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JFB in charge of the USN??? BtS Lite ver. 4.5 Kitakami (A) vs Falken (J)

 
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JFB in charge of the USN??? BtS Lite ver. 4.5 Kitakami ... - 10/7/2017 3:56:45 PM   
Kitakami


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From: the bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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Ok...

Now that BtS and BtS Lite are up to ver. 4.5 (thanks again to John and the whole mod group), my esteemed opponent Falken and I are going to play taking the side we are least comfortable with. That means I get to play the Allies, and Falken gets to play the Japanese. I get the joys of ordering the vast allied supply fleets, while he gets the joys of managing the Japanese war economy. We will be playing 2-day turns, which should slow the tempo of operations, and make game-time advance faster.

This is a general description of the situation:

quote:

The Washington Conference

Secretary of State Charles Evans Hughes blueprint for naval disarmament gets out and the Japanese stonewall a Naval Conference for a full year. After considerable bickering and pressure being brought to bear, the Conference does take place in 1922 and disarmament is agreed upon. However, there are additions allowed due to the added time to get the meeting going. The whole Mutsu debate is scrapped due to Mutsu actually being ready and deployed at that point. A slightly higher 10:10:7 ratio between Great Britain, the United States, and Japan is agreed upon. These are the outcomes:

1. The Ratio Changes to 10:10:7 (USN:RN:IJN).
a. The Japanese keep BB Tosa and BC Ishitaka. The USN gains a fourth Colorado-Class BB and BC Constellation. Great Britain gets the option to build a pair of Super-Hoods.
b. Tonnages are left open for the British to build two 35,000-ton battleships, the United States has 28,000 tons available, and the Japanese have 18,000 tons open for new Capital Ships. These warships are designed through the late-20s and are authorized for building at the time of the London Naval Conference. The US builds BC Chesapeake (4x3 12" guns), while the Japanese build BC Chichibu (2x2 16.1" guns).

2. The whole subject of CVs is reworked:
a. Two 'experimental' CVs (two Hosho's and two Langley's) are built. The US converts USS Langley and USS Ely to CVEs and they begin the war at the Panama Canal. Japan has IJN Hosho and Ibuki.
b. Two BC to CV conversions are still allowed. The Americans use all their Treaty tonnage to make Wasp a 4th Yorktown-class CV. The Japanese back off the failed Ryujo design and build IJN Ryukaku and Karasu while Soryu is built as a Hiryu-Class CV.

3. The Big 3 allow for more research into 'cruiser' submarines. The Americans build an additional Argonaut, Narwhal, and three Seaplane carrying subs. The Japanese add three mine layers and four large ocean-going Glen SS, and the French add another Surcouf.

The London Conference

The subject of cruisers is re-worked:

1. Japan sticks to its goal of 70% for CAs (instead of 60%) at all costs. Thus, Japan is authorized to build a total of 14 CAs.

2. Great Britain, who nearly scrapped the treaty due to the issue of CAs and CLs, stands firm over its argument and forces a larger tonnage for CLs. This brings no change to the Treaty since Japan was already at 70% in this category.

3. Both Japan and the United States were looking on hybrid cruiser—CVs and they force Great Britain, following the example set with the Washington BC—CV Conversions, to allow for two hybrids each to be built in the early-30s. The nations are allowed to place up to 8" guns on those vessels. The US builds CLV Charlotte and Jacksonville (3x3 6" and 18 Planes), GB builds CAV Melbourne and Wellington (2x2 8" and 15 Planes) sold/given to Australia and New Zealand, and Japan finishes up with CAV Kushiro and Tokachi (3x2 8" and 27 Planes). These hybrids are not true, useful CVLs nor are they true, useful cruisers but they have a unique niche in 1941 and all of them can be converted into carriers late in 1942.

To take maximum advantage of the revised Treaty tonnages, Japan converts several of the oldest CLs into fast MLs, builds additional Myoko-Class CAs and keeps the last four Mogami Class as 6” CLs.

Warship Construction after the Treaty Years

After abandoning the Treaty System, great discussion goes into the first new battleships to be built by Japan since the Nagato Class. The choices ends up centering on building two modern, fast, conventional battlewagons as opposed to the mighty Yamato-Class. The prohibitive factors of cost, additional shipyard construction and time finally swing the decision in favor of creating the Owari-Class (3x3 16.1" Guns). By building the Owari-Class BBs, the Japanese clear the slipways 12-18 months faster. The net result is that two modern 28-Kt. BBs join the Kaigun BEFORE Pearl Harbor, and their successors (two B-65 Class BCs) are either finished or near complete at war's start. Hoping to stay competitive vis-a-vis the Two Ocean Bill, two additional Owari-Class BBs are laid down just prior to the start of hostilities.

