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RE: lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel Mine" button

 
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RE: lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel... - 10/24/2017 2:16:34 AM   
Rusty1961

 

Posts: 503
Joined: 2/4/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

There is no reason to have a "Stockpile" button on ariel mines since only deploying them via the "mine" button on a City attack mission is the only way to deplete said mines. It is a flaw in the program.

No, it is not a flaw in the program. Those devices are just another device and the devices list handles them like any other, including a stockpile button. (And BTW players could choose to use it to keep themselves from making an error, say ordering a mine drop when they forget they are saving for a large op.) Instead it is the absence of an exception to normal handling of that device, the absence of special code for that device, the absence of a feature. It might be something you think should be there but fairness to the developers requires acknowledging it is not a bug.



Okay, poor programming instead of a bug. The only way said device gets "depleted' is by a conscious action, not like supplies which can inadvertently be sent off by the computer AI from Chungking to some base you didn't want supplies to go.

Having a secondary key-stroke is an unnecessary redundancy.

< Message edited by Rusty1961 -- 10/24/2017 2:17:59 AM >

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 31
RE: lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel... - 10/24/2017 4:57:04 AM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 5037
Joined: 9/28/2006
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Having the option of stockpiling aerial mines is not poor programming.  In order to not present that option to the player it would be necessary to remove the stockpile option from all other devices.

The logistic algorithms never, ever, inadvertently move supply.  The movement rules are well known and no competent player is taken by surprise as to their operation.  The competent player both incorporates those rules into their planning and utilises the tools provided by the devs to direct their operation to support their planning.

It is an insult to the devs to blame them for a player's own incompetence.  In any computer game there are definite limits faced by devs in how to foolproof the game from incompetence.  It does not present AE in a good light to prospective buyers, or new players who might feel overwhelmed by the scope of the game, to regularly claim there is a deficiency in the code when on every occasion such a claim has been made (and one needs to remember the complainer has been posting to the AE forum for more than 6 years), it has ultimately always been demonstrated that the code merely implemented the complainer's own decisions.

Alfred

(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 32
RE: lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel... - 10/24/2017 11:54:45 PM   
Rusty1961

 

Posts: 503
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Alfred,

Why would one need a stockpile button is the only way to deplete said devices is if I made a conscious decision to use them? I can understand having a stockpile button for supplies at an important base, but is there some other way than flying a aerial mining mission that I'm missing?

Curious about this.

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 33
RE: lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel... - 10/25/2017 12:17:46 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 22232
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Alfred,

Why would one need a stockpile button is the only way to deplete said devices is if I made a conscious decision to use them? I can understand having a stockpile button for supplies at an important base, but is there some other way than flying a aerial mining mission that I'm missing?

Curious about this.

You really aren't seeing the fact that there is no special stockpile button for mines. There is a stockpile button (sort of a button) for every device in the list, because the code treats all devices the same. You can plainly see that is a big list of all devices. Mines are just in there with the rest of them. There is not a deliberately placed stockpile button for mines. There is the absence of special treatment for mines; the absence of making a special list for mines; the absence of making a special window just for mines. It is not poor programming that volunteers who put in tons of hours doing amazing things did not make that particular extra thing.

If one doesn't need a stockpile button for mines, then one should not use it and mines won't be set to stockpile.

_____________________________


(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 34
RE: lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel... - 10/25/2017 3:13:31 AM   
Rusty1961

 

Posts: 503
Joined: 2/4/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Alfred,

Why would one need a stockpile button is the only way to deplete said devices is if I made a conscious decision to use them? I can understand having a stockpile button for supplies at an important base, but is there some other way than flying a aerial mining mission that I'm missing?

Curious about this.

You really aren't seeing the fact that there is no special stockpile button for mines. There is a stockpile button (sort of a button) for every device in the list, because the code treats all devices the same. You can plainly see that is a big list of all devices. Mines are just in there with the rest of them. There is not a deliberately placed stockpile button for mines. There is the absence of special treatment for mines; the absence of making a special list for mines; the absence of making a special window just for mines. It is not poor programming that volunteers who put in tons of hours doing amazing things did not make that particular extra thing.

If one doesn't need a stockpile button for mines, then one should not use it and mines won't be set to stockpile.



