Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

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Rusty1961
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Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Rusty1961 »

Okay, my opponent has about 100,000 troops in Australia. They are being reduced to their two enclaves-Budaburg and Rockhampton. Both ports/airfields are closed due to my consistent bomb damage.

It is 8/43 and I need to know about how many VPs I get for crushing those forces ( I know my opponent is planning a Auto-victory for January of '44. He is shy of the 2-1 now, but he is good.

So do I just keep the ports and fields closed and let his forces die on the vine or use my forces in AUS to crush him? I have enough planes to prevent any evacuation attempts.

Thank you!
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Rusty1961
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Rusty1961 »

btw..he is Japanese and it is Scen 28.
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Anachro
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Anachro »

Others might think otherwise but this is my thought process:

1. Realistically, the Allies would never have let the Japanese remain in Australia. Command probably would have pushed for their destruction or surrender.

2. From my standpoint, it makes sense to bottle them up and keep them there. If destroyed, the Japanese can rebuild them on the home islands and use for home defense. Let them wither on the vine.
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Rusty1961
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Rusty1961 »

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Others might think otherwise but this is my thought process:

1. Realistically, the Allies would never have let the Japanese remain in Australia. Command probably would have pushed for their destruction or surrender.

2. From my standpoint, it makes sense to bottle them up and keep them there. If destroyed, the Japanese can rebuilt them on the home islands and use for home defense. Let the wither on the vine.

Agreed, but how many points can I get from crushing them? I don't want him to get an AV on points.
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

Auto-victory at any time in 1944 requires 3:1.

Is he good?" He has, you say, 100,000 troops "trapped." Are they really?

OTOH, he is making you, in a crucial mid-war time period,. pay them a lot of attention and not do other things. So maybe he IS good.
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BillBrown
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by BillBrown »

I say crush them, that will free up your troops and air units to continue the attack somewhere else.
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Lecivius
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Lecivius »

"Crush the enemy, see them driven before you, and hear da lamentations of da women" [:D]
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

"Crush the enemy, see them driven before you, and hear da lamentations of da women" [:D]

And his empire was gone within two generations.
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pontiouspilot
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by pontiouspilot »

Have you ever drank Bundsberg rum? I say leave them alone and they will kill themselves with that swill!!
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Others might think otherwise but this is my thought process:

1. Realistically, the Allies would never have let the Japanese remain in Australia. Command probably would have pushed for their destruction or surrender.

2. From my standpoint, it makes sense to bottle them up and keep them there. If destroyed, the Japanese can rebuild them on the home islands and use for home defense. Let them wither on the vine.

I would rather kill them, because:

1) Good training for Allied units. Assemble a large enough force to kill them and then do so. If they truly are trapped, this is a free "XP Pinata", in gaming parlance. Successive, good-odds attacks on the part of your units will ramp up their XP, making future fights easier and faster.

2) VPs. About 100K troops is... a lot of troops. That's a few thousand VPs at least.
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Lecivius
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Lecivius »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

"Crush the enemy, see them driven before you, and hear da lamentations of da women" [:D]

And his empire was gone within two generations.

Yeah, but I bet it was a fun ride!! [;)]
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

2) VPs. About 100K troops is... a lot of troops. That's a few thousand VPs at least.

I doubt it. He says 100k troops, not squads. 1 VP per six devices. Depends a lot on the mix. But I don't see multiple thousands. I've killed 70k stacks in our game and seen 400 VP, maybe.
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

"Crush the enemy, see them driven before you, and hear da lamentations of da women" [:D]

And his empire was gone within two generations.

Yeah, but I bet it was a fun ride!! [;)]

A huge percentage of people living in Europe have Mongol DNA. Recent new corporations selling genealogy tests have shown people just how prevalent rape was in the Golden Horde. Not saying rape is fun, but it's a testament to how deep the cut was on world history in those decades.
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Lecivius
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Lecivius »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58




And his empire was gone within two generations.

Yeah, but I bet it was a fun ride!! [;)]

A huge percentage of people living in Europe have Mongol DNA. Recent new corporations selling genealogy tests have shown people just how prevalent rape was in the Golden Horde. Not saying rape is fun, but it's a testament to how deep the cut was on world history in those decades.