A new class of heavy cruiser is initiated. The proposed Tone-Class floatplane CA is discarded in favor of a balanced, more capable cruiser. The Niitaka-Class grows to over 15,000 tonnes and carries 4x3 8" guns. Six of there rugged cruisers are planned. The initial two are complete at war's start, a second pair coming in late-1942, and a final pair in 1944.

The Rise of Admiral Yamamoto

History takes another turn as Admiral Yamamoto Isoroku makes a greater contribution to the development of the Kaigun from 1936 to 1941. Yamamoto exerts a much greater influence first on the Japan Naval Aircraft Industry, then as Deputy Navy Minister, and finally as Navy Minister. Yamamoto chooses, at great risk to his life, to forego command of the Combined Fleet and dedicates himself to preparing Japan for the war he didn't want. He adds two new slipways (Shanghai and Port Arthur) for Fleet construction to facilitate a different, final pre-war expansion of the Kaigun. New and expanded Naval Yards, Heavy Industry, and Armaments are added at tremendous cost to the Japanese economy, as the Admiral attempts to prepare Japan for a possibly long war. In so doing, Yamamoto changes the 4th Circle Building Plan, dropping the 3rd and 4th Owari-Class Battleships for two improved Shokaku-Class CVs, a pair of Kawachi-Class fast BCs, an accelerated Light Cruiser deployment, and additional destroyers. Quick, reasonably cheap carrier conversions are moved forward seeing all of the pre-war CVs/CVLs deploy by December 7th or at slightly earlier dates in 1942. The highly unrealistic 5th Circle Plan is added in late-1941, and adds the 3rd and 4th Owari-Class BB back into building queue. Despite Yamamoto's objections, this allocation of resources goes ahead, with completion dates set in 1943-1944. Though only a few of these new ships are ready on December 7th, these additions make the Kaigun a force to be reckoned with well into 1944.

The Japan Naval Air Arm deploys the A6M2 with research complete for its successors of the M3 and M5. These airframes are nearly ready in December 1941, and the Japanese wisely look at advanced prototypes elsewhere, and decide to explore several second-generation fighter concepts. The Zero Team moves on to the Jack and Sam, while private contractors work on the George. Yamamoto fosters a sense of competition between the two teams to see who will win out as producing a worthy successor to the A6M2 line. Additional streamlining and encouragement brings forward second-generation aircraft of other fields: Dive-Bombing, Torpedo-Bombing, and the creation of a small heavy bomber line.

On the ground, Yamamoto reorganizes the SNLF units into a Brigade-Sized offensive force and, knowing it will be a war of attrition, converts many Naval Guard into enhanced units with Coastal Defense artillery (using guns taken from refitted warships). Additional small units are added to the IJN’s Troops and support units better reflecting Yamamoto's foresight into base building, defense, and expansion needs. While all these units are small and not in great number they promise to help the Japanese war effort.

Supply and fuel reserves start at a much reduced state. The Japanese MUST take the DEI as fast as possible!

Once war begins, BtS Lite postulates Yamamoto’s influence upon the wartime Kaigun. Four more improved Shokaku-Class CVs are ordered, and the conversion of several CLs into CVLs is added. First class destroyers are accelerated and emphasis is shifted to the AA Akizuki-Class at the expense of the more balanced Yugumos. Manpower is at a premium within the Fleet so Submarines, Escorts, and ASW forces all see a major retooling reflecting the Japanese quality over quantity belief. Yamamoto chooses the immediately useful projects, large APs converting to CVEs, better destroyers, fast transports and coastal defense forces.

On the Allied Side

Not all the changes benefit the Japanese. Between the Storms brings major additions and more choice for the Allied Player. The Allies see continued major changes in their starting locations, new air units, the addition of Training Squadrons on mainland USA to allow for an American pilot training program, enhanced aircraft production numbers, additional Allied FP groups, several ground units, additional New Zealand and Australian ships, a French Squadron at Tahiti, the CL Eendract for the DEI, a stronger Force Z, a CLAA conversion for the Omaha-class CLs, an additional pair of CVLs, and optional conversion of the Kittyhawk Class AKV and Tangier Class AV into CVEs. The added warships reflect a ‘stopgap’ counter to the increased Japanese strength found at war’s start.

Additionally, the Hepburn Board's recommendation to augmenting and expanding many Pacific Bases is heeded and work is sped up at Wake, Midway, the Aleutians, and in the South Pacific. While work has just begun in many ways, these advances pose a tougher problem for Japan if she moves east or southeast.

