to multi CPU mode for running the turn, then switches back to single mode for the next orders phase. We’ve found this to be useful on some multi-core systems, especially AMD processors. Use this or –SingleCpuStart, not both.
If either of the above are used with one of the -cpu# switches noted below, it will use the specified CPU, otherwise both of these switches default to the first CPU. If a -cpu# switch and one of these -Single switches are used, the turns will always be processed in multi processor mode.
-cpu# : (cpu1, cpu2, cpu3, cpu4) Switches set the cpu affinity for multi cpu systems. It will do nothing for single cores and will default to using all cores if a core is designated which is not there (for example using -cpu3 on a dual core system). We’ve found this to be very useful on some multi-core systems, especially Intel processors.
If used alone, the -cpu# switches will keep the game running on the CPU specified all the time. If used with the -SingleCpuStart switch, it will only use that core when starting the game. If used with the -SingleCpuOrders switch, it will stay in single CPU mode for starting and the orders phase, but will run in multicore. If one of the SingleCpu switches is used without a -cpu# switch, it will default to cpu 1 when it is in single core.
-multiaudio : Invokes a fix that changes audio timing for multicore machines.
-dd_sw : Handles DirectDraw via Software. We’ve found this can make a huge difference on many systems as far as reducing interface lag and making button clicking in-game more responsive. On a few newer systems this can cause some visual glitches and slow combat animations though, so give it a try and remove it if it’s not ideal on your system.

Examples:
-f -px1920 –py1200 for a 1920x1200 monitor in full screen mode
-w –px1680 –py1050 for windowed mode, so that the window is within desktop

Other Switches
-colorBlind : Support for color blindness
-deepColor : Enables 32 bit color, intended for Full Screen mode
-altFont : Enables alternate in-game font (Lucida Sans Unicode)
-w : Windowed mode
-wd : Windowed mode, daily autosaves
-ww : Windowed mode, weekly autosaves
-fd : Full screen, daily autosaves
-fw : Full screen, weekly autosaves
-r : Show Roads
-autosave : Daily autosave
-archive : Put data reports in archive directory
-skipVideo : Skip the intro video when starting the game
-fixedArt : Will not use rotating images

Air Transport
Just to clarify air transport.

It's done very simplistically if you compare it to the naval transport model.

Firstly, a device with a load cost higher than 9 cannot be airlifted (i.e. friendly base to friendly base). Secondly, a device with a load cost higher than 7 cannot be air-dropped (i.e. paratroop assault).

The capacity of transport aircraft is almost moot if it is below 7500. All transport aircraft with capacities below 7500 are able to airlift/airdrop either 2 Aviation Support devices or 1 Squad/Engineer/Device. If an aircraft has a capacity of 7500 or higher, then it can airlift/airdrop either 4 Aviation Support devices or 2 Squads/Engineers/Devices.

So, whether a transport aircraft has a capacity of 2000 or 6000, both aircraft will only be able to transport only one squad.

There are very few aircraft with a capacity of 7500 or higher, and then almost exclusively Allied (I believe the Emily transport is the only Japanese one).

CS to CVL Conversion
After having muddled through the mystery that surrounds the scout cruiser conversions I thought I would lay out what I have learned for the benefit of others. If you are reading this you may have decided the convert some or all of your scout cruisers to CVL's. If you are unsure there are several threads laying out the pro's and con's.

This information applies to Scenario 1, with the latest official patch, V1.0.4.11o6i
You start the scenario with 3 scout cruisers, Mizuho, Chitose, and Chiyoda, a fourth cruiser, Nisshin will arrive about 3 months into the game.
If you decide to do the conversions I strongly recommend that you do it as soon as they become available. It takes 300 days to complete.

The Chitose and Chiyoda are treated as "Upgrades". This means that if you have the default set to "Yes" on the main ship display, when all the conditions are met, they will automatically begin to upgrade to CVL's when disbanded into the proper port. Here's the rub, on these two ships not all the conditions for upgrade are apparent. You may upgrade these ships as of Nov. 1, 1942. They require a "repair" yard of 50. These two ships can only be upgraded in TOKYO. In scenario 1 the Tokyo repair yard starts at 10, you will need to build it up to 50 before Nov. 1, 1942. Leave the two float plane squadrons on the ships, they will upgrade to a fighter squadron (21 planes) and a torpedo squadron (9 planes). The CVL now has 27 torpedoes and the capacity has gone from 24 to 30 planes. If you pull the float plane squadrons off before conversion they will not upgrade and will remain as float planes.

The Mizuho and Nisshin are treated as "Conversions". This means you must disband them into a proper port and click through the conversion buttons. You may convert these two scout cruisers on Dec. 1, 1942. They require a "Repair" yard of 25. Any repair yard will do. You may remove the float plane squadrons before conversion or not. These squadrons do not upgrade and will be place on the airfield at the port if they are left on board. These CVL's have no torpedo capacity but the plane capacity has improved to 30. The Mizhho will gain 2 knots of speed, from 22 to 24. (Racing heart doesn’t fail me now!)

Effects on CAP with large formation/Numbers by GreyJoy
However, I'm far from having understood how CAP really works, however i learnt something from these tests.

Let's try to summarize what i think to have learnt:

1. "fighters being recalled" (so to say "fighters out of position and not able to engage"): What effects this variable is the range of fighters on CAP. 0 range means all the fighters will loiter (sp!?) in the given hex. The more you increase this value (range) the more fighters will get caught while CAPing another hex inside the range-arc set.

2. "scrambling fighters": tests didn't give me a decisive answer but it seems that there's a dice and roll about the chance that those fighters not devoted directly to CAP can scramble. my tests show a % % of 20 out of 100...not that much, so don't rely too much in scrambling fighters. There also seems to be another hard code inner limit concerning the numbers of fighters that can be scrambled...above a certain limit of fighters devoted on CAP it seems that they never scramble (but this may also be connected with the consistency of the incoming strike).

3. "Firing passes limit": we already knew that this limit existed. These tests have only showed me that it is absolutely useless to have more than 300 fighters at 100% CAP on a given hex...above that number the other fighters simply don't engage.

4. "Escort vs. CAP": again we've seen that CAP can be easily overwhelmed. You basically need 4 times the number of engaging fighters to overcome the escort. So, given the 200 (300) firing passes limit, probably any strike with more than 50 escort will enable the bombers to get through without much of a problem.

5. "CAP altitude and efficiency": obviously the closer to the bomber altitude, the better. But there's something more: a GAP in altitude of 9,000 feet between the CAP and the incoming bombers is treated by the code as a HUGE altitude...often enough to let the bombers easily slip below the CAP.

6. "Radar": basically CV/CVLs have radars that gives (at best) you some 35-40 minutes of warning, while surface ships and CVEs give you an avg of 25/28 minutes... often the time needed to get a group to dive from 15k feet to 8k feet (escort altitude) is between 22 and 30 minutes... so be aware that time is not on your side when LRCAPPING amphib TFs....

Per Obvert…
The KB Kate pilots are about 50-60 ASW now, and improving. I put them on 2,000 ft to take advantage of their high naval bombing skill. When the KB is not in action they are at 40% ASW 40% training 20% rest. When it moves I bump that to 50% ASW 10% search as they leave port, with Vals on naval attack 50% search 2k ft. Just for the area around the Solomons where the subs are concentrated.

Engineers and Base building
tm.asp?m=2885601&mpage=1&key=base%2Cbuilding&#2885601

Kamikaze Activation per MichaelM:
Base must have an AF 1+. This would exclude the 'dot' bases unless they are built up.
There is no limitation such that the base has to have been occupied by the Japanese and re-captured.

If the base is in range (21 sea hexes) of TOKYO (base #252), TAKAO (base #330) or SAIGON (base #435), is not located in China/Tibet and controlled by Allied player and 1944+, then the kamikazes (converting groups to kamikaze mode,as distinct from the occasional plane turning into a kamikaze prior to 1944 due to damage) are activated.

Per Don Bowen:
Uses:
Build local minesweeping TFs with AMc at your major ports and leave them there.
Use small patrol types (YP, ML, HDML, even SC and MGB) for local ASW patrol
Escort small convoys, barge traffic, and landing craft Task Forces with the same ships
BARGES:
Barges that carry fuel can refuel other barges (in the same TF) at sea. If you order a barge TF to load supplies and set the destination before loading takes place, and the barges do not have enough range to make it to that destination, 1/4th of the barges will load fuel instead of supply for refueling in route.

For a troop TF you must create a separate barge TF, load it with fuel, and merge it with the barge TF carrying troops.
React Range:
"Remain on Station" means stay where I put you.

"React" means move to attack any detected enemy nearby.

The two orders are contradictory and the game will ignore "Remain on Station" if "React" is ordered. Reacting will clear the "Remain on Station" order so the TF will return to home port after reacting.

witpqs is right. If you want a TF to be in an area and to react if enemy are detected nearby, use a combination of "Patrol" and "React". You can use a single Patrol Hex to emulate "Remain on Station".
There are a few other items involved in the determination to react. One of your TFs might pass, others might not.

Relative strength of the TF and the possible react-to TF.
Relative speed of the two
(for both, as well as is known about the enemy TF, including fog of war)
Ammo and fuel state of your TF
TF Commander's aggression rating (only if reaction is into dangerous waters (shallow, under enemy air cover).
WEATHER: by Labaron
Actually, higly abstracted, the advanced weather model does exactly that. It simulates a big system, and from this baseline calculates the chances for local weather.

The WitP map is split into 9 squares. Those squares represent the big weather systems. The big weather system is a modifier for the chances of local weather phenomena to occur. So, if the square predicts "clear", there is a very high chance that local weather also shows "clear" as an average, but this does not mean it rules out 2-3 hexes where "severe storms" will occur. The obvious opposite happens when a square predicts "thunderstorms". There is a chance for "clear" to occur, but the baseline is set for much worse weather.

So, you have two indicators you can base your forecast on:
1) the weather square, as an indicator for the probabilities of specific weather to occur in a large area
2) the local "mouse over" prediction as an indicator for that single hex.

Both informations are important. If, for example, I see the mouseover prediction for "clear", but the hex is located in a square which predicts "thunderstorms", I lower the reliability of the local prediction.

With advanced weather on, and by combining area and local weather data, you can get weather information pretty similar to the WWII capabilities, with the possible exception of very late war. Usually, for a certain area, I can guess the weather up to 2 days in advance with a 60-70% reliability.


