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Question about Soviet armaments - 11/2/2017 2:52:27 PM   
Tollwut

 

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Hi guys, quick question here:

I'm currently playing in a campaign as the Axis and am evaluating my overall campaign efficacy. It's October 1941 and I've managed to destroy about 90-100 Soviet armament industry points.

Now my question is

firstly, what is the total amount of Soviet armament points?

And secondly, what downriver effect will the destruction of 100 Soviet armament points have on the Red Army's ability to wage war? Please let me know if you know anything.

Many thanks,
Tollwut

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"I'll show you where Iron Crosses bloom..." (Steiner)
Post #: 1
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/2/2017 3:08:55 PM   
Stelteck

 

Posts: 1243
Joined: 7/20/2004
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Hi.
I cannot look at the turn currently but if i remember well total amount of Armament point soviet side if 380.

In current balance of the game the soviet will experience a brief shortage of armament point in autumn 1941, but this will be cured beginning of 1942. (New armament production factor for AA factories and far less units to equip).
The limiting factor of the soviet army is manpower and not Armament points.

Loosing 100 Armament points production will have little effect. I have no idea which amount could have a significant effect. (Leading to surplus of manpower because you cannot give weapons to your troops fast enough). Maybe 200 destroyed.

This surplus of armament points is mostly due to the fact that it is not really possible to use a AA excess.
You cannot say. Hey, looks like i have tons of armament points left, let's use them by building tons of 203mm Howitzer support units !! Or expansive cavalry squads !!!

There is a maximum number of 203mm Howitzer or cavalry squads you could built per turn, whatever your number of AA points left.
You cannot built more than 200 cavalry squads a turn.
For 203mm, do not remember but probably less than 10.

Due to this hard cap limit, it is very hard to accelerate troop production with more armament points production and so they are not so critical.


< Message edited by Stelteck -- 11/2/2017 4:16:19 PM >

(in reply to Tollwut)
Post #: 2
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/3/2017 9:53:09 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 903
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Hi.
I cannot look at the turn currently but if i remember well total amount of Armament point soviet side if 380.

In current balance of the game the soviet will experience a brief shortage of armament point in autumn 1941, but this will be cured beginning of 1942. (New armament production factor for AA factories and far less units to equip).
The limiting factor of the soviet army is manpower and not Armament points.

Loosing 100 Armament points production will have little effect. I have no idea which amount could have a significant effect. (Leading to surplus of manpower because you cannot give weapons to your troops fast enough). Maybe 200 destroyed.

This surplus of armament points is mostly due to the fact that it is not really possible to use a AA excess.
You cannot say. Hey, looks like i have tons of armament points left, let's use them by building tons of 203mm Howitzer support units !! Or expansive cavalry squads !!!

There is a maximum number of 203mm Howitzer or cavalry squads you could built per turn, whatever your number of AA points left.
You cannot built more than 200 cavalry squads a turn.
For 203mm, do not remember but probably less than 10.

Due to this hard cap limit, it is very hard to accelerate troop production with more armament points production and so they are not so critical.


The Ground Elements that appear to have a hard maximum number per turn are

45mm ATG M37 - 200
45mm ATG M42 - 150

Cav Sqd - 200
Cav Sqd 41 - 200
Cav Sqd 43 - 250

Motor Cycle Sqd - 37

Most of the others have a default %.

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 3
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/4/2017 3:46:31 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 903
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
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Anyway, back to your first question re armament points: The Russians start the game with

Armaments - 370
Heavy Industry - 236
Manpower - 3936
Vehicle - 150

(if you need to know any more of this just start a Human vs human game and End turn to where you want to be)

(in reply to 56ajax)
Post #: 4
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/4/2017 6:18:21 AM   
Tollwut

 

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Thanks guys for your replies. It's been a great help (albeit in a depressing sort of way, heh.)

So I surmise my plan to cripple the Red Army through quick seizure of the Donbas, Kharkov etc. won't actually work after all. Current Red Army is in pretty bad shape though. It's down to 4 million men, 35.000 artillery and 4000 tanks.

I also managed to destroy some tank, vehicle and airplane factories. Is there a way to tally how much and which industry exactly you destroyed?

Cheers. :)

_____________________________

"I'll show you where Iron Crosses bloom..." (Steiner)

(in reply to 56ajax)
Post #: 5
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/4/2017 2:17:30 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 3064
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tollwut

Thanks guys for your replies. It's been a great help (albeit in a depressing sort of way, heh.)

So I surmise my plan to cripple the Red Army through quick seizure of the Donbas, Kharkov etc. won't actually work after all. Current Red Army is in pretty bad shape though. It's down to 4 million men, 35.000 artillery and 4000 tanks.