As war clouds gather on the horizon, the United States makes several important decisions:

1. To slightly reinforce the Asiatic Fleet with an additional CA and 4 modern DDs.

2. Admiral Hart also decides to follow his instincts and begins development of Cebu as an alternate anchorage.

3. The Scouting Force, commanded by Vc-Adm Wilson, is sent south to protect the ships helping to develop Pago Pago into a forward operating base. This powerful Task Force serves to aid the convoy going to the Philippines (the Pensacola TF) and the empty TF returning from the Philippines (the Chester TF). In a major development, Winston Churchill decides, at the last minute, to add HMS Renown to Force Z to better demonstrate British 'resolve' reflecting the seriousness of Japan's overt aggression. Repairs on HMS Indomitable are rushed, and this valuable carrier is just days away from assisting Force Z by providing invaluable air cover. Is it too little, too late?

In addition to its own special modifications, Between the Storms has been made fully compatible with DaBabes and thus has more ship classes than stock, and many more of the smaller vessels comprising these classes for both sides: yard oilers, coastal minesweepers, auxiliary subchasers, patrol boats, minefield tenders, and many others designed to give a more robust and realistic feel to the development, population, capabilities, and logistical support of bases and rear and operational areas. Database elements have been modified to provide more realistic results for AAA (flak) combat, ASW combat, and certain minor, but nevertheless fun, aspects of naval combat, like land bombardment and coastal defense fire and new modifications to ATA combat. The modifications include lining-up and unifying data elements within certain fields, so that things interface more smoothly, as well as substantial changes to the data elements themselves.

Garrison requirements have been raised in China as well as India to, hopefully, better reflect the political environment of the regions.


All in all, after taking a good look at both sides, the mod feels balanced. The Japanese have more naval surface and air units at start but less resources and supplies in storage. This means they must conquer the DEI and other resource-producing areas, or the economy will crash. The Allies also get more toys, although they face stronger forces at the start of the war. Perhaps it will take them a bit longer, but I feel that once IJN pilot quality begins to erode, the Allies have a good chance to take Japan down.

Now, even though it is a new scenario, since I have never played the Allies against a human opponent, could the AFBs please give me a few pointers? In exchange I will attempt to write a very, very basic AAR, more like my thoughts on how the war is progressing and questions when I feel lost. Please don't hold me to the standard of the great AARs here.

I will post our house rules later on.

< Message edited by Kitakami -- 10/11/2017 4:16:52 PM >


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Tenno Heika Banzai!
Post #: 1
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/7/2017 4:23:39 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 907
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: the bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline
Settings:

- FOW: ON
- Advanced Weather: ON
- Allied Damage Control: ON
- PDU: ON
- Historical First Turn: OFF
- Dec 7th Surprise: ON
- Reliable Torpedoes: OFF
- Realistic R&D: ON
- No Withdrawals: OFF
- Reinforcements: FIXED
- Turn Cycle: 2

House Rules:

- No USAAF bombers attacking on low naval. USN bombers are free to do as they wish.
- No Allied strategic bombing of originally Allied bases (DEI, Burma, China, Malaya). Manchukuo, Korea, and the Home Islands are fair game.
- No new Allied TF on turn 1.
- No Allied air transfers on turn 1.
- No crossing of national boundaries by restricted units without paying HQ change. EXCEPTIONS:
--- Manchukuo – Korea.
--- India – Akyab.
- Fighters can sweep and/or fly CAP/LRCAP at best and second best manouver altitude bands only.
- No A7M2/3 or B7A2/3 can operate from IJN CVEs. No large fighters can operate from USN CVEs.




_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to Kitakami)
Post #: 2
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/7/2017 5:03:51 PM   
PaxMondo


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Welcome back. Nice to see you in an AAR again.



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Pax

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RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/7/2017 5:44:11 PM   
traskott

 

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From: Valladolid, Spain
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Bla,bla,bla, Where is the fight!!!??? When Will this begin!? John has added a lot of toys,

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RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/7/2017 8:29:02 PM   
Kitakami


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From: the bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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@ PaxMondo, thanks! It is good to be back :)

@ traskott, I think it will be 1-2 weeks before turn 1 is run. Falken is new to the Japanese side, so I will in no way hurry him. I do expect to lose 2x BBs in Pearl, at least 1x BC in Malaya, and a few (2-5?) SSs in Manila. We will see.

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Tenno Heika Banzai!

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RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/7/2017 8:56:51 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 15127
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
I REALLY am looking forward to this and any other AARs that start. I have a match planned but am not starting it prior ending my game with Dan.