Now: The only thing that switching off advanced weather does, is it reset all squares to "party cloudy", which is one of the least reliable weather systems according to my experience. It reduces the chance for very bad weather to occur, but practically eliminates the ability to predict weather at all. Something I personally dislike.

IMHO advanced weather is the way to go, more so as it reduces the too high mission fruequency in WitP, which is a good thing, but YMMV.


As a sidenote: There IS a slight realism problem resulting from weather in general. TFs, even more CV TFs, moved with the weather and often used weather to their advantage. To launch planes they moved into clear areas, to hide they moved into rainsqualls. Those are tactical details pretty impossible to replicate ingame, and this can lead to more difficulties with weather ingame as it was the case in reality.


As a sidenote II: I have never noted the reported "advanced weather ON means thunderstorms all the time" situations that are reported by some except as the usual exaggerated comments after somebody witnessed a week of bad weather in a specific area. On average "advanced weather" ON results in worse weather than the simplified model, true, but with the benefit of better predictability.

Sweeps & LRCAP by Obvert
Still, if your game allows it, (we've outlawed offensive LR CAP), use less good models on the LR CAP mission, like the Hellcats. The Corsairs are sweepers, only. They are your best in my opinion and nothing Japanese works at better than 1:3 against them in the best of conditions.

Alternate days for sweeping groups. Keep them fresh. Make sure you sweep with 4-6 groups a day though, and the later ones should be more effective. Take on the edges first if he sets them to cover an area bigger than 0 hex. The effects on moral and fatigue accumulate over time, and his pilot quality will still go down while you're getting 2:1 if you don't make mistakes by sending in bombers and giving 50 kills for free with the escorts.

If you use 4Es, make it a hammer. No half way. 250-300 at a time. They usually don't need escorts if the sweeps go in first and if you're not taking on the THE base. Make sure they're far enough back that they come in last (from a level 9 base with good support), not too far that they fragment extremely. But if your game still allows offensive LR CAP with bombing this is not such a problem. Also the strafing B-25D-1s are your best sweepers with a 58 defensive gun rating. Throw 100 of those at him after some sweeps and they're better than than 4Es at punching through. Shouldn't be since they actually have only one defensive turret, but use it while it's there.

Vary everything all of the time. No patterns. No milkruns. Nothing he can adapt to. Don't even use the P-40s. Rear area CAP only. Only use your best fighters on sweeps and LR CAP.

Really though, as mentioned above, don't go for the knockout until you've danced and jabbed for a few rounds. If he can put up a 400-500 plane CAP here, then some other place is not covered. Hit that. Make him LR CAP something. Get the CAP tired, spread out and the service 3 planes damaged. Then hit hard.


Air by 1275psi
I want to step out of the story here, and comment on the game.
I rarely, very rarely have any co ordination issues, or bombers arrive before fighters, or unescorted strikes.

This is how I do it.

1/ I spend vast amounts of PP on making sure that squadrons are assigned to air HQ's in range
2/ I try to never, ever overstack a field
3/ for a big day like todays effort:
I first stand down every group in the game
Then, in the order I want planes to fly, I issue the orders, ie Ogowas' eagles to sweep, then the bombers , I select a bomber group, select its fighter group, always from the same field. I always start closest to the target, working out in range.

If groups are over 10 fatigue, they are not selected!

If groups are under 80 moral, they are not selected!


This, I confidently say, after 4 years of war, works.

CV Reacting by Alfred
Where to begin?

The situation presented by Lokasenna is quite complex with many relevant actors of which very little hard evidence has been provided. Eg exactly which TF followed which, what were the specific orders and reactions, all the enemy DLs, fuel/ammo status for each (all surface and CV TFs) TF, the air power status and so on to mention just a few. There is a lot of data which is germane and I daresay most players would not be fully aware that it comes into play when dealing with naval reactions.

So rather than directly trying to explain precisely what happened here, I shall go through the relevant considerations that apply to reacting task forces. This should be of value because the manual does not do a good job in explaining the naval reaction concept. Having access to all the data, Lokasenna can then see if some anomaly has arisen.

1. Naval reaction is only available to combat TFs. Non combat TFs such as Transport, Cargo etc have neither the option to set a reaction range nor will react towards an enemy TF. Non combat TFs however may, under certain circumstances, retreat away from the enemy.

2. Due to technical coding issues, there is no reaction towards a sub TF. An ASW TF will not react towards a detected sub TF. The ASW TF may engage in combat with a detected sub TF if it comes across it in a hex traversed during the ASW TF normal or patrol movement path but it will not deviate from it's normal or patrol movement path towards the sub TF.

3. There are 2 distinct types of naval reaction. Type (A) is based on seahex range and applies to all types of combat TF, be they surface, carrier, sub et al task forces, whilst type (B) is based on hex range and applies only to a carrier TF. It is type (B) which is meant to be explained by s.6.3.4 of the manual. Much of the confusion expressed by players over carrier TF reacting is due to the fact that both types of reaction are in play and not just s.6.3.4 of the manual.

4. The max react button on the TF screen is misunderstood. Its primary function is to toggle on/off whether a naval reaction might occur. Set the reaction button to a 0 range setting tells the code to not check for a type (A) reaction BUT remember that a CV TF also answers to a type (B) reaction where the 0 range setting can be overridden.

5. A reaction range setting >0 brings into play a type (A) reaction. It does very little otherwise per se. On 14 July 2010 JWE (aka Symon) stated:

"React just means that a TF is orientated to do something, somewhere. So 'react' means 'what to do -if' and the number is how close."

Players who find JWE's statement to be somewhat underwhelming do so because they erroneously ascribe too much value to the reaction button. Probably Don Bowen's comment of 25 March 2013 conveys the concept better

"'React' means move to attack any detected enemy nearby".

The entire subject of naval reaction was much discussed by the devs during AE development. To give a feel for the sort of issues they had to grapple with consider what does a TF with a 6 hex naval reaction range setting really mean. Does it mean reacting


• only 6 hexes from the initial start position, or
• 6 hexes from each hex along the path, or
• 6 hexes from the current position of the TF (including any prior reaction)

The final decision was that it could mean any of the above. For example, what should be the outcome when a TF with a naval reaction of 6 moves detects an enemy TF 6 hexes distant, moves 6 hexes towards the enemy which in turn during the same timeframe has moved 2 hexes further away. Would a highly aggressive pursuing TF commander simply say "Fair cop guv, you got me, we'll stop the pursuit now". Accordingly, it was coded so that the more aggressive the TF commander is the more likely he is to order continued reaction. Conversely, the less aggressive is the commander or the less favourable conditions present for a reaction, the sooner a reaction move is called off or not even commenced.

What all this means is that a reaction range setting of 6 does not mean that a reacting TF is restricted to a 6 hex reaction move towards the detected enemy TF. Nor does it mean that the enemy TF will never be reacted towards if it is located at 7 or more hexes distance. It is all governed by the suite of factors taken into account in determining when naval reaction occurs, and this is without taking into account the ever present random factor in the game. Range is therefore not set in concrete.

6. Unlike classical WITP, naval movement in AE is on a hex by hex basis. The naval reaction algorithm is checked every single hex travelled through. Furthermore, excluding the factors which terminate or prevent in the first place a naval reaction which are listed in point 8 below, there is no limit to the number of enemy TFs that a reacting TF can move towards or engage. Also a reacting TF can switch targets in the middle of a reaction move if a closer or better target is detected.

7. Naval reaction is not dependent on the TF's movement orders. A TF with "remain on station" orders but also given a reaction range, will react and override the remain on station order and return home after the reaction (which is why one should never give a reaction range to a remain on station TF) whereas other movement orders (eg patrol, follow, waypoints) would see the TF react and subsequently return to its previous movement orders. In all instances a naval reaction move is possible only against a detected enemy TF, the higher the DL, the more likely reaction will result.

8. The naval reaction algorithm has the following checks:


• detection levels
• relative strength of both reactor and reactee TF
• relative speed of both reactor and reactee TF
• where reaction entails moving into dangerous waters (eg shallow water, under enemy air cover), the aggressiveness rating of the TF commander
• ammo and fuel levels
• hex characteristics (deep water being preferred)
• damage and ops points levels of ships in the TF
• range to enemy TF
• in the case of a CV TF, the number of operational aircraft on board
• in the case of a CV TF, the number of remaining aircraft sorties
• known enemy minefields
• in the case of a sub TF, a naval reaction will not occur into a medium or large sized port
• and the ever present Grigsby random

Each combat TF with a range reaction >0 set is checked against these criteria on every hex it travels. In the case of a CV TF, it is checked for both type (A) and type (B) naval reactions.

9. The point of type (B) and s.6.3.4 of the manual is to cover the unique combat situation which only applies to carriers. For all other types of task forces, naval combat only occurs when both friendly and enemy TF (or enemy base) are co-located on the same hex. This is not the case with carriers, whose aircraft can strike at an enemy TF or base located in a different hex. Thus type (A) naval reaction is all about bringing the two opposing masses into direct contact whereas the type (B) naval reaction is about facilitating the activation of aircraft.


10. To round off, I'll provide a pertinent example because I strongly suspect the principle it demonstrates exists in Lokasenna's situation.

TF #1 is an amphibious TF.
TF #2 is a surface combat TF. It has been given movement orders to follow TF #1 and has also been given a naval reaction range of 6.

If an enemy surface TF is detected and all the relevant boxes are ticked, TF #2 will react towards the enemy because the follow order tells it to protect TF #1 and its own reaction range tells it to move towards the enemy anyway. Remember a reaction move overrides existing movement orders (see point 7 above).

If, however, TF #2 does not have a follow TF #1 order, then it will not react towards the enemy in order to protect TF #1 but will only react on the basis of the threat/opportunity to itself alone. Most players will not notice this situation because they usually set following TFs at a range of zero and hence any enemy TF is simultaneously a threat to both friendly TFs which are in the same hex.

Alfred


Air Production by Lowpe
Obvert wrote the book on late war night fighter defense, and I was an avid pupil at the time.

In my game against Tiemanj, I was able to put together a strategy that really minimized night bombing, to the point that for the most part the Allies pursued a daytime strategy.

Obvert proposed no 4E ground bombing as a HR. I think this speaks volumes for his planned usage of 4Es. I am expecting early and often night bombing especially of places like Magwe.

To counter I have a strong r&d program and a holistically zen approach:

Irving-s (size 30 x2): It is the first and critical night fighter to get. Many bad mouth it, but in 1943 it does well, especially against 2E night bombers. The Sa version is a marked step up, has an extra gun which lets the Irving fight longer, and has radar as of 6/44 I believe. Both factories will probably research the -sa version, depending upon game events.

