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Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/19/2017 5:23:13 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
I love decisions. I think SC does it well but I feel sometimes it misses the mark on making decision meaningful and/or interesting.

I will nitpickingly review all decision, country by country and give an assessment of them with a a verdict of Keep, Modify or Drop.

Criteria:
If you say Yes on a decision 100% of the time, that's a red flag for me. I would argue either it's should happen automatically and have a different decision fill it slot or that the decision should be modified so that the alternative option be made more palatable. I'll allow for some loop-sided event acting as 'ransom', pay or suffer the consequence kinda thing but only if its meaningful or not too frequent. Decision that allow a small boon for a price are also totally ok (SOE, human torpedo etc.).

===UK Decisions===

DE 100: Support the Free French
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: The price is so cheap, it's not even a real ransom. No reason not to support free french and DE 118 Essentially makes this decision redundant. Plus I think they only definitively cast their lot with the free french after the raid anyway.

DE 101: UK Destroyer for Bases
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Make it automatic, People pick yes 100% of the time.

DE 102: UK Deploy 7th Armoured in Egypt?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: On the off chance you need it to support France.

DE 103 – UK: Shift Convoy Routes From the Mediterranean?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: For the aggressive UK player.

DE 104 – UK: Support a Pro-Allied Coup in Yugoslavia?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: This is a bit of ransom for both side. Germany knows its coming but the UK has to pay.

DE 105 – UK: Shall we Move Our Capital to Egypt?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: I don't see the capital being relocated outside the commonwealth. Move it to Toronto 100% of the time.

DE 106 – UK: Impose Economic Sanctions on Iraq?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Ransom

DE 107 – UK: Send Australian And New Zealand to Egypt?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: If you don't need them imminently...

DE 108 – UK: Invest Funds in the SOE?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 109 and DE 115- UK: Form the Polish I Corps?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: I'm not a particular fan of those a single corp event since those aren't super meaningful in the grand scheme of things. Either gift them or change the event to impact more than one unit. Something 'we are getting volunteers from places occupied by the axis do we arm them?' that would encompass polish, free french etc. It could be organic in the sense that for each conquered country you get corp or garrison unit(s) depending on the size of country.

DE 110 - UK: Form the Polish II Corps?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: See DE 109

DE 111 - UK: Transform the L.D.V. Into the Home Guard?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 112 - UK: Strengthen our Position in East Africa?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Make it automatic or make it a proper ransom, costing more with more Italian unit spawning.

DE 113 – UK: Prepare Operation Chariot?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Ransom

DE 114 – UK: Prepare Commando Raids?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 116 and DE 117 - UK: Lease the Azores from Portugal?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 118 - UK: Launch Operation Catapult
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No issue

DE 119 – UK: Order Operation Menace?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Not super meaningful even when successful. Maybe replace with 'increased funding to free french?'

DE 120 – UK: Operation Countenance?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Ransom

DE 121 – UK: Increase our Irregular Forces?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 122 – UK: Deploy a Coastal Command?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 123 – UK: Deploy the BEF in France?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: All the cool kids do it...

DE 124 and DE 125 – UK: Demand Ireland Provides Access
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: One bully Ireland for ports decision is enough for all takeovers.

DE 126 UK: Operation Fork: Send a Force to occupy Iceland?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Make it automatic

DE 128 – UK: Send an Expedition to Narvik?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: I generally favor doing all military operation yourself but due to the limitation on transport speed I understand this one has to use an event. Make the unit appear at beginning of the turn at full supply though.

========

Next stop French Decisions!

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 1/8/2018 11:24:13 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/20/2017 11:06:07 AM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
==France Decisions==

DE 200 – France: Form the Polish I Corps?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Just gift it.

DE 201 – France: Reincorporate Vichy France
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Make it automatic

DE 202 – France: Ban the Communist Party
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No issue

DE 203 – France: Recruit Spanish Exiles
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Bit more novel since it's an engineer unit plus it's one where people actually decline taking the unit.

DE 204 – France: Send an Anglo-French
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No issue

DE 205 – France: Send an Expedition to Narvik?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: See DE 128

=========

Next stop USA Decisions!


< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 10/25/2017 2:59:19 PM >

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 2
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/20/2017 1:06:56 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 721
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
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quote:

DE 102: UK Deploy 7th Armoured in Egypt?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: On the off chance you need it to support France.


Or if you suspect Sea Lion might be on the cards

quote:


DE 124 and DE 125 – UK: Demand Ireland Provides Access
Verdict: Modify?
Explanation: Anybody uses these? Now that ports don't have spotting range there's even less reason. At the very least the two event could be collapsed.


I like to pick DE124 but not DE125 - those ports are very useful, especially if facing Sea Lion...

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 3
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/20/2017 1:17:29 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
Didn't think of that re DE 124. I'll edit.