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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

(in reply to Kitakami)
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RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/7/2017 11:17:33 PM   
Bif1961


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From: Phenix City, Alabama
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Looking forward to seeing how this new mod works out especially with players that are playing their least favorite side.

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RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 4:01:30 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 15127
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From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
There are sooooooooooo many new toys for BOTH sides. Should be a literal blast.


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Member: Treaty, Reluctant Admiral and Between the Storms Mod Team.

Reluctant Admiral Mod:
https://sites.google.com/site/reluctantadmiral/

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RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 8:58:06 AM   
hartwig.modrow

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami


House Rules:


- Fighters can sweep and/or fly CAP/LRCAP at best and second best manouver altitude bands only.




The limitation to sweep and CAP/LRCAP means "pseudo sweeps", preferably against CVTFs (like 300 Frank-r "escorting" a 10 bomber naval strike at very high altitude) are legitimate. This tactic is reported to be quite effective wearing down deathstar CAP.

Is this intentional ?

Thanks for the clarification.

Hartwig

(edited for spelling)

< Message edited by hartwig.modrow -- 10/8/2017 8:59:20 AM >

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RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 10:53:27 AM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9110
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online
I've just had two good days vs Gen Patton as a Japanese admiral in SoPac, but I can switch back to being an Allied player for your AAR.

A-24 Banshee and the old, but nasty Vindicators are great to hit transports from size 2 AFs.

When the Philippines are closing down, those two PBY groups go to India. You don't have enough Brit/Indian NavS up there.

Pacific L & Dominion M Class xAKs start mainly around India and other Commonwealth countries. I convert them all to xAPs when able on 2/42 at Cape Town. They go to USA and are my main troops haulers in 42.

India - one, but likely two American divisions go to Eastern USA and will end up in India. Add in 2 to 4 SBD groups as you will need those DBs if your opponent goes for India. EAB engineers go to India and the SeaBees stay in Pacific for me. Not enough construction assets in India. Eventual, two Marine CD units go there. Need their guns when you drive Japan back on the coast with their guns (Symon reported they have the best guns for Allies). The big AA Bde that comes into Ceylon is moved to Ledo to protect your C-47s flying supplies into western China. From day one, focus on fort building except at Delhi (AF7 is your goal). When playing Allies, I always assume India WILL BE invaded. I send the at start B-17Ds to India (from Ledo they can reach Sian).

American DD in SRA - You will need to decide what to do with these old DDs. I like some as APD and a few as DEs.

Fast Transport TFs - The Allies can make one or two TFs using the converts DDs to APDs and gather up your AMCs.

Supplies/Fuel - MOVE IT out from USA!! You can set up CS Convoys of the Transmarine Class xAKs from San Fran to Pearl over the first 6 month with variable routes. I eventually have 3 TFs. From Eastern USA to Cape Town with some xAKs at Full Speed (you can do this for just off map movement). If not, you can run low on supplies in Burma/India in 43/44.

Canadian KVs are your best ocean going escorts for 42 until some of the higher endurance SC come out from USA in fall for your transports.

P-38s - train them up!! Use them almost exclusively as sweepers. The IJA fighters were almost wiped out by me vs John 3rd in our prior contest in 42. Yes, even the Tojos were no match! Get the old airframes into those air groups on West Coast to get them out. You get 75 PP/day now, buy some more.

4 or 5 Plane HQ groups - I train the bombers in ASW to be used before they are withdrawn in mid-42.

American 18 plane FP groups - Most can upgrade from FPs to SBD. However, some can upgrade to Avengers. Find them and do so. By late 42 you should easily have extra Avengers.

BattleCruisers - Both the American and the French have poor experience. Double check leaders and find missions to increase them before trying go toe-to-toe with Japans BB/BCs.

EDIT: Almost forgot about those American APs. Over a dozen of them become APAs in 3/43. I gather mine at Mare Island and they stay there until converted. You are very short of assault shipping in 43, so using them and getting them sunk in 42 will not help your war efforts.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 10/8/2017 11:00:03 AM >

(in reply to hartwig.modrow)
Post #: 10
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 1:16:56 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 907
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: the bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hartwig.modrow
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami
House Rules:

- Fighters can sweep and/or fly CAP/LRCAP at best and second best manouver altitude bands only.

The limitation to sweep and CAP/LRCAP means "pseudo sweeps", preferably against CVTFs (like 300 Frank-r "escorting" a 10 bomber naval strike at very high altitude) are legitimate. This tactic is reported to be quite effective wearing down deathstar CAP.

Is this intentional ?

Thanks for the clarification.