Don't be silly, I see it nice and clear...NOW.

You really don't get why this is confusing? I was able to have Subs conduct mine-laying missions and I never had to flip a switch to get the sub to preform the mission.

Not into the passive-aggressive language. Mine was a legitimate question so don't denegrate me.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 35
RE: lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel... - 10/25/2017 4:02:21 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 22232
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Alfred,

Why would one need a stockpile button is the only way to deplete said devices is if I made a conscious decision to use them? I can understand having a stockpile button for supplies at an important base, but is there some other way than flying a aerial mining mission that I'm missing?

Curious about this.

You really aren't seeing the fact that there is no special stockpile button for mines. There is a stockpile button (sort of a button) for every device in the list, because the code treats all devices the same. You can plainly see that is a big list of all devices. Mines are just in there with the rest of them. There is not a deliberately placed stockpile button for mines. There is the absence of special treatment for mines; the absence of making a special list for mines; the absence of making a special window just for mines. It is not poor programming that volunteers who put in tons of hours doing amazing things did not make that particular extra thing.

If one doesn't need a stockpile button for mines, then one should not use it and mines won't be set to stockpile.



Don't be silly, I see it nice and clear...NOW.

You really don't get why this is confusing? I was able to have Subs conduct mine-laying missions and I never had to flip a switch to get the sub to preform the mission.

Not into the passive-aggressive language. Mine was a legitimate question so don't denegrate me.

I am not denigrating you and nothing in my language was passive-aggressive.

_____________________________


(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 36
RE: lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel... - 10/25/2017 11:53:09 AM   
geofflambert


Posts: 12212
Joined: 12/23/2010
From: St. Louis
Status: offline
Hey, Ariel is mine. Keep your mitts off!




Attachment (1)

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 37
RE: lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel... - 10/25/2017 1:11:38 PM   
Bullwinkle58


Posts: 11075
Joined: 2/24/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

Don't be silly, I see it nice and clear...NOW.

You really don't get why this is confusing? I was able to have Subs conduct mine-laying missions and I never had to flip a switch to get the sub to preform the mission.

Not into the passive-aggressive language. Mine was a legitimate question so don't denegrate me.


You could have just stopped with your first sentence above. Everybody who plays this game has had head-slapping moments. Witpqs was just being clear and complete. There was no animus.

In the device screen, Mines are a separate category that can be sorted for so they are the only devices shown. It takes a bit of effort to go down every line and click Stockpile to Yes for each type of mine. You have to do that consciously. If you don't it's possible to load subs with their mines while also preventing aerial mines from being available.

But it's also possible to form a Sub Minelaying TF with their mines on stockpile. The code will let you. The TF will show 0 in the ammo line if you look, but you can form the TF. It won't lay anything.

There are some places in the code where I wish there were error traps. This isn't one of them for me, but maybe for you. The game does expect a pretty high level of player watchfulness on events that more modern games error trap. It's just one of those things.

_____________________________

The Moose

(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 38
RE: lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel... - 10/25/2017 1:59:29 PM   
Rusty1961

 

Posts: 503
Joined: 2/4/2010
Status: offline
"You really aren't seeing the facts". Stop it. It was insulting.

I'm done here. I made my point.

Good day.

(in reply to Bullwinkle58)
Post #: 39
RE: lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel... - 10/25/2017 3:48:14 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 22232
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

"You really aren't seeing the facts". Stop it. It was insulting.

I'm done here. I made my point.

Good day.

It was not insulting it was factual and intended to ask you to look at what I spelled out next. No insult was intended and any taken was on your end.

_____________________________


(in reply to Rusty1961)
Post #: 40
RE: lack of "Withdraw" button and "Ariel... - 10/26/2017 6:07:23 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 9369
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

"You really aren't seeing the facts". Stop it. It was insulting.

I'm done here. I made my point.

Good day.

It was not insulting it was factual and intended to ask you to look at what I spelled out next. No insult was intended and any taken was on your end.

It seems the OP has not got his head around the fact that there is more than one way to program a game function, and the fact that the designers did not choose the one he would have used does not make it invalid or "bad". For complex tasks like playing this game you have to subsume your intuition and just learn how to do it as designed.

_____________________________

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 41
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