France-s (size 30 x2): The best NF in the game. Hands down imho. Perhaps an argument can be made for the Myrt being that it is single engine (but the lack of armor is a telling disadvantage I think)?

Zero NF: (size 30 x1): Carrier capable, and allows for some modest resizing of a few NF squadrons.

Nick D: (size 30 x1): This should insure it arrives roughly in time with the early B29 squadrons. You need Nicks for their sheer volume.

Dinah NF: (size 30 x1): Important to get so that some recon squadrons can be opened up to the NF tree.

Peggy 109-I (size 30 x2): Armored, durable, fast enough if just barely. If I make it this far will become the primary Army NF.

Myrt NF (size 30 x1): Because Pax likes them, also because they seemed to do better than their stats would suggest. I hope I live long enough to find out.

Denko: trash. SR way too high, radar activates late.
RandY: trash. Radar activates way too late, arrives too late.
Judy: cheap single engine and fairly fast, but barely armed and you don't need it to unlock any NF squadrons. Not CV capable.

The best NF are armored, 360mph+, with good and accurate cannons and radar, low SR. Doesn't exist, so we will make do with the above choices turning all 21 or 22 possible NF squadrons to achieve mass.

AA is key. Searchlights are nice and those AA units with them will be prioritized to likely night bombing bases, but radar is very important. The biggest deterrent early is to have something flying that will distract the bombers in addition to the AA-- my preferred choices will be Petes in port, and the Dinah Fighter when she comes along. M-M has reported good results with Randy F and Nicks.

[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Re China, which few Allied players handle well (although Obvert is currently showing how China can be handled) and then blame the game rather than looking at their own play.

1. The commonly deployed MLR concept is a certain recipe for failure. It spreads out Chinese units to every neighbouring hex which is the complete opposite to what Japan does. Every decent Japanese player develops a schwerpunkt which concentrates his forces against dispersed Chinese forces. Most hexes in the MLR have only Chinese units, noticeable being the absence of any Japanese units.

2. Outflanking. Another commonly misplaced Allied concern. The real world problems of outflanking just do not exist in this abstracted game. Supply always gets through to outflanked units. Only completely surrounded units are cut off from supply.

3. IRL units totally out of supply are totally useless. This is not the case in this abstracted game. Out of supply units, which are not in close contact with the enemy, are almost as good as units with full supply in accomplishing many tasks in this game. The need for water daily just does not exist in the game.

4. Unlike every other theatre and nationality , totally destroyed Chinese divisions respawn. Combined with the 12:6 VP ratio, provided a real strategic/operational benefit is gained, no Allied player should be concerned about having Chinese troops cut off and destroyed.

5. In China, the Allied player needs to both concentrate and disperse his units. All divisions must be concentrated with their Group Army HQ = corps. Mass is required to force the enemy to deploy sizeable forces to achieve success in battle. In turn the consolidated corps must be dispersed to

(a) threaten Japanese LOC
(b) overwatch enemy cities to force enemy garrisoning of their own cities to protect industry
(c) force the enemy "off road" which slows down their manoeuvre speed

6. Ultimately China is all about time. Japanese assets deployed to China are not available for use elsewhere. This provides Allied opportunities elsewhere. The opportunity cost for Japan can be huge.

7. A passive defence of China will not succeed. What is required is an active defence, based not on seeking combat but by manoeuvre which threatens enemy positions which have been weakened by the desire to create an overwhelming schwerpunkt. The firepower of the Japanese puppet forces is weak. those units are even more fragile than most Chinese divisions.

Bearing in mind the above, these are starting points for blocking and manoeuvring forces.

(A) Immediately evacuate (includes air force) everything north of Lanchow except for minimal garrison forces at Urumchi/Hami/Kinchuan. The latter two are blocking positions and will survive on Urumchi generated supplies.

(B) Immediately withdraw from Yenan except for the required garrison. If the garrison is provided by the Base Force, you will be able to fly recon missions from Yenan. Otherwise that city is simply a death trap which need not even be captured by Japan.

(C) To slow down any Japanese move on the northern oilfields, the 3 key blocking positions are:

93,34
92,34 (Paotow)
92,38

All three hexes are mountain. The first two protect the eastern approach to Lanchow and the southern approach to Hami. The last cuts the railway and overwatches the enemy bases of Taiyuan/Chengting/Tatung, the latter being an important resources generator.

(D) The blocking positions on the eastern approach to Sian are:

90,40
90,41
88,41
87,41
88,42 (Tsiatso)

These positions must not be simply given away as almost every Allied player does when they immediately start an unforced retreat back towards Sian. These positions disrupt the enemy LOC and therefore weakens any Sian schwerpunkt which bypasses them. Do not overlook the auto generated supply at Tsiatso.

The absolute key Sian blocking position is 88,42. It is the junction of the eastern approach from Loyang and the southern approach from Nanyang. It is the closest position to the Allied supply depot at Sian and conversely the furthest away from the enemy supply depots. It does not make sense, as Allied players reqularly do, to defend in multiple wooded + rough hexes to cover both potential enemy axes of advance and close to the enemy supply depots.

Sian itself needs to retain its good garrison to meet any river crossings from the east. If the enemy bypasses all the blocking positions and elects to undertake the river crossing, not only will it be weakened from it's less than optimal LOC but it becomes very vulnerable to a single LCU being detached from the blocking position at 88,42 to come in from behind and trap the enemy.

(E) Consolidate the Lusu corps around and continue to threaten Kweiteh. Another valuable auto generated Chinese supply source which happens to lay right in the middle of a key enemy railway. Doing so also helps the defenders of Loyang and Chengchow.

(F) The valuable industrial region of Changsha/Siangton/Shaoyong/Hengyang/Changteh is defended by garrisons in the cities themselves, not units outside the cities. In particular, Changsha is not to be abandoned under any circumstances. The units which start outside of Changsha are to immediately be brought back into Changsha to build forts. The auto generated supply combined with the terrain and one of the most powerful at start Chinese consolidated corps means Japan can be bled white here. Destroyed Chinese units at Changsha will get to Chungking before their exhausted opponents do. Plus by maximising the engineers, a wrecked industrial price might be all that the enemy gains ultimately.

(G) For the southern region, the key blocking positions are Pingsiang, Pucheng and 87,56. All lie on the best enemy LOC. If captured by the enemy aim to get new units to recapture them as it is unlikely the enemy will stop to safeguard these conquests.

(H) Two key ports to be retained are Kwangchown and Wenchow. Consolidate forces in their vicinity. These ports can be resupplied by sub (Wenchow is itself a significant supply centre) and provide excellent "naval search eyes" on enemy convoys to assist the Dutch and S class subs.

(I) The blocking positions for Chungking are:

71,48 (also key for Kunming)

81,40 (most of the eastern approach is covered by holding Sian)

76,46
75,46
77,47
75,48
74,48

these cover the southern approach.


By consolidating corps and positioning them in blocking positions it means that it is possible to detach units to close the door after being bypassed. Plus by not maintaining a linear MLR, mobile consolidated corps to threaten weakly garrisoned enemy rear bases can be created.

Alfred
[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Cargo Classes

Type Class Capacity Speed Endurance Where
xAK Transmarine 0/3200 12 11000 WC to Pearl
xAK Harriman 0/5200 12 14900 USA
xAK Isthmian 0/4800 12 13600 USA
xAK Hog Island 0/4900 12 14700 USA
xAK Luckenbach 0/6300 12 16600 USA
xAK Pacifc L 0/3900 12 12000 Convert to xAP…USA
xAK Dominion M 0/5550 13 14600 Convert to xAP…USA
xAK Euro K 0/5600/200 14 17900 Cape Town to
xAK Southwest 0/6410 14 13200 USA
xAK C1-A Cargo 0/4550 14 19300 Convert to xAP in 2/42
xAK C2 Cargo 0/5600/200 16 13500 Convert to xAP in 2/42
xAK C3-E Cargo 0/5700/400 17 15600 USA
xAK Euro L 0/7580/550 17 14000 USA

xAK Pacific M 0/2900 12 6000 Abadan to India
xAK Dominion L 0/6400 12 16800 Cape Town to…
xAK Euro M 0/4175 14 12300 Cape Town to….


TK Federal Type-E 9430 14 Cape Town to Perth

AO Patoka 9820 11 USA to…
xAK EC2 Liberty Cargo 0/6250/500 12 USA to…
AO Kanawha 7850 13 USA to…

AO Admlty/Dale AO 10150 14 USA to…
TK T2-SE-A 14250 14 USA to…
xAK Euro K 0/5600/200 14 USA to…

AO Kennebec 12950 16 USA to …
TK Shell Type-A 12650 16 USA to …
TK Esso Type-T 14025 16 USA to …
xAK C2-T Cargo 0/5600/300 16 USA to …

AO Neosho 14950 16 Follow CVs

xAK Euro L 0/7580/550 17 USA to …
xAK C3-S Cargo 0/7010/500 17 USA to …
xAK C3-E Cargo 0/5600/300 17 USA to …

[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Japanese Troops – Free!!
Unit Components Location
4 Ind Mixed Rgt Lans Son
21 Ind Mixed Bde Hanoi
65 Bde Takao
Gds Mixed Bde Tokyo
Imp Gds Div Battanbang
2 Inf Div (ID) __________
4, 16, 24 Rgt __________
4 ID __________
5 ID __________
11, 21, 42 Rgt __________
16 ID __________
9, 20, 33 Rgt __________
18 ID __________
55, 56, 114 Rgt __________
21 ID __________
30 ID 41 Rgt __________
33 ID __________
38 ID __________
48 ID __________
47, 1 Formosa, 2 Fo __________
55 ID __________
112, 143, 144, 55 Cav __________
56 ID __________
113, 146, 148 Rgt __________


1 Para Assault Div Peleliu __________
1 China Assault DIV Truk __________
2 China Assault Div Etorofu __________
1 Sasebo Assault Div Saipan __________
2 Sasebo Assault Div 42-Aug-05 __________
1 Kure Assault Div Babeldoab __________
2 Kure Assault Div 42-May-01 __________
1 Maizuru Assault Div Saipan __________
2 Maizuru Assault Div 42-Mar-12 __________

1 Tank Rgt __________
2 Tank Rgt __________
4 Tank Rgt __________
6 Tank Rgt __________
7 Tank Rgt __________
8 Tank Rgt __________
11 Tank Rgt __________
14 Tank Rgt __________
[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by ny59giants »

LEADERS

For what it's worth, here is a transcript of an early AE post. Unfortunately I cannot properly credit it because I did not record the poster's name. IIRC, it is based upon an early post in the WitP forum by a dev who listed in great detail the function of each leader attribute.

