Does Leningrad often fall?

[SpicyJuan]

It seems that in many wargames from Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa to TOAW's Directive 21, Leningrad falls very often during Barbarossa. Is this the case as well in War in the East?

[thedoctorking]

It's my sense from a few playings that if the Germans really want it, they can get it. The trade-off is less resources to devote to breaking through farther south. It is a long slog through all those swamps and forts. And by the time they get there, generally the big prize, the tank factories, have been evacuated to the east anyway. And then they have to put four units on garrison to prevent partisans from springing up all over.

[No idea]

ORIGINAL: SpicyJuan

It seems that in many wargames from Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa to TOAW's Directive 21, Leningrad falls very often during Barbarossa. Is this the case as well in War in the East?

It depends on the german AND the soviet player strategies. If the german player is really keen on taking it, and the soviet player doesnt reinforce Leningrad strongly, then most chances are Leningrad will fall. Of course, a strong german offensive against Leningrad will prevent a strong offensive against Moscow at the same time. While a strong Leningrad ddefence will prvent a strong Moscow defence. So, it is a "game" of taking bets on what will the german player, who is the one who has the inititive, will do. Moscow is a better prize on itself, but the good thing about taking Leningrad is that it gives you (german player) the finnish units for the coming winter.

[Stelteck]

Leningrad is currently very difficult to defend as soviet against good german offensive. You need to make Leningrad as top priority in the hand of an expert soviet player to have any hope of defending it in 1941.

And then he may still fall in 1942.

[boudi]

I loose Leningrad in 1941 because i put a NKVD units line in front off the Fins [:-], and unfortunatly the AI disbanded one of them [X(], and Fin rushed to the city... Leningrad lost in one turn... Good job...

[morvael]

You tried to screen LG really cheaply [:)]

[boudi]

Fin were behind the no attack line, the strategy was safe. NKVD units don't.

[morvael]

The problem with NKVD units is that they do disappear. In older versions they disappeared faster, so no one thought to use them as screen. Use forts or naval infantry brigades.

[STEF78]

As german, you need to take Leningrad in order to get the finns for the first blizzard. If you don't you're for a rough 1941 blizzard!

Except in one or two of my very early campaigns, I always took Leningrad.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: STEF78

As german, you need to take Leningrad in order to get the finns for the first blizzard. If you don't you're for a rough 1941 blizzard!

Except in one or two of my very early campaigns, I always took Leningrad.

Concur with Stef78 here. Leningrad falls pretty much all the time against a determined German. Not to mention that the game is heavily weighed in favor of the Germans in current patch. I feel like I'm throwing spitballs at tanks. Only to clog up the viewing port for a turn and they are back on the road. In consolation I will take 1500 dead for just damaging that one tank with a spit ball infested viewing port

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: morvael

Use forts or naval infantry brigades.

OMG, Naval Infantry Brigade are GREAT reserve units!!!! Regulating them to rear guard line duty sacrilege!!!! ;-P

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

It's my sense from a few playings that if the Germans really want it, they can get it. The trade-off is less resources to devote to breaking through farther south. It is a long slog through all those swamps and forts. And by the time they get there, generally the big prize, the tank factories, have been evacuated to the east anyway. And then they have to put four units on garrison to prevent partisans from springing up all over.

You can have pretty much all the factories moved turn 3 with a little left over for turn 4 if you really wanted too

[SpicyJuan]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: STEF78

As german, you need to take Leningrad in order to get the finns for the first blizzard. If you don't you're for a rough 1941 blizzard!

Except in one or two of my very early campaigns, I always took Leningrad.

Concur with Stef78 here. Leningrad falls pretty much all the time against a determined German. Not to mention that the game is heavily weighed in favor of the Germans in current patch. I feel like I'm throwing spitballs at tanks. Only to clog up the viewing port for a turn and they are back on the road. In consolation I will take 1500 dead for just damaging that one tank with a spit ball infested viewing port

Can Barbarossa succeed in this current patch?

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: SpicyJuan

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: STEF78

As german, you need to take Leningrad in order to get the finns for the first blizzard. If you don't you're for a rough 1941 blizzard!

Except in one or two of my very early campaigns, I always took Leningrad.

Concur with Stef78 here. Leningrad falls pretty much all the time against a determined German. Not to mention that the game is heavily weighed in favor of the Germans in current patch. I feel like I'm throwing spitballs at tanks. Only to clog up the viewing port for a turn and they are back on the road. In consolation I will take 1500 dead for just damaging that one tank with a spit ball infested viewing port

Can Barbarossa succeed in this current patch?

Things being equal on skill level I do believe the Germans have the edge in current patch. No if's and's or but's about it. Way too many benefits for the Germans in the patch imho. Number 1 = Sappers don't dig for soviets BUT engineers dig for Germans. That right there is BIAS!!!! Number 2 = Soviets take SUPER DUPER damage until the 1st of Sept 41. As Morvael said in so many words, "Survive to Sept" then the extra damage to Soviet units go away. You will watch as the Soviets lose 1,000's of men on an attack only to damage 1 tank. It really is hilarious (yes I'm exaggerating a bit but really you do next to no damage. Plus watch when the Germans attack they hardly take any damage and the German OOB rises very quickly). oh well, I think I'm done after these games until the pendulum at least swings back to neutral instead of VERY PRO German.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: SpicyJuan

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain




Concur with Stef78 here. Leningrad falls pretty much all the time against a determined German. Not to mention that the game is heavily weighed in favor of the Germans in current patch. I feel like I'm throwing spitballs at tanks. Only to clog up the viewing port for a turn and they are back on the road. In consolation I will take 1500 dead for just damaging that one tank with a spit ball infested viewing port

Can Barbarossa succeed in this current patch?