I also managed to destroy some tank, vehicle and airplane factories. Is there a way to tally how much and which industry exactly you destroyed?

Cheers. :)


The plan could work but is not the easiest thing to accomplish against a good Soviet player. You literly will have to threaten multiple different areas with at risk industry to make this work. If you only have one axis of advance then your campaign will more than likely be doomed to failure.


The only current way is to keep a tally on your own of the factories/Arms/vehicles etc that you have destroyed. Even though this would be a really nice addition in WiTE 2.0.


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Post #: 6
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/4/2017 2:19:09 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 3064
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tollwut

Thanks guys for your replies. It's been a great help (albeit in a depressing sort of way, heh.)

So I surmise my plan to cripple the Red Army through quick seizure of the Donbas, Kharkov etc. won't actually work after all. Current Red Army is in pretty bad shape though. It's down to 4 million men, 35.000 artillery and 4000 tanks.

I also managed to destroy some tank, vehicle and airplane factories. Is there a way to tally how much and which industry exactly you destroyed?

Cheers. :)


The plan could work but is not the easiest thing to accomplish against a good Soviet player. You literly will have to threaten multiple different areas with at risk industry to make this work. If you only have one axis of advance then your campaign will more than likely be doomed to failure.


The only current way is to keep a tally on your own of the factories/Arms/vehicles etc that you have destroyed. Even though this would be a really nice addition in WiTE 2.0.



There is a GREAT post by "Loki" on Soviet Industry. Do a search and you will have some invaluable information that still holds true in current patch.

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 7
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/4/2017 2:31:20 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 2373
Joined: 3/20/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
There is a GREAT post by "Loki" on Soviet Industry. Do a search and you will have some invaluable information that still holds true in current patch.


Was that from the aar? Is it this one?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3821747&mpage=3&key=

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 8
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/4/2017 2:49:17 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 3064
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
There is a GREAT post by "Loki" on Soviet Industry. Do a search and you will have some invaluable information that still holds true in current patch.


Was that from the aar? Is it this one?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3821747&mpage=3&key=



There is another one that has the minimum requirements of HI and Arms to hold onto as a Soviet before an effect will be seen.


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Post #: 9
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/4/2017 2:51:19 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 2373
Joined: 3/20/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
There is another one that has the minimum requirements of HI and Arms to hold onto as a Soviet before an effect will be seen.



This one, although more in reaction to chaos45?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3907075&mpage=1&key=Loki%2Cindustry�

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 10
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/4/2017 2:53:10 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 3064
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
There is another one that has the minimum requirements of HI and Arms to hold onto as a Soviet before an effect will be seen.



This one, although more in reaction to chaos45?

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3907075&mpage=1&key=Loki%2Cindustry�


This one:

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3834612

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Post #: 11
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/4/2017 2:53:37 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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To be honest any post by Loki is worth reading since he is a data miner :)

< Message edited by HardLuckYetAgain -- 11/4/2017 2:58:28 PM >


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Post #: 12
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/4/2017 2:57:07 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 2373
Joined: 3/20/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

To be honest any post by Loki is worth readying since he is a data miner :)


Anyone who does spreadsheets is dear to my heart!

Many thanks for the link!

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 11/4/2017 2:58:08 PM >

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 13
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/4/2017 3:00:05 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 3064
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

To be honest any post by Loki is worth readying since he is a data miner :)


Anyone who does spreadsheets is dear to my heart!

Many thanks for the link!


Welcome, there is another AAR where Loki and Pelton debate and come up with the firm number on what to save. That is the other part to those linked urls above. But ya Loki has some intense studies into the game. I had a hard enough time just passing 1st grade myself :(


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Post #: 14
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/4/2017 3:02:53 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 3064
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

To be honest any post by Loki is worth readying since he is a data miner :)


Anyone who does spreadsheets is dear to my heart!

Many thanks for the link!


Welcome, there is another AAR where Loki and Pelton debate and come up with the firm number on what to save. That is the other part to those linked urls above. But ya Loki has some intense studies into the game. I had a hard enough time just passing 1st grade myself :(



Just hope people realize that some of the Soviet evacuation has changed even from when they wrote this. I implore people to look at the upgrade schedule on the factory to make sure that factory does or does not upgrade now for it to be saved to be on the safe side.

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Post #: 15
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/5/2017 11:07:57 AM   
Dinglir


Posts: 560
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Just hope people realize that some of the Soviet evacuation has changed even from when they wrote this. I implore people to look at the upgrade schedule on the factory to make sure that factory does or does not upgrade now for it to be saved to be on the safe side.