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 4
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/20/2017 1:58:54 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 721
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline
Given that, if facing Sea Lion (or even just a pounding by air units), the ports in southern England are basically no-go areas...

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 5
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/23/2017 1:02:57 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
== USA Decisions ==

DE 300 – USA: Send Tanks to Cairo?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No Issue

DE 301 – USA: Keep French Aircraft?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: I'd rather the planes be delivered to France if it's still around by Aug but I get for simplicity sake it be tied to France falls.

DE 302 – USA: Equip the Brazilian Expeditionary
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: A single corp ain't super relevant. Maybe a event on seeking South America to join allies (extra units) vs pursuing additional trade with them.

DE 303 – USA: Offer to Surrender?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No issue

DE 304 – USA: Ship Supplies to the USSR via Vladivostock?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Since Goods sent via the UK to USSR convoy don't get doubled, I don't get why this gets to. I still say make it 1 for 1 but increase USA production to match. Also make saying no a more viable. Retaining 40 mp per turn hasn't much of an impact but retaining 80mp, can allow for a faster USA mobilization.

DE 305 – USA: Give the British Permission to repair?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Make it automatic

DE 306 – USA: Transfer Supplies to the USSR via Persia?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: See DE 304, make transfer 1 to 1, increase USA production. With the USA retaining 160mp, that second front might come very early (if the USSR can weather the storm!)

DE 307 – USA: Send a US Marine Brigade to Garrison Iceland?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Make it automatic

DE 308 – USA: Order O.S.S. to Intrigue?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Change the event so that that Algeria surrenders if there is 2 USA unit next to the corp in Alger (kinda like the Iraq garrison surrendering thing)

DE 309 – USA: Support Spanish Republican Resistance?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 310 – USA: Offer to Surrender?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Should be changed to decisive victory (the USSR equivalent which also give major victory just require its three main city to be under Axis control with no UK requirement, this one with USSR down for the count and London in Axis hand is more stringent pretty definitive.)

==========

Next stop USSR decisions!

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 12/6/2017 1:40:12 PM >

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 6
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/23/2017 4:40:48 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
==USSR Decisions==

DE 400 – USSR: Form the Polish Armies?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: 2 armies is meaningful enough although I'm tempted to just gift it.

DE 401 – USSR: Attack Finland in the Winter War?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Make preparation to winter warfare a consequence of accepting and the only way to acquire it. Gift 1 Army, 1 Tank and 1 Fighter if declined. It might seem like a lot of hardware but these represent forces not loss to casualties in a war with the finns. The winter strike hitting the USSR is going to cost lots of MPP as well as lower morale.

DE 402 – USSR: Transfer Industry to the Urals?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Make it a proper ransom or make it automatic.

DE 403 – USSR: Operation Countenance
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Ransom

DE 404 – USSR: Sign an Armistice with Finland?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Ransom for Germany

DE 405 – USSR: Form I Polish Corps?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Just gift it

DE 406 – USSR: Order the Red Army to advance into Poland?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Make it automatic

DE 407 – USSR: Issue Order 270?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Make it automatic

DE 408 – USSR: Should Stalin stay in Moscow
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No issue

DE 409 – USSR: Learn the Lessons of the Winter War?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: See DE 401

DE 410 – USSR: Form a National Committee
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Make it automatic

DE 411 – USSR: Prepare for Winter Warfare?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: See DE 401

DE 412 and DE 413 – USSR: Accept the German Offer?
Verdict - Keep
Explanation: No issue

DE 414 – USSR: Annex the Baltic States?
Verdict - Drop
Explanation: Make it automatic

DE 415 – USSR: Should we Prepare to Send Supplies via Lake Ladoga
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 416 – USSR: Shall we Deploy Anti-Tank Units?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Three AA is meaningful enough. Also tempted to just gift it, since people will pick yes 100% of the time.

DE 417 – USSR: Offer to Surrender?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No issue

DE 418 – USSR: Seize Bessarabia?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Make it automatic.

==============

Next stop Poland Decisions!


< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 10/25/2017 3:04:02 PM >

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 7
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/25/2017 11:28:06 AM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
==Poland Decisions==

DE 500 – Poland: Head to Britain or France?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: But just make the unit free. See the DE 109 and DE 200.

DE 501 – Poland – Evacuate Polish Soldiers?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: But just make the unit free. See DE 115

==============

Next stop Germany Decisions!

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 10/25/2017 12:22:01 PM >

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 8
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/25/2017 12:01:33 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 721
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

==Poland Decisions==

DE 500 – Poland: Head to Britain or France?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: But just make the unit free.

DE 501 – Poland – Evacuate Polish Soldiers?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: But just make the unit free.

==============

Next stop Germany Decisions!


Why free? Won't those units have to be armed once the evacuated soldiers make it to Britain or France?