Methinks, perhaps, you and I are talking about two different things.
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Aurorus
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Aurorus »

Japan does not have an infinite force pool. Units destroyed and rebuilt drain devices and ultimately heavy industry. When they return, they return as exp. 40 or so units. Would you rather have a device go to a 40 exp. unit or an 85 exp. unit? Every device that he uses to rebuild an exp. 40 unit is a device that cannt be placed in an 85 exp. unit. Crush him. Always crush him when you have the enemy isolated... always... always.
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geofflambert
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by geofflambert »

Crush them and use the juices rendered to make malaria vaccines.

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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Crush them and use the juices rendered to make malaria vaccines.
... and the rest of the remnants to "grease the tank treads" - Patton's orders! [X(]
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Lokasenna
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

2) VPs. About 100K troops is... a lot of troops. That's a few thousand VPs at least.

I doubt it. He says 100k troops, not squads. 1 VP per six devices. Depends a lot on the mix. But I don't see multiple thousands. I've killed 70k stacks in our game and seen 400 VP, maybe.

100K troops at 17 "troops" per squad device = 5882 squads. Plus guns, vehicles... I know that in my game when I eliminated ~300K troops over the course of a few months, it was north of 5K LCU points at least.

I think for our game your recon was either overestimating or I was able to extricate some in between attacks.
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Lokasenna
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Lokasenna »

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lecivius




Yeah, but I bet it was a fun ride!! [;)]

A huge percentage of people living in Europe have Mongol DNA. Recent new corporations selling genealogy tests have shown people just how prevalent rape was in the Golden Horde. Not saying rape is fun, but it's a testament to how deep the cut was on world history in those decades.

Methinks, perhaps, you and I are talking about two different things.

I got it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBGOQ7SsJrw

I think Bullwinkle did too, but then skipped right to the real world analogous force.
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Japanese forces in AUS...let'em die of supply or crush them?

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

2) VPs. About 100K troops is... a lot of troops. That's a few thousand VPs at least.

I doubt it. He says 100k troops, not squads. 1 VP per six devices. Depends a lot on the mix. But I don't see multiple thousands. I've killed 70k stacks in our game and seen 400 VP, maybe.

100K troops at 17 "troops" per squad device = 5882 squads. Plus guns, vehicles... I know that in my game when I eliminated ~300K troops over the course of a few months, it was north of 5K LCU points at least.

I think for our game your recon was either overestimating or I was able to extricate some in between attacks.

Even if all of the 100k were infantry squads (and some of the IJA are 19 men per depending on his upgrades), your numbers at 1 VP per 6 is less than 1000 VP. And of course not all of the 100k are infantry. Without opening a new Japan game I can't see in Tracker or my Allied games what the exact device counts are on LCUs like arty (only see load costs), but looking at some of mine the device counts per unit are in the hundreds at most, again divide by 6. Without knowing his mix or how many non-human devices are already gone it's impossible to know exact numbers, but several thousand VP are still hard to get to IMO.

I think the more interesting question is if these units should be destroyed in mid-1943. Some posters are in Hulk, Smash! mode. That's one way to go. I think the issue is more nuanced. Some things to consider:

1. The net VPs gained will be a result of his losses and those of the Allies in taking them out. Killing 100k men is not free. And an Aussie squad costs double an IJA.

2. Right now the LCUs are effectively removed from the Japanese OOB. Yes, if destroyed they can be bought back at a huge EXP reduction. But in that case they are not worthless. They can at worst go garrison duty and free up a better unit to fight. And at best they can fight themselves and gain experience, maybe in Burma where conditions are favorable for a low EXP unit to survive.

3. Time to destroy them with Allied units that could be doing something else.

4. Loss of bombing practice targets for Allied planes.

But mostly the issue is right now the Allies know where they are and what they're doing. If they are truly isolated the opportunity to destroy them will still exist later when more Allied forces are on the map and there is more slack capacity to kill them. The OP had a misconception as to auto-vic levels in 1944, so gaining the VPs now is not as pressing as he thought. You could argue that killing and buying back costs Japan supply to resurrect, but OTOH they aren't costing Japan supply now, and he might choose not to buy back at all, so no supply there either.

If the issue is discomfort at seeing red on the OZ mainland, well, that's a different story. Not a strategy issue.
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