Command Headquarters

Combat Commands - Those in which significant and important battles occur within their command radius. Select leaders on the basis of these priorities:
· High Administration Skill - This influences the HQ units use of support to reduce fatigue and disruption
· High Land Skill - Influences the Assault Value of LCU's within their radius
· High Inspiration - Influences the Assault Value of LCU's within their radius
· All other skills have no influence or bearing on the HQ function.

Rear Area Commands - Those in which significant and important battles will not occur within their command radius. Select leaders on the basis of these priorities:
· High Administration Skill - This influences the HQ units use of support to reduce fatigue and disruption
· All other skills have no influence or bearing on the HQ function.

Corps/Army Headquarters

Front Line Corps - Those in which significant and important battles occur within their command radius. Select leaders on the basis of these priorities:
· High Administration Skill - This influences the HQ units use of support to reduce fatigue and disruption
· High Land Skill - Influences the Assault Value of LCU's within their radius
· High Inspiration - Influences the Assault Value of LCU's within their radius
· All other skills have no influence or bearing on the HQ function.

Rear Area Corps - Those in which significant and important battles will not occur within their command radius. Select leaders on the basis of these priorities:
· High Administration Skill - This influences the HQ units use of support to reduce fatigue and disruption
· All other skills have no influence or bearing on the HQ function.

Notes on Corps HQ Employment:
· Seek to put a corps HQ into or one hex from key battles
· Seek to put a Corps HQ in the hex with defensive bastions, invasions, and major assaults
· Corps HQ should only be used for rear area duties if you have more than you need for front line duties, then use them at designated R&R and Training bases.
· The Amphibious Corps HQ function as Corps HQ and not Amphibious HQ. This applies to the I, III, & V Amphibious Corps and not the III, V, & VII Amphibious Force.

Amphibious Force Headquarters
· High Land Skill - This influences the Amphibious Landings in that units will land faster, with less disruption and fewer losses
· All other skills have no influence or bearing on the HQ function.

Notes on Amphibious Force HQ Employment:
· Load these HQ's onto AGC's in their own TF set to Do Not Unload.
· Have the AGC TF arrive in the invasion landing hex in the same phase as the first wave landing TF's
· Keep them in the landing hex until the base is captured or the enemy is defeated, whichever comes first, then skedaddle away to safety where the AGC will not get sunk. You only get three of these HQ's (if you are the allies...the Japanese get none). They will re-spawn, but better not to lose them too many times.
· Amphibious Force HQ do not function as Corps HQ. A good invasion should have a Corps HQ land with the invading forces.


Naval Headquarters
· The qualities and skills of the HQ leader has no influence or bearing on the HQ function.
· A Naval HQ is a good place for your stupidest, most incompetent admirals to become heroes

Notes on Naval HQ Employment:
· Place a Naval HQ in a forward repair depot. This will facilitate rapid repair and return to battle. A forward repair depot is a reasonably large port near the area of action. Reasonably large means size 5 or better so that damaged devices can be repaired.
· Place a Naval HQ far forward so that crippled ships in danger of sinking can slip into a nearby port within the HQ's range and enhance their chances of being saved.
· Place a Naval HQ in a Major repair shipyard to speed repairs (not sure if the HQ will exert an influence on a port that is already size 10).
· Most Naval HQ have naval support squads, so can assist in loading/unloading cargo and rearming ships.


Air Headquarters
· High Air Skill - This influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly.
· All other skills have no influence or bearing on the HQ function.

Notes on Air HQ Employment:
· Air HQ have a dramatic influence on level bombers. It is important to have an air HQ within range of your level bomber bases.
· Air HQ exert significant influence over other strike aircraft. It is good to have an air HQ in range of your bases from which strikes other than level bombers fly.
· Air HQ exert an influence over patrol aircraft. It is beneficial to have an air HQ in range of your bases with patrol aircraft.
· In Naval TF’s with Carriers (CV, CVL, CVE), the TF commander serves as the Air HQ for the carrier aircraft.

Note that the leadership Value of Headquarters Commanders is completely irrelevant other than its influence on the Headquarters unit itself. That is it will influence how rapidly the HQ unit gains experience. The only value of the HQ Unit's experience is for its own defense. Therefore, do not bother installing your "strong leaders" in HQ Units. Look for the qualities that are specific to their function.

TF Leaders
Task Force Commanders are selected in one of three ways:

· If Auto-select Commander is set to Off when the TF is formed, then the TF Commander is the captain of the Flagship.
· If Auto-select Commander is set to On, then the TF Commander is selected randomly from the pool of available RADM and VADM TF Commanders.
· After formation of the TF, the player may select the TF, if the TF is docked in a port, by clicking on the name of the TF Commander and selecting from the list of available RADM's and VADM's. This incurs a Political Point Cost.

Note: Rank has no bearing on the designation of the TF Commander. It is possible to create situations in which an Ensign is the TF Commander with ships/craft commanded by LTJG's and LT's and similar cases.

Flagship Selection
The Flagship of the Task Force is determined automatically using the following guidelines:

· Flagships are designated in order of Ship Class: AGC-CV-BB-BC-CVL-CA-CL-CLAA-CVE-DD (the list continues through all classes)
· Between ships of the same class, the largest ship in the task force (highest durability) is selected as the Flagship.
· For ships of the same class and equal durability, the last ship selected or added to the TF is the Flagship.
· The nationality of the Flagship determines the nationality of the TF and therefore the available pool of RADM and VADM to command the TF.

Air Combat TF
· Air Skill - The TF Commander functions as an Air HQ for the airgroups. This will influence how many strike aircraft will fly.
· Aggression - Influences how likely the TF is to react and move toward an enemy. High aggression can result in your carrier group running into a fight. Be careful in this selection.
· Surface Skill - To save your hind quarters (and I am not talking Russian Helicopters), if you are unfortunate enough to get in a surface engagement.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Surface Combat TF
· Surface Skill - To gain surprise and cross the T in an engagement
· Aggression - High Aggression will increase the likelihood that the Surface Combat TF will react and seek a fight (be careful... A TF for two DD's with an Admiral of 100 aggression will probably pick a fight with some BB's... This rarely ends well for the DD's)
· Air Skill - Of small import, but it influences the float plane operations from the Capital Ships.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

ASW Combat TF
· Surface Skill - Influences probability of finding submarines.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Bombardment TF
· Aggression - Influences the probability that the TF will convert to a Surface Combat TF.
· Surface Skill - Influences TF in a fight the same as Surface Combat.
· Air Skill - Of small import, but it influences the float plane operations from the Capital Ships.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Fast Transport TF
· Surface Skill - Influences TF in a fight the same as Surface Combat.
· Air Skill - Of small import, but it influences the float plane operations from the Capital Ships.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Transport, Replenishment TF
· Surface Skill - Influences TF in a fight the same as Surface Combat. Also, it Influences probability of the escort combatants finding submarines
· Air Skill - Influences the operations of strike aircraft and float planes from the Escort Carriers and Cruisers.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Mine Warfare TF
· Surface Skill - Influences TF in a fight the same as Surface Combat.
· Air Skill - Of small import, but it influences the float plane operations from the Cruisers.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Escort TF
· Surface Skill - If operating with the intent to engage surface combatants coming after the escorted TF, it Influences TF in a fight the same as Surface Combat. Also, it Influences probability of finding submarines
· Air Skill - Influences the operations of strike aircraft and float planes from the Carriers, Escort Carriers and Capital Ship.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Notes on Selecting TF Leaders without assigning a leader:
· Using the Flagship Selection Criteria above, select the ship with the Captain that best fits type of TF being formed as Flagship so that he is the TF Commander.
· Any TF that is formed to perform any fighting function should have a competent Admiral assigned


Air Group Leaders
Selecting leaders for air groups is a fairly complex task. Most aircraft can perform multiple roles, so leader selection criteria must include consideration of how the air group will be employed.
· Pilot experience affects operational losses.
· Air groups with morale < 50 must pass a morale test before flying an offensive mission. If the test is failed, no aircraft will fly.
· Air groups flying Naval Search, ASW Patrol, or CAP must pass two morale tests before flying. Each morale test failed reduces the number of aircraft flying by 25%.
· Level Bombers must pass three tests before flying an offensive mission. Each test failed reduces the number of aircraft flying by 25%:

o Experience test.
o Test against the leader’s Air Skill.
o Morale test.

· Pilot experience affects the chances to find the target in a strike mission.
· Pilot experience affects air-to-air combat results.
· Leader’s air skill affects results in air-to-air combat.


CAP as Principle Role
This includes Fighters, Fighter-Bombers, Night-Fighters, and Float-Fighters. Assign leader using these priorities:
· Inspiration – Influences the number of CAP aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.
· Air Skill – Influences the air-to-air combat results.
· Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Offensive Missions as Principle Role (except Level Bombers)
Missions include Airfield Attack, Port Attack, Naval Attack, Ground Attack, Sweep, and Recon. Air Groups include includes Fighters, Fighter-Bombers, Night-Fighters, Float-Fighters, Dive Bombers, Torpedo Bombers, Float Planes, Patrol, and Recon. Assign leader using these priorities:
· Inspiration – Influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.
· Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.
· Air Skill – Influences results in air-to-air combat.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Level Bombers with Offensive Missions as Principle Role
Missions include Airfield Attack, Port Attack, Naval Attack, Ground Attack, and Recon. Assign leader using these priorities:
· Inspiration – Influences the number of strike aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.
· Air Skill – Influences the number of strike aircraft that will fly.
· Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Patrol Missions as Principle Role
Missions include Naval Search and ASW Patrol. Air Groups include Dive Bombers, Torpedo Bombers, Float Planes, level bombers, Patrol, and Recon. Assign leader using these priorities:
· Inspiration – Influences the number of patrol aircraft that will fly. Influences air group morale recovery.
· Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.
· Of small import, Air Skill influences results in air-to-air combat (aircraft can be intercepted by CAP, but this is unlikely).
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Transport Missions as Principle Role
Missions include Supply Transport and Troop Transport. Air Groups include Transports, Patrol, and Level Bombers. Assign leader using these priorities:
· Inspiration –Influences air group morale recovery.
· Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.
· Of small import, Air Skill influences results in air-to-air combat.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Training Mission as Principle Role
This includes all air groups. Assign leader using these priorities:
· Inspiration –Influences air group morale recovery.
· Leadership – Influences the air group’s experience gain.
· Of small import, Air Skill influences results in air-to-air combat.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.