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 9
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/25/2017 12:20:48 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
Just to streamline things a bit. Both sides already gets freebies anyway. I'm not a big fan of decisions that are tied to a the addition of a single corp, because a single corp is pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. This one its actually 2 decisions. At least by making it free, you can ditch the follow-up decision.

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 10/25/2017 3:28:24 PM >

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 10
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/25/2017 2:39:24 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

Posts: 1841
Joined: 7/22/2013
Status: online
Thanks for putting this together KorutZelva, definitely a great way for us to review it all as well

_____________________________


(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 11
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/25/2017 6:59:51 PM   
The Land

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 2/19/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

Just to streamline things a bit. Both sides already gets freebies anyway. I'm not a big fan of decisions that are tied to a the addition of a single corp, because a single corp is pretty inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. This one its actually 2 decisions. At least by making it free, you can ditch the follow-up decision.


Less inconsequential perhaps in that specific setting - Britain has very few land counters, and France is very limited in its ability to produce any extra ones at that point in time!

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 12
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/26/2017 4:09:45 PM   
xwormwood


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Joined: 8/28/2000
From: Bremen, Germany
Status: offline
I wouldn't drop any DE. But what I'm preaching for some time is to poisen some DEs, and to knit them together with a follow up DE for the opposing side.
Never grant something for free, don't ask "do you want a cookie for free"?.
Best would be to play some games of Twilight Struggle, and than you get the general Idea (playing the opponents event card).
It is that easy to bring the already often good decision events onto the next level.

_____________________________

"You will be dead, so long as you refuse to die" (George MacDonald)

(in reply to The Land)
Post #: 13
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/27/2017 11:38:07 AM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: The Land
Less inconsequential perhaps in that specific setting - Britain has very few land counters, and France is very limited in its ability to produce any extra ones at that point in time!


True. I'm alright with the first part of the decision.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xwormwood
I wouldn't drop any DE. But what I'm preaching for some time is to poisen some DEs, and to knit them together with a follow up DE for the opposing side.
Never grant something for free, don't ask "do you want a cookie for free"?.
Best would be to play some games of Twilight Struggle, and than you get the general Idea (playing the opponents event card).
It is that easy to bring the already often good decision events onto the next level.


Twilight struggle is great but I'm trying to find improvement within the realm the limitation of the engine. :-)

If we're talking pie in the sky ideas, mine would be a revamp of the diplomacy where you countries have natural 'Axis-puppet, Axis-leaning, Neutral, Allied leaning, Allied puppet' which you can invest to try to shift and depending on its leaning, investment and military victories you can earn 'clout' which you can cash in for boons.

In practice it would work like this

Spain (Axis leaning)

Current Clout: 20

Action:

Ask for port Access
Cost: 10

Favorable trade deal (+20 per turn)
Cost: 25

Unfavorable trade deal (-10 per turn)
Reward: 15 (basically giving food stuff to spain gets you clout)

Volunteer Expeditionary Force for Russia (one free corp)
Cost: 5

Troop passage to Gibraltar
Cost: 60

Joins Axis
Cost: 100

Colonial concession
Reward: 20 (might have impact on other countries such as Vichy France)

Military material 100mpp for 8 turn (Spain start with an extra tank and army with techs if it joins)
Reward: 20

======

Basically you do push for better economic benefit or military involvement? Are you willing to take on a couple ****ty deals to entice alliance? Trying to figure out ways where Spain doesn't have to join the Axis to have a shot at winning. :) Also some deals could be revoked if the opposing team spends enough clout to cancel them. Like spending twice the amount of clout to cancel a trade deal, a bit like the allies would buy Turkey chrome output to prevent it from reaching Germany.

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 10/27/2017 11:40:27 AM >

(in reply to The Land)
Post #: 14
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/27/2017 12:29:22 PM   
crispy131313


Posts: 1013
Joined: 11/30/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

quote:

ORIGINAL: The Land
Less inconsequential perhaps in that specific setting - Britain has very few land counters, and France is very limited in its ability to produce any extra ones at that point in time!


True. I'm alright with the first part of the decision.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Xwormwood
I wouldn't drop any DE. But what I'm preaching for some time is to poisen some DEs, and to knit them together with a follow up DE for the opposing side.
Never grant something for free, don't ask "do you want a cookie for free"?.
Best would be to play some games of Twilight Struggle, and than you get the general Idea (playing the opponents event card).
It is that easy to bring the already often good decision events onto the next level.


Twilight struggle is great but I'm trying to find improvement within the realm the limitation of the engine. :-)

If we're talking pie in the sky ideas, mine would be a revamp of the diplomacy where you countries have natural 'Axis-puppet, Axis-leaning, Neutral, Allied leaning, Allied puppet' which you can invest to try to shift and depending on its leaning, investment and military victories you can earn 'clout' which you can cash in for boons.

In practice it would work like this

Spain (Axis leaning)

Current Clout: 20

Action:

Ask for port Access
Cost: 10

This is already gifted in the game.