I was wondering why you evacuated the SU-2's from Kharkov in our game. Are you saying they will now upgrade to something else?

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 16
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/5/2017 3:44:32 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 3064
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Just hope people realize that some of the Soviet evacuation has changed even from when they wrote this. I implore people to look at the upgrade schedule on the factory to make sure that factory does or does not upgrade now for it to be saved to be on the safe side.


I was wondering why you evacuated the SU-2's from Kharkov in our game. Are you saying they will now upgrade to something else?


The SU-2 is a "pyrrhic" victory. I do it just to not let the Germans say they destroyed a factory. Take it for what it is worth ;-)

_____________________________


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Post #: 17
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/5/2017 3:46:56 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 2373
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Just hope people realize that some of the Soviet evacuation has changed even from when they wrote this. I implore people to look at the upgrade schedule on the factory to make sure that factory does or does not upgrade now for it to be saved to be on the safe side.


I was wondering why you evacuated the SU-2's from Kharkov in our game. Are you saying they will now upgrade to something else?


The SU-2 is a "pyrrhic" victory. I do it just to not let the Germans say they destroyed a factory. Take it for what it is worth ;-)


U-2 evacuated forward. Su-2 evacuated to deny a German victory. Your aircraft factory evac plan is eclectic to say the least.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 18
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/5/2017 4:17:07 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 3064
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Just hope people realize that some of the Soviet evacuation has changed even from when they wrote this. I implore people to look at the upgrade schedule on the factory to make sure that factory does or does not upgrade now for it to be saved to be on the safe side.


I was wondering why you evacuated the SU-2's from Kharkov in our game. Are you saying they will now upgrade to something else?


The SU-2 is a "pyrrhic" victory. I do it just to not let the Germans say they destroyed a factory. Take it for what it is worth ;-)


U-2 evacuated forward. Su-2 evacuated to deny a German victory. Your aircraft factory evac plan is eclectic to say the least.



hehehehehehe, ya.

I have been rethinking the U-2 situation lately. They may be useful after all.

_____________________________


(in reply to Telemecus)
Post #: 19
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/5/2017 4:18:37 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 3064
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Just hope people realize that some of the Soviet evacuation has changed even from when they wrote this. I implore people to look at the upgrade schedule on the factory to make sure that factory does or does not upgrade now for it to be saved to be on the safe side.


I was wondering why you evacuated the SU-2's from Kharkov in our game. Are you saying they will now upgrade to something else?


The SU-2 is a "pyrrhic" victory. I do it just to not let the Germans say they destroyed a factory. Take it for what it is worth ;-)


U-2 evacuated forward. Su-2 evacuated to deny a German victory. Your aircraft factory evac plan is eclectic to say the least.



hehehehehehe, ya.

I have been rethinking the U-2 situation lately. They may be useful after all.


But I'm really concentrating on beta WiTE 2.0 now.

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 20
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/5/2017 4:21:05 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 3064
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain


quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir


quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
Just hope people realize that some of the Soviet evacuation has changed even from when they wrote this. I implore people to look at the upgrade schedule on the factory to make sure that factory does or does not upgrade now for it to be saved to be on the safe side.


I was wondering why you evacuated the SU-2's from Kharkov in our game. Are you saying they will now upgrade to something else?


The SU-2 is a "pyrrhic" victory. I do it just to not let the Germans say they destroyed a factory. Take it for what it is worth ;-)


U-2 evacuated forward. Su-2 evacuated to deny a German victory. Your aircraft factory evac plan is eclectic to say the least.



hehehehehehe, ya.

I have been rethinking the U-2 situation lately. They may be useful after all.


But I'm really concentrating on beta WiTE 2.0 now.



I just try and keep an open mind about things since we never stop learning. To have one way of doing something is not a good process even though I have been guilty of doing so.

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 21
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/5/2017 5:53:41 PM   
Dinglir


Posts: 560
Joined: 3/10/2016
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain
I have been rethinking the U-2 situation lately. They may be useful after all.


Whatever happens in our game from now on, I will consider it a major victory to me - just because of the above sentence.

You may recant, you may "explain", you may ignore or you may regret - it changes nothing

VICTORY FOR ME - HURRAY!!!!

_____________________________

To be is to do -- Socrates
To do is to be -- Jean-Paul Sartre
Do be do be do -- Frank Sinatra

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 22
RE: Question about Soviet armaments - 11/5/2017 6:08:44 PM   
Telemecus


Posts: 2373
Joined: 3/20/2016
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dinglir
You may recant, you may "explain", you may ignore or you may regret - it changes nothing

VICTORY FOR ME - HURRAY!!!!


The last words spoken in the bunker at Berlin ...

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 23
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