Ship Leaders Ship Captains
Carriers
This includes CV, CVL, and CVE. Assign leader using these priorities:
· Leadership – Influences the ship’s experience gain
· Air Skill – If the carrier captain will serve as the TF Commander, then he functions as the Air HQ for the TF aircraft. Air skill then influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly.
· Surface – Influences ship's chance of locating a target during surface combat
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

ASW Vessels
This includes DD, DE, AVD, APD, DMS, MSW, PC, SC, & PG with ASW armament. Assign leader using these priorities:
· Leadership – Influences the ship’s experience gain
· Surface – Influences ship's chance of locating a target during surface combat
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Combat Vessels
All combat vessels with a high probability of surface combat that will be used in other than an ASW role. Assign leader using these priorities:
· Surface – Influences ship's chance of locating a target during surface combat
· Leadership – Influences the ship’s experience gain
· Air Skill – Of very small import. If the ship captain will serve as the TF Commander in a combat task force, then he functions as the Air HQ for the TF float planes. Air skill then influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Non-Combat Vessels
Assign leader using these priorities:
· Leadership – Influences the ship’s experience gain
· Surface – Influences ship's chance of locating a target during surface combat
· Air Skill – Of very small import. If the ship captain will serve as the TF Commander in a non-combat task force containing and operating float planes (i.e. Japanese AV with float planes loaded), then he functions as the Air HQ for the TF float planes. Air skill then influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Submarines
Assign leader using these priorities:
· Aggression – Influences sub’s chance of contacting enemy TF’s
· Surface – Influences sub’s chance of contact and survivability in an ASW attack
· Leadership – Influences the ship’s experience gain
· Air Skill – A curious consideration only. The captain of a Japanese submarine that will serve as the TF Commander in a sub patrol task force containing and operating float planes (i.e. E14Y1 Glen's on Types J3, A1, B1, A2, B2, B3/4, AM, or STo), then he functions as the Air HQ for the TF float planes. Air skill then influences the number of strike and patrol aircraft that will fly.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.


Land Unit Leaders
LCU leaders should be selected based on how the LCU is being employed.

HQ Units
Assign HQ Unit Leaders using the criteria for HQ units. As considerations beyond the HQ unit’s function, use the following in order of priorities:
· Inspiration – Influences fatigue reduction, morale reduction due to fatigue, disabled elements destroyed due to fatigue, and assault value for attack and defense.
· Leadership – Influences experience gain.
· Administration – Influences ability to use Supply to reduce Disruption and Fatigue.
· Land Skill – Influences attacking & defending LCU assault value, firing accuracy and experience gain.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Front Line Units (high probability of combat)
Assign unit leaders using the following order of priorities:
· Land Skill – Influences attacking & defending LCU assault value, firing accuracy and experience gain.
· Inspiration – Influences fatigue reduction, morale reduction due to fatigue, disabled elements destroyed due to fatigue, and assault value for attack and defense.
· Leadership – Influences experience gain.
· Administration – Influences ability to use Supply to reduce Disruption and Fatigue.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Rear Area Units Training or Rear Area Functional Units
Units can use training to gain experience up to an allowable maximum based on the unit nationality. If unit is in the rear area in order to train, assign unit leaders using the following order of priorities:
· Leadership – Influences experience gain.
· Administration – Influences ability to use Supply to reduce Disruption and Fatigue.
· Inspiration – Influences fatigue reduction, morale reduction due to fatigue, disabled elements destroyed due to fatigue, and assault value for attack and defense.
· Land Skill – Influences attacking & defending LCU assault value, firing accuracy and experience gain.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence.

Rear Area Units Refitting
Units can be moved to a rear area to reconstitute (ideally out of a malaria or cold zone or in a base large enough to negate the effects). If the units are in the rear area to restore disabled elements, reduce fatigue, and replace lost elements, assign unit leaders using the following order of priorities:
· Administration – Influences ability to use Supply to reduce Disruption and Fatigue.
· Inspiration – Influences fatigue reduction, morale reduction due to fatigue, disabled elements destroyed due to fatigue, and assault value for attack and defense.
· Leadership – Influences experience gain (this is unimportant if the unit has already reached the maximum training experience).
· Of small import, Land Skill – Influences attacking & defending LCU assault value, firing accuracy and experience gain.
· No other skills or qualities have any influence
[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Gentlemen,

Recently I was contacted by a four year forumite veteran seeking clarification on how to determine how long a supply stockpile at a particular base might last. Apparently his requests from other players for similar information had not been as helpful as he had hoped.

It seems to me that other long term players, and of course in particular new players, might benefit from having all the relevant issues presented in a consolidated location. Before continuing two points need to be immediately identified. Firstly, what follows applies only to the official game scenarios. Some of the mods have altered important details. Secondly, readers who wish to see the impact of logistics on operations are well advised to read Andy Mac’s AAR. Probably more than any other AAR writer, Andy Mac regularly explains how his operations are shaped by logistical considerations. As he is a dev, his observations should not be overlooked by anyone who wishes to master this topic.

(A) Overview

The determination of how large a supply stockpile should be, or how long it might last, is not an exact science. There are too many variables outside of a player’s control for 100% predictive accuracy. What can be identified are the factors which impact upon supply stockpiles at a particular base. These factors can be broadly classified as falling within the following areas:

• Supply creation
• Supply movement
• Supply destruction
• Supply consumption

These areas are looked at in detail in the following sections. When the discussion touches on naval matters, fuel is included in the discussion. By necessity, this discussion is essentially a summary, for complete details of all the game scenario data and relationships, readers are directed back to the manual.

One very important point for players to be aware of is that the aggregated supply of all your supply stockpiles from all your bases is of no real value. To accomplish anything you need to have supply (and fuel) locally where it will be consumed. Ten million supply points located in San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego will not feed your forces fighting on Guadalcanal. Those forces will be fed solely out of what is stored locally on Guadalcanal.

(B) Mummy, where does supply come from?

There are three basic supply sources:

• National Automatic
• Imports
• Industrial Enterprises

The Burma Road is a unique supply source. Each turn that the Allied player can trace an uninterrupted supply path along the transportation network linking Rangoon and Tsuyung, 500 supply points are delivered to Tsuyung.

(B.1) National Automatic

Scenario designers can assign a daily amount of supply (and or fuel) which will automatically arrive each day at a base. This automatic delivery will cease immediately upon the capture of the base by the enemy. The deliveries will immediately resume when the base is liberated from the enemy.

The amount delivered daily is the figure to the right of the slash in the supplies on hand data found on the base screen (see manual page 205). There is nothing the player can do to increase or reduce this amount in game, other than of course to lose/capture the base.

(B.2) Imports

Some importation of supply to a base occurs automatically without any player action required. Players can manually attempt to import supply (and fuel). The opposing player can block the automatic importation, or attempt to interdict the imported supply.
Most automatic importation of supply (and fuel) occurs overland but under certain restricted circumstances, it can also occur over water (see s.9.3.3.3 of the manual). There is no aerial automatic importation of supply. Players can manually import, by ships both supply and fuel, but airplanes cannot transport fuel they can only transport supply. Players cannot manually directly import supply (and fuel) overland, however by manipulation of the supply required spinner or stockpile option, a player can manually exert some influence on the direction and amount of supply moved overland by the program automatically.

Supply will not move automatically overland through a hexside owned by the enemy nor through a contested hex.
How often supply will automatically move overland depends on the quality of the overland transportation links. The table in s.8.3.1 of the manual details the cost of moving supply through the different terrain types and transportation infrastructure.

Each overland transportation route has a value which is determined by subtracting from 100 the cost of movement associated with each hex along which the supply must travel. The value of the overland route then determines how often a delivery is made:

• Four times per week if the overland transportation route amounts to 89 - 100
• Two times per week if the route amounts to 49 – 88
• Once per week if the route amounts to 10 – 48

Bases will only export supply which is viewed as surplus. Supply in excess of 3x the amount required by the base is considered surplus. This surplus supply may go to another base or be consumed by LCUs in the field.

The amount of supply which can be delivered by a Transport plane or Level Bomber is (Maximum Load)/2000. Fractions are rounded down but each plane can always deliver a minimum of 1 supply point.

(B.3) Industrial Enterprises

Most supply is generated by industrial enterprises. For the official scenarios supply is generated by:

• Heavy Industry, inputs needed are resources and fuel
• Light Industry, input needed is only resources
• Refinery, input needed is only oil

Players must distinguish between raw material production facilities and manufacturing facilities.

Raw material production facilities are resource and oil centres. These facilities immediately cease to produce raw materials as soon as any enemy LCU enters the hex.

Provided they retain access to the necessary raw materials, either by importation or accessing a local stockpile, manufacturing facilities will continue to produce supply even if an enemy LCU is present in the hex.

Production at all industrial enterprises can be damaged by several means:

• City attack air mission (see pages 151-152 of the manual)
• Naval bombardment task force
• Upon base capture by the enemy, the amount of damage suffered by these facilities is influenced by the quantity of defending surviving engineers present at the changeover

(C) Honey, I seem to have shrunk the supply stockpile!

Sometimes players will look at the supply stockpiled at a base and see it is inexplicably disappearing. Excluding the detailed factors which are looked at in section (D) below, the usual reasons for an unexplained shrinking supply stockpile are:

• Supply (and fuel) spoilage
• Repair of industrial enterprises
• Airfield/port supply hits

(C.1) Spoilage

Bases whose combined airfield and port levels amount to less than 9 can suffer spoilage of their supply (and fuel) stockpile.

Spoilage will occur if the following base thresholds are exceeded:

• Size 8 – above 197k supply (129k fuel)
• Size 7 – above 152k supply (99k fuel)
• Size 6 – above 113k supply (73k fuel)
• Size 5 – above 80k supply (51k fuel)
• Size 4 – above 53k supply (33k fuel)
• Size 3 – above 32k supply (19k fuel)
• Size 2 – above 17k supply (9k fuel)
• Size 1 – above 8k supply (3k fuel)

Note that the check for spoilage is made for each stockpile. A Size 8 base with 154k supply plus 83k fuel will not suffer spoilage. It will suffer supply spoilage if it has 204k supply plus 22k fuel.

Dot bases can store up to 5k supplies and 1k fuel before suffering spoilage.

(C.2) Industrial Repairs

It costs supply to repair damaged industrial facilities. This is a particularly important point for Japanese players to remember for they have many more industrial facilities which might need to be repaired than the list of those dealt with in section (B.3) above.