Favorable trade deal (+20 per turn)
Cost: 25

German Decision: The development of the Wolfram mines was largely a success. Franco has proposed repaying the debt from the civil war in steady supply shipments of Wolfram which will begin January 1, 1942. However, although Franco owes this debt to Germany the Spanish government may view the transfer of vital resources as a contribution to our war effort, and may move further from the Axis. We should consider now that the mines are operational we will have full access to its resources when Spain joins the war. Should we accept the resource payments to eliminate Spain's debt from the civil war?

Unfavorable trade deal (-10 per turn)
Reward: 15 (basically giving food stuff to spain gets you clout)

Italian Decision: As we have already agreed to help provide civil aid to our Allies in Spain by shipping German food supplies, it is advised that we provide additional supplies of our own to further support the people under Franco's new regime. At a continuous cost of 5 MPP per turn our Allies in Spain will receive additional supply shipments from Italy as well. We should expect our commitment to Spain to end after we have joined the conflict in Europe as our shipping lanes will certainly come under attack in the Mediterranean. Do you approve the expenditures to help our allies in Spain recover from Civil War?

Volunteer Expeditionary Force for Russia (one free corp)
Cost: 5

German Decision: Franco has permitted volunteers from Spain to join the Germany Army for the war on the Eastern Front. The volunteers will be officially known as the blue division. However, intelligence reports that Franco may be sending the Blue division to rid himself of intense fascists and anti-communists, while simultaneously repaying Germany for support during the Spanish Civil War. If our intelligence is true, acceptance of the Blue Division into the German Army may position Franco to further delay our requests of joining the Axis. Shall we accept Franco's offer and permit the Blue Division into the German Army?

Troop passage to Gibraltar
Cost: 60

Too easy.

Joins Axis
Cost: 100


This is how diplomacy already works at 100% Axis leaning


Colonial concession
Reward: 20 (might have impact on other countries such as Vichy France)

There is already the option if No Vichy but I see what you are saying


Military material 100mpp for 8 turn (Spain start with an extra tank and army with techs if it joins)
Reward: 20

German Decision: Our most recent meeting with Franco has made all too clear that our presumptions of Spain joining the Axis were taken for granted as Franco claims the military ill equipped for war and has stressed dependence on American food and oil imports. However, Franco may be exaggerating his requests of armoured vehicles, aviation fuel and other war materials to further delay any decisive action as to maintain Spain's neutral status. Our own supplies are limited, but we should consider strengthening the Spanish military and endure some upfront costs of importing other supplies to Spain so Franco has less reasons to ignore our request of Spain's entrance into the war. Mein Führer, do you approve sending Military and Civil aid to Spain? 40 MPP for 8 Turns.


======

Basically you do push for better economic benefit or military involvement? Are you willing to take on a couple ****ty deals to entice alliance? Trying to figure out ways where Spain doesn't have to join the Axis to have a shot at winning. :) Also some deals could be revoked if the opposing team spends enough clout to cancel them. Like spending twice the amount of clout to cancel a trade deal, a bit like the allies would buy Turkey chrome output to prevent it from reaching Germany.

British Decision: After continuous negotiations with the Turkish government to end trade with Germany, the Turkish government has had the audacity to continue their trade agreement with the enemy. Our government can threaten blockade measures in retaliation, a move that our government believes will leave Turkey no choice but to abruptly end their trade agreement with Germany. However, doing so is sure to damage diplomatic relations between Turkey and the Allies. Should we send a stern letter to the Turkish government with our intentions of blockading imports into the country?




Good post and I agree that diplomacy can be better incorporated. In my mod Fall Weiss II I have incorporated much of what you suggest already, I included 5 specific Decisions as examples above.


_____________________________


(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 15
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/27/2017 1:04:19 PM   
KorutZelva

 

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Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: crispy131313

Troop passage to Gibraltar
Cost: 60

Too easy.

Joins Axis
Cost: 100


This is how diplomacy already works at 100% Axis leaning





Well, from your AAR I like what you have been doing with the decisions. This clout talk is just pie in the sky talk. Like if I could build the game from the ground up.

Clout wouldn't work in the same sense as and % leaning. Clout, as I imagine, would be a currency not a threshold. Of course the value I'm pitching here are arbitrary but just an example on how that would work. Basically if you spent the 60 clout for passage in Spain, you'd be hard pressed to get 100 more needed for Franco to join. Axis-Allied leaning would be more static as they represent historical inclination. Diplo chits hits would net you some clout point if you score a hit but wouldn't get you a shift in leaning for which you would need to spend clout to induce it (I'm thinking having to 'buy out' the opponent clout in the country at a 2 to 1 ratio until it's at zero. So you can use clout defensively letting it stack in Turkey or Spain and not spend it to make shifts prohibitive for the opposite side). Certain action would need a level of leaning before they unlock, shifting Turkey from neutral to Axis sympathetic before a 'allow passage through the straits' is open to buy.