Things being equal on skill level I do believe the Germans have the edge in current patch. No if's and's or but's about it. Way too many benefits for the Germans in the patch imho. Number 1 = Sappers don't dig for soviets BUT engineers dig for Germans. That right there is BIAS!!!! Number 2 = Soviets take SUPER DUPER damage until the 1st of Sept 41. As Morvael said in so many words, "Survive to Sept" then the extra damage to Soviet units go away. You will watch as the Soviets lose 1,000's of men on an attack only to damage 1 tank. It really is hilarious (yes I'm exaggerating a bit but really you do next to no damage. Plus watch when the Germans attack they hardly take any damage and the German OOB rises very quickly). oh well, I think I'm done after these games until the pendulum at least swings back to neutral instead of VERY PRO German.

getting off the soap box.....

Bleh, let me answer your question, "YES" it can be won and has been done a great deal lately.

[SpicyJuan]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: SpicyJuan



Can Barbarossa succeed in this current patch?

Things being equal on skill level I do believe the Germans have the edge in current patch. No if's and's or but's about it. Way too many benefits for the Germans in the patch imho. Number 1 = Sappers don't dig for soviets BUT engineers dig for Germans. That right there is BIAS!!!! Number 2 = Soviets take SUPER DUPER damage until the 1st of Sept 41. As Morvael said in so many words, "Survive to Sept" then the extra damage to Soviet units go away. You will watch as the Soviets lose 1,000's of men on an attack only to damage 1 tank. It really is hilarious (yes I'm exaggerating a bit but really you do next to no damage. Plus watch when the Germans attack they hardly take any damage and the German OOB rises very quickly). oh well, I think I'm done after these games until the pendulum at least swings back to neutral instead of VERY PRO German.

getting off the soap box.....

Bleh, let me answer your question, "YES" it can be won and has been done a great deal lately.

Are you at all excited for TOAW IV and Nigel Askey's 2.5km/hex Barbarossa? Do you enjoy Decisive Campaigns: Barbarossa?

[Stelteck]

I really love Decisive Campaign: Barbarossa, but it is not the same type of game at all.

The tactical / division moving part are less interesting than WITE. It is less complete and with more abstraction. Also, the user interface is a little strange.
And the campaign finish early 1942.

But Decisive Campaign: Barbarossa is also an incredible and awesome "nazi administration management simulation" and a remarkable depiction of the german bureaucratic and logistical nightmare of the invasion. And for that it is really fun. (At least german side. Soviet side is less interesting).
It is also quite interesting in solo due to the game inside the game which is bureaucracy management. It have excellent immersion and role play.

It is a shame the developers cancelled future version of Decisive Campaign.

[SpicyJuan]

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

I really love Decisive Campaign: Barbarossa, but it is not the same type of game at all.

The tactical / division moving part are less interesting than WITE. It is less complete and with more abstraction. Also, the user interface is a little strange.
And the campaign finish early 1942.

But Decisive Campaign: Barbarossa is also an incredible and awesome "nazi administration management simulation" and a remarkable depiction of the german bureaucratic and logistical nightmare of the invasion. And for that it is really fun. (At least german side. Soviet side is less interesting).
It is also quite interesting in solo due to the game inside the game which is bureaucracy management. It have excellent immersion and role play.

It is a shame the developers cancelled future version of Decisive Campaign.

They cancelled it? Why would they do that if Barbarossa's been such a big success?

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: SpicyJuan

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain




Concur with Stef78 here. Leningrad falls pretty much all the time against a determined German. Not to mention that the game is heavily weighed in favor of the Germans in current patch. I feel like I'm throwing spitballs at tanks. Only to clog up the viewing port for a turn and they are back on the road. In consolation I will take 1500 dead for just damaging that one tank with a spit ball infested viewing port

Can Barbarossa succeed in this current patch?

Things being equal on skill level I do believe the Germans have the edge in current patch. No if's and's or but's about it. Way too many benefits for the Germans in the patch imho. Number 1 = Sappers don't dig for soviets BUT engineers dig for Germans. That right there is BIAS!!!! Number 2 = Soviets take SUPER DUPER damage until the 1st of Sept 41. As Morvael said in so many words, "Survive to Sept" then the extra damage to Soviet units go away. You will watch as the Soviets lose 1,000's of men on an attack only to damage 1 tank. It really is hilarious (yes I'm exaggerating a bit but really you do next to no damage. Plus watch when the Germans attack they hardly take any damage and the German OOB rises very quickly). oh well, I think I'm done after these games until the pendulum at least swings back to neutral instead of VERY PRO German.

One problem is not too many games go to completion to understand long term play effects of changes. I would have liked to see Sillyflowers game go longer as the Russians started to pounce with the latest patch .. albeit late to win the game from a playtesting standpoint invaluable ..
I propose to you that the German's need a pretty big edge early to have all phases of the game develop and a 1944 push to Berlin ..enough changes to favor Soviets and games will be decided in 1942 ..

[Stelteck]

ORIGINAL: SpicyJuan

They cancelled it? Why would they do that if Barbarossa's been such a big success?

It was not at all a commercial success.