The cost to repair a single damaged industrial centre is 1k supply. The repair will only commence if the player has also “lodged“ a 10k supply “bond” with the “tradesmen”. The supply must be present onsite.

(C.3) Airfield/Port Supply Hits

Attacks against airfields and ports can result in supply hits which destroy some supply. The actual amount so destroyed is very difficult to quantify for several reasons.

• The combat report is subject to FOW so there is always some uncertainty as to how many hits actually ensued
• Fort levels and terrain affect the supply hits
• The amount of supply destroyed is a random amount based on the device’s effect and anti-soft rating – essentially the bigger the bomb the more damage inflicted

(D) Professor, they’ll never find a use for supply, there just isn’t any demand for it!

Congratulations, if you have read this far, now comes the pay off. Supply present locally is the game currency needed to undertake the following activities not mentioned previously.

• Feed LCUs – starving LCUs have reduced firepower, reduced capacity to reduce fatigue, a lower adjusted Assault Value
• Air missions
• Rearm ships after combat
• Pay for receiving replacements for both land and air units
• Construction of base facilities

(D.1) LCU supply cost

Most players emphasise the Assault Value (AV) of a LCU instead of the combat firepower of the unit which is a much more useful measure. The merits of the two measures is however a discussion best left to another day. What players do generally tend to pay little attention is the cost of maintaining a unit out in the field.

The average size of a fully built up Allied division is about 450 AV. A fully equipped Chinese LCU could be double this but they tend to lack access to the necessary supply. A division of about 450 AV, which is not engaged in combat will consume approximately 1500 supply points monthly, or 50 daily. A brigade of approximately 150 AV not engaged in combat will consume approximately 500 supply points monthly.

(D.2) Cost of air missions

Each sortie flown consumes supply. Lack the requisite supply, the air mission is not flown. The actual supply cost depends on the type of mission flown and the type of plane as follows:

• Offensive Mission flown by a Level Bomber, the cost is (Maximum Load/1000) per plane
• Offensive Mission flown by a Dive Bomb or Torpedo, the cost is 1 supply point per plane
• Other missions such as Search and CAP expend only 1/3 of a supply point per plane

Hence a 12 plane Liberator squadron sent to bomb an airfield will consume 96 supply points. A USMC torpedo squadron of 18 Avengers will consume 18 supply points.

(D.3) Ship Rearming

The rearming of a ship after combat consumes supply. The supply cost is:

• [(Weapon Effect Rating * 2) * (Number of Guns) * (Ammo per gun)] / 2000

(D.4) Cost of replacements

The basic supply cost for a LCU replacement device is the load cost.

For air units, the supply cost for each replacement airframe depends on the type of airframe:

• 12 supply points for fighter, fighter bomber
• 15 supply points for dive bomber, torpedo bomber, float plane, float fighter
• 18 supply points for night fighter, recon
• 30 supply points for heavy bomber, medium bomber, light bomber, attack bomber, transport, patrol

Thus the previously mentioned 12 plane Liberator squadron (see D.2 above) consumed 96 supply points to fly the mission. If the squadron had 4 planes shot down, it would need an additional 120 supply points to replace it’s losses.

(D.5) Base facilities

The repair of base facilities (airfield and port) does not cost supply. However the construction of base facilities (airfield, port and forts) does consume supply. The supply is not actually consumed by the facility but by the engineers engaged in the construction work.

Engineers must be in combat mode to build base facilities. Whilst working, each engineer (an engineer vehicle = 5 engineers) consumes 1 supply point each 12 hours. Hence if a player has 100 engineers building, they will consume 200 supply points daily, an amount which is equivalent to approximately 4 infantry divisions.

Alfred
[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
Zecke
Posts: 1329
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 10:50 pm
Location: Hitoeton

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by Zecke »

ufff...[&o]...TOO much¡

domou arigatou gozaimashita¡¡..jajajaa

[:D]
Epsilon Eridani


User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Gentlemen and Lady, By Alfred!!

This month I've had a very limited presence on the forum because I have been drafting a guide as to how ship repairs are handled in the game. In this task I have been greatly assisted by the feedback provided by Bullwinkle. You can all thank him for the guide almost doubling in size from the initial draft.

In my view, at least 98% of ship repair questions asked are answered by a careful reading of the guide. These questions almost always result from player errors/misunderstandings of the repair process.




SHIP REPAIR 101 GUIDE



1. Introduction

Repairing ships in AE is more complicated than it was in classical WITP. What is involved in repairing ships is detailed at length in section 14.2 (pages 239-249) of the manual. Notwithstanding the wealth of information contained in the manual, questions are regularly posted on the forum seeking clarification.

This guide is intended to represent the subject in a manner more easily understood. To that end I introduce in the guide some terminology not officially sanctioned but which I believe better explains a concept.

The guide also presents much of the relevant data in tables. After each table an exemplar is provided to assist in comprehending the table.

Although repairing ships is now more complicated, there is no necessity for players to immerse themselves in the minutiae of the repair process. The hidden “repair manager” (discussed in section 14 below) does its work independently under the hood quite competently. All that a player who wishes to avoid micromanaging the repair process needs to know are the parameters which the “repair manager” independently works with.


2. Glossary of repair abbreviations

Below is a list of repair abbreviations used in this guide. The concept they each represent individually is explained when it is first introduced in the guide. The abbreviations are collected here for ease of reference. To make it easier to identify terminology introduced by me and which is not officially sanctioned in the game manual, I have placed an asterisk (“*”) in this glossary to denote it is my terminology.

• IR* - integrity repair
• IRP* – integrity repair point
• POD – point of damage
• RW* – repair worker
• WR – weapon repair
• WRP – weapon repair point


3. Correcting common player misunderstandings of the repair process

Before proceeding to discuss the “repair process” in detail, I think it is useful to correct at the start of this guide, some very common player misunderstandings of what is involved in the “repair process”. Player misunderstandings of the “repair process” inhibit a proper understanding the “repair process”. Below I list the true parameters which correct the most common player misunderstandings of the “repair process”.

• The process of repairing ships does not consume supply, there is therefore no need for “tenders” to be loaded with supply when they are being used as “repair ships”
• Although more detailed now and closer to real world considerations, the “repair process” remains abstracted, therefore do not transfer to the game your own real world experience
• Unused repair capabilities are not carried over to the next turn, it is therefore a case of use it this turn or lose it
• Damage is categorized as “normal” or “major”, both damage categories commonly being present
• The cost to repair “major” damage is exactly the same as the cost to repair “normal” damage
• Technically, weapons are not damaged but destroyed hence there is no “normal” or “major” damage to weapons
• Choose your “repair mode” carefully, undertaking repairs in a shipyard is not always the best option,
• Do not confuse “damage control” with the ship “repair process”, they are two different concepts
• Fire fighting is a “damage control” issue, not a “damage repair” issue
• Ships on fire will not repair offline until the fires are extinguished and there is a risk of additional damage caused by raging fires
• Do not confuse the ship “upgrade process” with the ship “repair process”, they are two different concepts


4. Repair modes

Repairs are made to ships which are in one of the following “repair modes”.

• Readiness
• Pierside
• Repair ship
• Shipyard

“Readiness mode” is the game default mode. In “readiness mode” a ship remains in a state of combat readiness. The ship can be in a task force or disbanded in a port (includes an anchorage which is a port sized 0). Generally speaking this is by far the least efficient “repair mode” (see sections 9 and 12 below for justification for this claim).

“Pierside mode” is when a ship is taken offline and is not available for combat. The ship must be disbanded in a port (includes an anchorage which is a port sized 0), it cannot be in a task force. Generally speaking this is the most efficient “repair mode” for “normal” damage (see sections 9 and 12 below for justification for this claim). Repairing “major” damage is not always possible in this “repair mode”.

“Repair ship mode” is when a ship is taken offline and is not available for combat. The ship must be disbanded in a port (includes an anchorage which is a port sized 0) and the port must also contain an appropriate disbanded “repair ship”. This “repair mode” is useful to repair “major” damage which often cannot be repaired employing only “pierside mode”. “Repair ships” are mobile repair facilities and therefore provide a degree of flexibility to effect repairs close to the frontline.

“Shipyard repair mode” is when a ship is taken offline and placed in a shipyard. This “repair mode” is only available (a) in ports with a shipyard, and (b) if the ship can fit into the shipyard. To fit into a shipyard the ship’s tonnage must not exceed the (shipyard size x 1000). The total tonnage which a shipyard can work on simultaneously is also (shipyard size x 1000). It is not possible to place a ship into a shipyard whose tonnage exceeds (shipyard size x 1000) but it is possible to have more aggregated tonnage assigned to “shipyard repair mode” than (shipyard size x 1000). In the event of too much aggregated tonnage, the ships over the shipyard limit are placed in a queue by the “repair manager” and enter the shipyard as repaired ships are moved out. Judicious use by the player of the “repair priority” order affects the queue order (see section 13 below).

Ships in the three offline repair modes (“pierside”, “repair ship” and “shipyard”) normally experience a 3 day delay before they can be returned to combat status and formed into task forces.

A ship can be placed in any of the four “repair modes” via either the “individual ship” screen or the “ships in port” screen which has a button at the bottom of the screen named “manage ships under repair”. I very strongly recommend that players only ever use the second method as the complete picture of the repair situation at that location is only provided via the “manage ships under repair” screen.


5. Damage Areas

Ships sustain damage to four areas:

• Weapons
• Flotation
• Engine
• System

For ease of reference, unless specifically identified individually, from hereon I will group together into a single area, the areas of flotation, engine and system and refer to them as the “integrity area”. Repairs to this consolidated area will subsequently be referred to as “integrity repairs” (“IR”).

“Flotation damage” is damage incurred to the hull. Once flotation damage reaches 100, the ship sinks.

“Engine damage” is damage incurred to the propulsion/power plants. The greater the engine damage incurred, the slower top speed a ship can make.

“System damage” is damage incurred to the top side structure.

“Weapon repairs” (“WR”) are processed differently from how repairs are processed for IR. Compared to IR, WR is relatively simple and straight forward. This is because technically the game does not damage weapons, instead weapons are destroyed. On the ship screen a damaged weapon is in red and you will note there are fewer weapons than there were before the weapon was damaged. WR is therefore not about repairing a weapon mount or gun barrel but substituting in a new mount or gun barrel for the destroyed one.


6. Major damage

Part of the additional complexity of IR is that “integrity area” damage comes in two flavours, “normal” or “major”. There is no similar classification for “weapon damage” because the distinction is meaningless in the context of something which has been destroyed.