You could even have stuff where massing a big enough army on the border gets you a (one-time) clout bonus with them!

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 10/27/2017 1:11:47 PM >

(in reply to crispy131313)
Post #: 16
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/30/2017 12:28:02 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
The big one

==Germany Decisions==

DE 600 – Germany: Should Germany Honor the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Essentially a death sentence if you don't. Make it automatic. Maybe keep it as a thing the +2 exp AI does 25% of the time but 0% at other levels.

DE 601 – Germany: Should we Occupy Denmark?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: I don't like my conquering be done by event. Especially for a country so easy to conquer. Maybe resurrect the old 'establish danish protectorate' event of previous versions.

DE 602 – Germany: Should Germany Create Vichy France?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: The event itself is fine, but how Vichy France is handled should be tweaked. Right now there is not a big benefit in pressing on because you can just accept then steam rolls over the Vichy territories to get the same benefits for a tenth of the military burden. Essentially if you declare war on Algeria before mers el kebir happens, you can still get the benefit of the battleships that normally would have been your reward had you pressed on (or had England recognized Vichy). Maybe have a bigger diplomatic penalty to attacking Vichy proper, having all its colonies join instantly and bigger raise in USA/USSR war readiness. Basically encouraging to post-pone it until the USA/USSR has already joined and/or the colonies are gone.

DE 603 – Germany: Entice Franco to Enter the War?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Only change I would do is have the AI accept this decision 100% of the time rather than 25%. The only way it's going to get activated is if a human Italy player conquers Algeria in any case.

DE 604 – Germany: Should we Scrap or Refit the French Battleship Strasbourg?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: I'm at work so I'll check the condition later but I the activation of this one is not accurate in the manual. It's more specific than just vichy surrendered.

DE 605 – Germany: Enhance Our Naval Base at St. Nazaire?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 606 – Germany: Work on the Graf Zeppelin Aircraft Carrier?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No Issue

DE 607 – Germany: Form Volksgrenadier Corps?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Just gift it

DE 608 – Germany: Volkssturm with Equipment?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Just gift it

DE 609 – Germany: Form a Free Indian Legion?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Just gift it

DE 610 – Germany: Annex Lithuania?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No Issue

DE 611 – Germany: Resolve Territorial Disputes
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Given the AI difficulty in handling its Barbarossa timetable when Hungary joins late, I'd lower the 'No' odds to 25%.

DE 612 – Germany: Form the 30th U-Boat Flotilla for service in the Black Sea?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 613 – Germany: Transfer the 23rd U-Boat Flotilla to the Mediterranean?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 614 – Germany: Rescue Mussolini?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon, I'd keep all the of the 'shore up allies to prevent collapse' ransom. This is a boon but thematically in this category.

DE 615 – Germany: Form the Italian National Republican Army?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 616 – Germany: Accept Allied Surrender?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No Issue

DE 617 – Germany: Deploy the 7th Luftwaffe Division
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: No one is in that in a hurry to get a half strength unit

DE 618 – Germany: Launch Operation Panzerfaust to keep Hungary in the War?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Ransom

DE 619 – Germany: Attempt to Keep Finland in the War?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Ransom

DE 620 – Germany: Raise an Egyptian Legion?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Just gift it

DE 621 – Germany: Divide Yugoslavia
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Just in case a human player wants to gift the whole of Yugoslavia to Italy.

DE 622 & DE 623 – Germany: Continue through the Gibraltar Strait
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No Issue

DE 624 – Germany: Send Assistance to the Iraqi Rebels?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Eliminate the surrender % if aid is sent. The price for aid could be higher to compensate (75mpp?)

DE 625 – Germany: Raise a Don Cossack Cavalry
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Just gift it

DE 626 – Germany: Raise a Russian Liberation Army Corps?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Just gift it

DE 627 – Germany: Deploy Coastal Guns on the Atlantic Wall?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 630 & DE 631 – Germany: Offer the USSR a Revised Borders and Friendship Treaty?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Any reason why the AI never say yes to that one? Seems like a viable option.

DE 635 & DE 636 – Germany: Shall we Send All the Ore Via Sweden?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No Issue

DE 637 & DE 638 – Germany: Occupy Vichy France?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No Issue (although I personally prefer if its done 'manually' than by event)

DE 639 & DE 640 – Germany: Occupy Tunisia?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No Issue (although I personally prefer if its done 'manually' than by event)

DE 641 & DE 646 – Germany: Accept Allied Surrender?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No Issue

DE 642, DE 647, DE 648, DE 649, DE 671 & DE 672– Germany: Form the Afrika Korps for service in North Africa?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: That's just too much hardware to pass up, the No should be viable. No should get a free HQ, a tank, an army and a fighter (all units full strength) in Poland.