Essentially there is no difference between a “point of damage” (“POD”) which is “normal” and a POD which is “major”. A ship with no “major” flotation damage but with 56 “normal” flotation POD is in much greater risk of sinking than a ship with only 28 “major” flotation POD. The only real difference between “normal” and “major” damage is that there are much stricter requirements to be met for the repair of “major” damage. See section 11 below for the stricter requirements involved to repair “major” POD.

All POD are “normal” unless “major” POD are identified. A ship which is shown as having only:

23 flotation damage (3 major)


Should be read as having a total of only 23 POD of which 20 are “normal” flotation POD plus 3 “major” flotation POD.


7. Cost of Repairs

Ship repairs are paid for in the currency of “repair points”. The actual amount it will cost in “repair points” to effect a repair is dependent on whether it is a WR or an IR. Accordingly I separate “weapon repair point” (“WRP”) from “integrity repair point” (“IRP”).

For weapons, the actual cost in WRP is dependent on the type of weapon which needs to be repaired. A sliding scale cost is applicable to guns, all other weapon types have a fixed cost dependent on weapon type. These costs are detailed in table A.

Table A: Weapon Repair Costs

Rockets (all types) cost 50 WRP
Radars and ASW detectors cost 90 WRP
Mines and Torpedoes cost 120 WRP
Guns cost WRP equal to the effect value of the gun

Exemplar A: the 16in/50 Mk 7 gun has an effect of 2700, hence the cost in WRP = 2700. The WRP cost to repair a 20mm Oerlikon AA gun is 15.


As can be seen, the WRP cost for weapons is quite easy to determine in advance. Repairing guns (which are all other weapons other than rockets, radars/ASW detectors, mines and torpedoes) is slightly more complicated in as much the repair bill is affected by the size of the gun, represented by the effect of the gun. Bigger guns consume more WRP. Full details of the effect of each gun are found in the “in game” ship database (short cut key <V>).

All IR have a fixed cost of 100 IRP to remove 1 POD. Thus if a ship has 12 flotation, 6 engine and 9 system damage, it has a total of 27 POD and therefore the total number of IRP needed to fully repair the ship will be 2700.

In terms of IRP costs, repairing “major” damage is not more expensive than repairing “normal” damage. You still need 100 IRP to remove 1 major POD. However the conditions to be met for the repair of “major” POD is much more restrictive than those for repairing “normal” POD. Section 11 deals with the expertise needed to remove “major” damage.


8. Weapon Repair Point Sources

WRP are generated by only three sources:

• Shipyards
• Tenders
• Ports

These WRP are generated at a different rate than IRP are generated. Hence it is possible for a ship to have all of its IR damage repaired but still have its weapons unrepaired because the IR were effected at a location which lacked suitable facilities for WR.

It is very important to realize that WRP do not accumulate over turns. There is no WRP stockpile. A weapon will not be repaired if the ship has been sent to a WRP source which each turn generates fewer WRP than the amount needed to repair the weapon.


Table B: WRP generated by shipyards, ports and tenders for weapon repairs

(Shipyard size x 20) [NB: there is a maximum cap of 300 on shipyard size]
(Tenders generate a fixed 250 WRP)
(Port size x 25)

Exemplar B: As seen in table A, the WRP cost to repair a single 16in/50 Mk 7 gun is 2700. Only a shipyard sized 135 will generate sufficient WRP in a turn to repair a single 16in/50 Mk 7 gun. If the damaged weapon were instead a torpedo which requires only 120 WRP, the repair could be effected at a shipyard sized 6 or alternatively by an appropriate tender for the type of vessel or alternatively at a port sized 5.

Note the WRP listed in table B are from undamaged facilities. A shipyard sized 10 which generates 200 WRP if undamaged, will only generate 100 WRP if the shipyard is 50% damaged. A port sized 4 which is 75% damaged will generate only 25 WRP instead of the 100 WRP it would generate if not damaged.


9. Integrity Repair Point Sources

IRP are generated by five sources:

• Shipyards
• Ports
• Repair ships (includes Tenders for their respective ship types)
• Naval support squads
• Ship crews

Some of these IRP sources will pool together their generated IRP at the same location for use in the same turn to ships in certain “repair modes”. Others do not. Just like WRP, unused IRP are not carried forward to the next turn but the progress work made in one turn to partially remove a POD is carried over to the next turn. “Repair ships” must be disbanded in the port in order to generate any IRP.

IRP generated by shipyards are expended only on ships in “shipyard repair mode”, undergoing repair in the shipyard. Ships in “shipyard repair mode” only use IRP generated by the shipyard, they do not benefit from IRP generated by other sources. Repairs to ships not in “shipyard repair mode” do not benefit from any IRP generated by the shipyard.

Ships in “repair ship mode” will benefit only from IRP generated by the relevant “repair ships” (see tables F and G below for the relevant “repair ship”). When there are ships in “repair ship mode”, IRP generated by repair ships are not expended on ships in any other repair mode. However, if there are no ships in “repair ship mode”, the IRP generated by “repair ships” will be directed automatically by the “repair manager” to ships in “pierside mode” only, they will not be expended on ships in “readiness mode”.

The IRP generated by ports and naval support squads are pooled together and are expended each turn on ships in “pierside mode” or “readiness mode”.

Ship crew generated IRP are expended only on their own ship which can be in either “pierside mode” or “readiness mode”.

To simplify the presentation of the amount of IRP generated by the five sources, I have split them into three different tables.


Table C: IRP generated by shipyards, naval support squads and crews

(Shipyard size x 10)
(Naval Support Squads/2) minus (Damage/5) for repairing ships in “pierside mode”
(Naval Support Squads/3) minus (Damage/5) for repairing ships docked in “readiness mode”
(Crew Experience/8)

Exemplar C: A size 10 shipyard will generate 100 IRP each turn. It therefore can remove a single POD each turn from a single ship in “shipyard repair mode”.


Table D: IRP generated by ports

Port size 1 generates 8 IRP
Port size 2 generates 27 IRP
Port size 3 generates 27 IRP
Port size 4 generates 38 IRP
Port size 5 generates 50 IRP
Port size 6 generates 63 IRP
Port size 7 generates 77 IRP
Port size 8 generates 92 IRP
Port size 9 generates 108 IRP
Port size 10 generates 125 IRP

Exemplar D: A single ship in “pierside mode” at a port size 9 will receive 108 IRP each turn which is more than what is required to remove a single POD each turn. If the ship were in “pierside mode” at a port size 5 it would receive only 50 IRP which would be applied towards removing a POD and the progress achieved (together with any assistance from the crew and naval support, see table C above) would be carried over to the next turn.


Table E: IRP generated by repair ships

(Undamaged, disbanded, unused tender generates 83 IRP)
(Undamaged, disbanded, unused ARD generates 100 IRP but used only for flotation repair on one ship at a time)

Exemplar E: Two disbanded in port AS will generate a combined 166 IRP which will be applied only to a submarine in “repair ship mode”, any other additional submarines in port but in “pierside mode” will gain no benefit from these IRP. However, if there are no submarines in “repair ship mode” but only in “pierside mode” then the IRP generated by the AS will be automatically applied by the “repair manager” to the submarines in “pierside mode”. Were the submarines to be in “readiness mode” they would not benefit from these IRP.


As noted in section 8 above regarding WRP, the IRP listed in tables C-E above are from undamaged facilities. A shipyard sized 10 which generates 100 IRP if undamaged, will only generate 50 IRP if the shipyard is 50% damaged. A port sized 4 which is 75% damaged will generate only 9.5 IRP instead of the 38 IRP it would generate if not damaged.

The reason why I stated in section 4 above that “pierside mode” is generally the most efficient repair mode for IR (and “readiness mode” is generally the least efficient) can now be seen. Assume a destroyer has a total of 45 “normal” POD. It is in “pierside mode” at a size 5 port and there are no other ships in port undergoing IR. Present at the port are 40 naval support squads. The destroyer’s crew experience is 80. Also disbanded in the port is a single undamaged AD and there are no other relevant ships in “repair ship mode”. Co-located is a shipyard size 12. This single destroyer will receive each turn the following IRP from the identified sources:

• 50 IRP from the port [see table D, port size 5]
• 11 IRP from the naval support squads [see table C, (40/2) – (45/5)]
• 10 from crew experience [see table C, (80/8)]
• 83 IRP from the AD [see table E]

Thus the aggregated IRP expended on this destroyer in “pierside mode” is 154 IRP. That amounts to a single POD being removed entirely and 54% progress made towards removing (carried over to the next turn) another POD. If the destroyer were in “readiness mode” it would receive only an aggregated 64.3 IRP [see table C and exemplar E for the explanation in the IRP reduction]. If it were in “shipyard repair mode” it would receive only the 120 IRP generated by the size 12 shipyard.


10. Repair ship capabilities

In preceding sections reference has been made to “repair ships” and tenders. Many players are confused about the exact role of these ships for most “repair ships” are in fact tenders. Tenders are a dual role ship. One of their roles is to rearm relevant ship types. That role is not discussed in this guide. Their other role, that of repairing relevant ship types, is discussed in this guide. In this section of the guide I provide two tables, one for the capabilities of “repair ships” to repair “normal” integrity POD of combat vessels and another for their capabilities in repairing “major” integrity POD of combat vessels.


Table F: Normal integrity damage of combat vessels repairable by repair ships

AD – DD/DE/APD/DMS/DM/AVD/E/TB/KV/PF/PB/PC/SC/AM/ML
AG – DE/APD/DMS/DM/AVD/E/TB/KV/PF/PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AGP – PT/MTB/MGB/PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/YP/YMS/AMc
AR – all ship types
ARD – flotation damage only to all ship types but only 1 ship at a time is repaired
AS – SS/SST/SSX

Exemplar F: A mineweeper (AM) with 39 “normal” engine POD will receive IRP from an AD, AG, AGP or AR. A submarine with the exact same damage will receive IRP only from an AR or AS.


Table G: Major integrity damage of combat vessels repairable by repair ships

AD – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AG – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AGP – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AR – PB/PC/SC/AM/ML/HDML/MGB/YP/YMS/AMc
AR – all ship types sized DE and above provided the aggregated major IR damage does not exceed 5 POD
ARD – flotation damage only to all ship types but only 1 ship at a time is repaired

Exemplar G: A heavy cruiser with 3 “major” engine POD will be repaired by an AR. If it had 6 “major” engine POD, it could not be repaired by the AR.