DE 643 – Germany: Shall we invade Norway?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: In the ye old days of strategic command the AI could invade Norway without events. That's how it should be IMO. However, ff Norway is to become an event thing, then I suggest going all the way. Have it harder to invade 'normally' bumping up the Olso corp strength and gift some naval assets if someone chooses no. I'm thinking a Cruiser (either light or heavy) and a destroyer. These represent the ships Germany didn't lose in an invasion. that way, someone planning to sealion might want to pass up invading Norway in favor of the additional naval assets for a showdown with the RN.

DE 645 – Germany: Shall we Deploy Dedicated Anti-Tank Units?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Three AT is meaningful enough. Also tempted to just gift it, since people will pick yes 100% of the time.

==============

Next stop Italy Decisions!


< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 10/30/2017 12:31:51 PM >

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 17
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 10/30/2017 1:42:05 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 721
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva
DE 600 – Germany: Should Germany Honor the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Essentially a death sentence if you don't. Make it automatic. Maybe keep it as a thing the +2 exp AI does 25% of the time but 0% at other levels.


I have no problem with reducing (or even eliminating) the chance of the AI rejecting it, but it's nice to have as an option for the human player, just in case you want to be crazy and see what will happen if you don't e.g. invading the USSR after Poland

quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva
DE 617 – Germany: Deploy the 7th Luftwaffe Division
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: No one is in that in a hurry to get a half strength unit


My human opponent was in one of my PBEM games, assume he wanted the extra MPPs early on to get more of a jump-start on (naval?) research (he went for Sealion...), he was also very aggressive in the use of both paratroop units in the invasion of France

quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

DE 624 – Germany: Send Assistance to the Iraqi Rebels?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Eliminate the surrender % if aid is sent. The price for aid could be higher to compensate (75mpp?)


Interesting, if the surrender % is elimated, the Allies will be required to send much stronger forces to destroy the (well dug-in) Baghdad Garrison, possibly even a bomber unit..

quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

DE 642, DE 647, DE 648, DE 649, DE 671 & DE 672– Germany: Form the Afrika Korps for service in North Africa?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: That's just too much hardware to pass up, the No should be viable. No should get a free HQ, a tank, an army and a fighter (all units full strength) in Poland.


I agree it would be nice to have a viable reason for choosing "no", though in most cases the AI really ought to say "yes", unless the situation in North Africa is hopeless

quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva
DE 643 – Germany: Shall we invade Norway?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: In the ye old days of strategic command the AI could invade Norway without events. That's how it should be IMO. However, ff Norway is to become an event thing, then I suggest going all the way. Have it harder to invade 'normally' bumping up the Olso corp strength and gift some naval assets if someone chooses no. I'm thinking a Cruiser (either light or heavy) and a destroyer. These represent the ships Germany didn't lose in an invasion. that way, someone planning to sealion might want to pass up invading Norway in favor of the additional naval assets for a showdown with the RN.


Interesting... The Kriegsmarine lost 1 heavy cruiser, 2 light cruisers and 10 destroyers in Operation Weserübung, so could see some rationale for the proposal - though if the axis so get granted additional assets for saying "no", these probably shouldn't deploy full-strength. BTW the Royal Navy also lost some significant naval assets during the battles around Narvik too, though - including the carrier HMS Glorious, and some destroyers, though those were during the Narvik intervention, which is optional



(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 18
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 11/1/2017 11:55:27 AM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
==Italy Decisions==

DE 700 – Italy: Complete the Roma Battleship
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Considering you're forfeiting a free 350 mpp unit, that's essentially like paying 550mpp for a 350mpp unit. Might as well save up the missing 150 mpp and get yourself both a BB and a Carrier. 100mpp at most.

DE 701 – Italy: Form an Italian Expeditionary Force?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: This event + DE 708 gets Italy 2 corps over their corp build limit if both are accepted. I don't know if that's intended but I think Italy corp max should be bumped by 2 so that it doesn't go over.

DE 702 – Italy: Raise the French Light Cruiser Jean de Vienne?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Should be available when Italy conquers Vichy rather than germany only.

DE 703 – Italy: Bribe Greek Politicians and Military Officers?
Verdict: Drop
Explanation: Bundle that one up DE 708

DE 704 – Italy: Prince Borghese’s Human Torpedoes?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: Boon

DE 706 & DE 707 – Italy: Continue through the Gibraltar?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: No issue

DE 708 – Italy: Declare War on Greece?
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Bundle with 703 mpp, it's basically the two steps of the same boned headed plan. Charge 25mp for 5 turn. Although for ****s-and-giggles you could also swap the 30% desertion chance for a 5% that Greece surrenders outright. :D

==========

Last stop decision wish list!