11. Expertise required to repair major damage

Section 7 mentioned that it does not cost more IRP to remove “major” POD than it does to remove “normal” POD. What is different between the two damage categories is that specialized expertise is needed to undertake “major” IR. This expertise is generally only found in:

• Shipyards
• Some repair ships
• Ports sized 7

Any shipyard can remove any “major” damage provided the vessel fits into the shipyard in “shipyard repair mode”.

“Repair ships” are restricted to removing “major” damage only as listed in table G.

Ports sized 7 can repair up to 5 “major” flotation or engine POD on ships which are in “pierside mode”.

Late in the AE design process, a decision was made to relax the parameters for repairing “major” damage on small vessels (both combat and merchantmen). Players who only play the stock scenarios are most unlikely to see any practical benefit from this relaxation. However, players who play the DaBabes scenarios will probably derive some benefit from the relaxation and therefore the following table is provided mainly for their benefit. Those who stick to only the stock scenarios may decide the additional complexity is of little practical value to them and may safely skip this table.


Table H: Sundry expertise locations for repair of major damage

Merchant ships sized 1 to 1000 tons, where (port size x 100) = merchant ship tonnage
Barges, where port size = 4 or the repair ships AG/AGP/AR are disbanded in the port
Midget subs with “major” engine damage only, where port size = 6 or the repair ships AR/AS are disbanded in the port
Small craft ships up to 499 tons, port size = 4
Small craft 500 to 1000 tons, where port size = ship tonnage/100

Exemplar H: The ships listed in this table only benefit if they are disbanded in the port.


12. Market supply and demand forces impact upon labour of repair workers

Many players who in their games already carefully weigh up the factors presented to date in this guide but then become perturbed as to the length of time their ships spend in a repair mode, are probably overlooking what I refer to as the market supply and demand forces impacting upon the available labour to work on repairing ships.

Just as there are docking limits for task forces, and ship loading/unloading limits, there is also a limit on how many ships can be worked on at a port, either in “pierside mode” or “readiness mode”, in each 24 hour period. This is essentially an abstraction of supply/demand forces on what I term to be the “repair workers” (“RW”). Note the game manual does not actually employ the term RW instead it uses the terms “Port Assist Operations” to represent the supply of RW and “Port Assist Cost” to represent the demand from ships for RW.

Basically there are only so many RW which can be utilized in a port in each 24 hour period. The player needs to understand IRP is the currency used to pay for the work undertaken by the RW. If there is full employment of RW at the port, any additional ships will not be repaired as there are no unemployed RW available to carry out the repairs on these additional ships. IRP and RW are separate but closely entwined concepts.

RW are assembled as follows. The size of a port determines how many RW turn up seeking employment. This is referred to in the game as the “Port Assist Operations” and represents the supply of labour. Each damaged ship in the port (whether in “pierside mode” or “readiness mode”) undergoing IR employs a certain number of RW. This is referred to in the manual as the “Port Assist Cost” and represents the demand for labour. The demand for labour is modified by the “repair priority” (see section 13 below) assigned to a ship by the player.

For those interested in the minutiae the following tables are provided.


Table I: Supply of repair workers seeking employment

Port size 1 generates 8 RW
Port size 2 generates 34 RW
Port size 3 generates 81 RW
Port size 4 generates 152 RW
Port size 5 generates 250 RW
Port size 6 generates 378 RW
Port size 7 generates 539 RW
Port size 8 generates 736 RW
Port size 9 generates 972 RW
Port size 10 generates 1250 RW

Exemplar I: (see discussion following table J)


Table J: Ship demand for repair workers for ships in “normal repair priority”

Ship in “pierside mode”, demand = [(damage x 10) + (Ship tonnage/500)]
Ship in “readiness mode”, demand = [(damage x 20) + (Ship tonnage/500)]

Exemplar J:(see following discussion)


To illustrate in simple terms how supply and demand for RW plays out, consider the following situation. A 10000 ton cruiser has a total of 43 normal IR POD and is in “pierside mode” at a port size 8 with no other ships under repair. The cruiser’s “repair priority” is “normal” (see section 13 below for the effect if a different “repair priority” were assigned to the cruiser).

From table I, we can see the total supply of RW is 736. From table J, we can calculate the demand from this single ship for RW is:

(43 x 10) + (10000/500) = 450 RW


If the cruiser were in “readiness mode”, the equation then becomes:

(43 x 20) + (10000/500) = 880 RW


Clearly if the IR is undertaken in “readiness mode”, not only is there full RW employment, in fact there is a shortage of RW. When there is a shortage of RW, the rate of repairing the integrity damage is accordingly reduced to match the percentage of RW able to work on the ship.


13. Integrity repair priority

Players can elect the level of “repair priority” to be accorded a ship. There are four “repair priority” modes a ship can be placed in. These are:

• Low
• Normal
• High
• Critical

There is however a trade off for assigning a higher “repair priority”. Think of “high priority” and “critical priority” as representing overtime for the RW.

“High priority” sees IR undertaken at 1.667 times the normal rate (provided there are sufficient IRP available at that location to pay for the worked overtime) but the trade off is that the ship imposes 2 times its normal RW utilization rate.

“Critical priority” sees IR undertaken at 2 times the normal rate (again provided sufficient IRP are present for the worked overtime) but the trade off is 4 times the normal RW utilisation rate is incurred.

“Low priority” sees IR undertaken at the same rate as “normal priority”. The difference with “normal priority” is a ship on “low priority” is placed at the end of the queue and is only worked on if all the ships ahead of it have been attended to. Use “low priority” where you want to favour some other ships but are not willing, or unable, to pay the overtime rates.


14. What the repair manager actually does

What cannot be changed by the player and is fully under the control of the “repair manager” is the order in which the individual IR is undertaken. The “repair manager” prioritises the RW and the expenditure of IRP on the basis of damaged area and degree of the damage.

The first priority of the “repair manager” is to work, in descending order on:

• Flotation
• Engine
• System

The second priority is to work until damage in an area is reduced to a commensurate damage level in the other areas. This work is done within the following bands.

• 90+
• 75-89
• 60-74
• 45-59
• 30-44
• 15-29
• 8-14
• 4-7
• 2-3
• 1

In practice this means that a ship with 77 flotation, 48 engine and 17 system damage will see the “repair manager” directing the RW to work on the flotation damage until it is reduced to 45 at which point the RW are redirected to work on the engine damage until it is reduced to 45. At that point the RW restart work on flotation until it is reduced to 30, then switch over to work again on engine until it is reduced to 30. At that point the process starts over again with the RW on flotation until it is reduced to 15, then engine until it is reduced to 15 and only now do the RW start to work on reducing the system damage down from 17 to 15. When that is accomplished the RW again work on reducing flotation to 8, engine to 8, system to 8 and so on.

Bear in mind, this is “usually” how the “repair manager” approaches the task. The “repair manager” favours flotation damage over engine and system. It also treats “normal” damage a bit differently from “major” damage. Don’t even think about asking me what impacts upon the “repair managers” adoption of the “usual” or “normal/major” damage priority, that information is one of those under the hood, known only to the devs, situation. The entire process is also subject to random die rolls. Well it wouldn’t be a Gary Grigsby game if die rolls didn’t intrude.


15. Summary

Repairs are paid for by "repair points". These "repair points" are different depending on whether it is "weapon" or "integrity" damage being repaired. The sources for these "repair points" are varied and different and a repair will not occur unless the player arranges for the damage to be repaired at an appropriate facility.

The rate at which repairs are made is determined by the presence of both "repair points" and "repair workers" to do the work. The supply of labour to undertake repairs is essentially fixed but the demand for that labour is subject to player input.
[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Ship Unloading Rates
6.3.3.3.2 AMPHIBIOUS UNLOADING

The Amphibious Unload Rate bonus applies only to ships in an Amphibious TF. Amphibious Unload rates are determined by ship type (i.e., beaching craft, amphibious ship types, or ordinary transport/cargo ship types). There are no Port-derived cargo handling limits. Amphibious Unload only applies to Troops and Cargo (equipment and supply). Amphibious Unload does not apply to Fuel, Oil or Resources. Note that there is also an initial operations bonus for the Japanese during the first 4 months of the war.

Amphibious Unload may be used in two situations: an assault unloads over the beach, and amphibious unload in a small friendly port. Amphibious Unload Rate bonuses differ for the two situations.

6.3.3.3.2.1 OVER THE BEACH

This is for assault unloading over the beach.

» Beaching Craft. Beaching craft unload completely in one turn.
» Attack Amphibious Ships. (APA/AKA plus LSD, LSV and British equivalents)
in Amphibious TFs, unload at a Rate of 3000 points per ship, per phase.
» Regular Transport Ships. (Commissioned Naval AP/AK) in Amphibious
TFs, unload at a Rate of 600 points per ship per phase.
» Merchant Ships. (xAP/xAK) in Amphibious TFs, unload
at a Rate of 250 points per ship per phase.
» Special Japanese early war bonus of 1200 for all AP/AK and xAP/xAK types.

6.3.3.3.2.2 FRIENDLY PORT

For Amphibious docked at and unloading in a friendly port of Size 4 or less, the unload rate is slightly different for Troops and Cargo.

» Beaching Craft. Troops unload at a Rate of 1000 points per ship per
turn. Cargo unloads at a Rate of 750 points per ship per turn.
» Attack Amphibs. Troops unload at a Rate of 1000 points per ship per
turn. Cargo unloads at a Rate of 750 points per ship per turn.
» Regular Amphibs. Troops unload at a Rate of 300 points per ship per
turn. Cargo unloads at a Rate of 300 points per ship per turn.
» Merchant Ships. Troops unload at a Rate of 125 points per ship per
turn. Cargo unloads at a Rate of 125 points per ship per turn.

Amphibious TFs not docked at a friendly port unload at a different rate, depending on port size, amount of free dock space, and the types of ships in the TFs. Amphibious ship types, with attached landing craft, will unload faster than non-amphibious ships.
[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
ny59giants
Posts: 9883
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2005 12:02 pm

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by ny59giants »

Ok, that is most of my useful documentation that you guys and others may want to refer to from time to time.
[center]Image[/center]
User avatar
Kitakami
Posts: 1302
Joined: Thu May 02, 2002 11:08 pm
Location: The bridge of the DNTK Kitakami

RE: Going The Distance: BTS 4.6 MichaelU/lb4269 (A) vs bristolduke (J)

Post by Kitakami »

@ny59giants-san: domou arigatou gozaimashita! That is some good reading.
Tenno Heika Banzai!
Post Reply

Return to “After Action Reports”