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 11/14/2017 11:17:05 PM >

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 19
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 11/1/2017 12:27:09 PM   
nnason


Posts: 208
Joined: 3/4/2016
Status: offline
First of all I think KorutZelva's discussion/ideas and Oxfordguy3 replies are great. However, I hope the developers are not hasty. There needs to be more discussion and careful thought about changes. If there is no play balance issue then well... But if play balance change is a possibility then there needs a play test.

I plan on replying in detail and hope others will weight in. Perhaps some kind of voting. IDEAS and how to vote??


_____________________________

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US Army Retired

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 20
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 11/1/2017 12:48:09 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
Don't worry nnason, I don't think I have any sway in the matter. :-)

This is just a thought exercise. If it helps improve a decision or two down the line, I'll call it a win.

(in reply to nnason)
Post #: 21
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 11/1/2017 1:02:50 PM   
crispy131313


Posts: 1013
Joined: 11/30/2013
Status: offline
You would be surprised how often the developers listen or take notice.

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Post #: 22
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 11/1/2017 1:19:58 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 721
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

==Italy Decisions==

DE 700 – Italy: Complete the Roma Battleship
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Considering you're forfeiting a free 400 mpp unit, that's essentially like paying 600mpp for a 350mpp unit. Might as well save up the missing 150 mpp and get yourself both a BB and a Carrier. 100mpp at most.


Yes, this one really isn't worth it currently - whereas Germany can get the Graf Zeppelin for 200 MPP, Italy will lose a BB and still have to pay 150MPP - nonsense! Especially as Italy will need to invest research in both Naval and Air to make the most of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva
DE 701 – Italy: Form an Italian Expeditionary Force?
Verdict: Keep
Explanation: This event + DE 708 gets Italy 2 corps over their corp build limit if both are accepted. I don't know if that's intended but I think Italy corp max should be bumped by 2 so that it doesn't go over.


I'd be fine with that, Italy's Corps limit seems very low


(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 23
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 11/1/2017 2:02:19 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: OxfordGuy3


quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

==Italy Decisions==

DE 700 – Italy: Complete the Roma Battleship
Verdict: Modify
Explanation: Considering you're forfeiting a free 400 mpp unit, that's essentially like paying 600mpp for a 350mpp unit. Might as well save up the missing 150 mpp and get yourself both a BB and a Carrier. 100mpp at most.


Yes, this one really isn't worth it currently - whereas Germany can get the Graf Zeppelin for 200 MPP, Italy will lose a BB and still have to pay 150MPP - nonsense! Especially as Italy will need to invest research in both Naval and Air to make the most of it.



Even worst it's 200mp. 25mpp for 8 turns. :)

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 24
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 11/15/2017 1:36:42 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
Wish List part 1:

Vichy offers alliance
Timing: March 1942 when Pierre Laval returns to power. Rationale: IRL, he offered Germany annexing Lorraine in exchange for a full alliance. Cost: No other cost that the reduction in germany income from lost of french territory. Effect: Lorraine becomes german territory proper, Metropolitan France and colonies (minus St-Nazaire) become an Axis Major. France activate with its fleet (minus any Mers el kebir), a couple of corps and Algiers' air.

Germany entice Japan into declaring war to the USSR

Timing: Dec 1940 (as a follow up to the pop-up about taking on the USSR) Rationale: IRL, Hitler wanted Japan to stay clear of the USSR because they figured they didn't need the help and didn't want to share the spoils anyway. The army wanted Japan to jump in the action. At the latter got their wish, they could have tried to entice Japan to join the fray.
Cost: Germany sends uboats with technology transfer and precious material as payment. (a la U-234) (-100mpp for 8 turn?)
Effect: Japan accept and pursue Hokushin-ron which will eventually be defeated in 1944 (announced by pop-up). No supply to USSR via Vladivostok. Loss of National Morale (until they get it back when they beat the Japanese in 1944). No Siberian troop transfer until dec 1944 and the units are all half strength but with an additional experience dot. With the prospect of a war with Japan being unlikely in the short term, UK and USA transfer additional naval assets and group troops from the pacific theater in 1941.

Offer protectorate to Denmark
Just the old event from previous SC instead of the current annexation one.

Concessions to the Ukrainian nationalists
Timing: When Ukraine is in the bag. Rationale: Germany didn't really tap or leverage as much as they could because they acted like assholes and sought to annex the area anyway. What if they did? Cost: 400mp (100 mpp for 4 turns) and a 5% loss of national morale for Germany (from giving up on war aims) Effect: Germany creates an Ukranian minor + bessarabia to Romania. Western Ukraine partisan are a thing of the past, Eastern Ukraine partisan in russian speaking area are halved.

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 11/15/2017 1:38:40 PM >

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 25
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 11/15/2017 4:21:39 PM   
OxfordGuy3


Posts: 721
Joined: 7/1/2012
From: Oxford, United Kingdom
Status: offline
KorutZelva - most of those sounds like pretty big game changers, in most case they sound like no-brainers to accept

Regarding Ukraine - yes Germany acted stupidly there (and in the Baltic States), but the Nazis often didn't act in their own best interests, because of their warped ideology. Jewish scientists would also have helped their war effort...

< Message edited by OxfordGuy3 -- 11/15/2017 4:22:20 PM >

(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 26
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 11/15/2017 5:29:15 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
Depends! Losing out on France for Germany is a big deal since France money would be limited in use to under tech French troops. It would situational if Germany needs a quick navy boost but would likely hurt in the long run. Also gives a greater incentive for the UK to go for targets like Syria and Algeria so they don't join if an alliance develops.

Denmark would probably be modified from the base event to cost a bit more upfront so that there's an incentive to straight up conquer if you need the cash influx in the short term (such for a sealion).

Germany might not have the sway to influence Japan attacking the USSR or not but even without a dedicated Japan event, I do wish the outcomes of what happens in the pacific was randomized. For example Japan going North on its own 15% of the time (actually having just that would be better than a dedicated event). Just high enough to force the USSR player not to assume the Siberians will be available for sure. And high enough for Axis player to occasionally grin with glee at this unexpected windfall.

Yep, it would have a big impact. It would make the convoy to the arctic to the USSR more hotly contested (but something the allies can certainly tackle with the additional naval assets). And the additional ground troops the allies get would mirror the Siberian counterpart except divided between the UK and the USA and be put into use for an early torch or D-day. (UK player could get a follow-up decision on where to deploy the pacific assets: egypt or UK) Germany is getting an early reprieve in the east but headaches in the west. With the siberian still showing up late 1944, the stakes are high to finish the USSR before that.

Ukraine one is probably the harder one to not make one sided because I don't know how big of an impact national moral loss have on combat performance. In SC WW1, accepting the cede territories to Italy seriously cripples Austria-Hungary combat ability but how much of an impact is has in this version of the game? How much of a national moral loss would it have to be to balance the decision. I'm thinking something between 5 and 10% but I'm possibly way off.

(in reply to OxfordGuy3)
Post #: 27
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 11/16/2017 7:43:34 PM   
BillRunacre

 

Posts: 2056
Joined: 7/22/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: KorutZelva

Offer protectorate to Denmark
Just the old event from previous SC instead of the current annexation one.


Hi KorutZelva

One big difference between the SC2 annexation of Denmark via DE 601 and the SC3 set-up where Denmark surrenders, is that with the former Danish partisans couldn't be represented because Denmark no longer existed in the game.

Whereas with the surrender of Denmark that is triggered by the Decision, Danish partisans can be represented late in the game as they did historically liberate Copenhagen, so if we were to change it back we would lose this possibility.

Is there perhaps a reason for wanting it to go back to being annexed that has an additional in-game benefit that I'm missing?

Thanks

Bill

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(in reply to KorutZelva)
Post #: 28
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 11/16/2017 9:00:10 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
Hi Bill,

Thanks for taking the time to peruse my musing. My irrational 'aversion' to the current event only stems that is a straight up conquest that is not different than conquering it manually other than paying a few bucks to trigger it. With the protectorate event you do get something not achievable than just moving troops in, giving the event more purpose than just being 'easy conquest' button. The only drawback of the old event was it was maybe slightly too cheap making it an 'offer you can't refuse' proposition because of the additional mpp of having denmark in Germany proper. It's not a bad thing per say that it prevent partisan as it serves as further distinction between accepting the event or not. It is just about factoring this additional benefit (and the free str 1 danish corp you get) in the new price for accepting.

(in reply to BillRunacre)
Post #: 29
RE: Nitpicky Korut reviews all Decisions - 1/11/2018 2:10:13 PM   
KorutZelva

 

Posts: 716
Joined: 2/4/2017
Status: online
UK-France attempt seizing Scandinavian mines

As a follow up to intervene in the winter war, the allies could choose between going through Petsamo insuring that they arrive on time or alternatively ask for transfer rights through norway and sweden. This one has a 20% chance of being successful (as norway and sweden both have to agree and are unlikely to do so) but if it works the allies can sneakily 'secure' swedish the ore fields stopping both the Norwegian and Swedish convoy to Germany on top of arriving in Finland in time. Success also pushes norway and sweden closer to the axis (a 50% jump?). Axis then as to consider, do they try to diplomatically get them over their side to be able to push the allies out of the mines or just invade them ASAP if they don't want to fight a diplowar over them. Success in intervening in them has the same effect on USSR mobilization reduction from thwarting their invasion. On the allied side the decision is if you're really interested in saving finland, you totally can but you can still try to get that homerun of blocking iron imports. I'd probably add a small USSR mobilization cost (2-3%) to a failed intervention.

< Message edited by KorutZelva -- 1/11/2018 6:16:41 PM >

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Post #: 30
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