Hartwig

(edited for spelling)

No, it is not intentional. I guess neither Falken nor I had considered to do such a thing. I, for one, will not, and I don't think he would either. By the intent of our house rule, the Frank-r would be limited to 20K feet on a sweeping role. Still, I guess we will have to see when we get to that point of the game.

_____________________________

Tenno Heika Banzai!

(in reply to hartwig.modrow)
Post #: 11
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 1:33:33 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 907
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: the bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
Status: offline
I've just had two good days vs Gen Patton as a Japanese admiral in SoPac, but I can switch back to being an Allied player for your AAR.

*** Domou arigatou gozaimashita, ny59giants-san!

A-24 Banshee and the old, but nasty Vindicators are great to hit transports from size 2 AFs.

*** The vindicators I had not considered. Thank you for the tip :)

When the Philippines are closing down, those two PBY groups go to India. You don't have enough Brit/Indian NavS up there.

*** Good point.

Pacific L & Dominion M Class xAKs start mainly around India and other Commonwealth countries. I convert them all to xAPs when able on 2/42 at Cape Town. They go to USA and are my main troops haulers in 42.

*** Another very good point. Had not considered this.

India - one, but likely two American divisions go to Eastern USA and will end up in India. Add in 2 to 4 SBD groups as you will need those DBs if your opponent goes for India. EAB engineers go to India and the SeaBees stay in Pacific for me. Not enough construction assets in India. Eventual, two Marine CD units go there. Need their guns when you drive Japan back on the coast with their guns (Symon reported they have the best guns for Allies). The big AA Bde that comes into Ceylon is moved to Ledo to protect your C-47s flying supplies into western China. From day one, focus on fort building except at Delhi (AF7 is your goal). When playing Allies, I always assume India WILL BE invaded. I send the at start B-17Ds to India (from Ledo they can reach Sian).

*** A rather complete plan for India, with many points I had not thought of. Thanks tons!

American DD in SRA - You will need to decide what to do with these old DDs. I like some as APD and a few as DEs.

*** Are DEs necessary? I had considered converting all to APDs, but I will listen to reason.

Fast Transport TFs - The Allies can make one or two TFs using the converts DDs to APDs and gather up your AMCs.

*** I had not thought of the pairing. Many thanks!

Supplies/Fuel - MOVE IT out from USA!! You can set up CS Convoys of the Transmarine Class xAKs from San Fran to Pearl over the first 6 month with variable routes. I eventually have 3 TFs. From Eastern USA to Cape Town with some xAKs at Full Speed (you can do this for just off map movement). If not, you can run low on supplies in Burma/India in 43/44.

*** I have never setup a CS convoy in all my years of playing AE. Don't trust myself not to forget about them, sadly. But yes, a number of TFs from the East Coast to Capetown carrying supplies and fuel (if some of the slow TKs from the DEI can be saved) I consider a must. As for the West Coast to the Pacific runs, I think I will do them one by one, as needs are bound to change all the time.

Canadian KVs are your best ocean going escorts for 42 until some of the higher endurance SC come out from USA in fall for your transports.

*** Yes, they are good. I had eartagged them as TK escorts.

P-38s - train them up!! Use them almost exclusively as sweepers. The IJA fighters were almost wiped out by me vs John 3rd in our prior contest in 42. Yes, even the Tojos were no match! Get the old airframes into those air groups on West Coast to get them out. You get 75 PP/day now, buy some more.

*** With our house rule regarding sweeps, the P-38E is "limited" to 30K feet. That makes for one hell of a high-altitude sweeper, even in the early stages of the war.

4 or 5 Plane HQ groups - I train the bombers in ASW to be used before they are withdrawn in mid-42.

*** Hmm... I had considered disbanding them early, so as not to have to bother with them, but you do have a point here.

American 18 plane FP groups - Most can upgrade from FPs to SBD. However, some can upgrade to Avengers. Find them and do so. By late 42 you should easily have extra Avengers.

*** Hidden gems? Cool.

BattleCruisers - Both the American and the French have poor experience. Double check leaders and find missions to increase them before trying go toe-to-toe with Japans BB/BCs.

*** Will do. They will do a few shakedown cruises before toeing the line, then. They seem to be good raiders. Wee will see.

EDIT: Almost forgot about those American APs. Over a dozen of them become APAs in 3/43. I gather mine at Mare Island and they stay there until converted. You are very short of assault shipping in 43, so using them and getting them sunk in 42 will not help your war efforts.


*** This is something I had not considered either, and you are totally right. Will keep them safe until conversion. There are enough non-assault ships to take up the slack.

THANK YOU VERY MUCH for the pointers!!! :D


< Message edited by Kitakami -- 10/8/2017 1:36:09 PM >


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Tenno Heika Banzai!

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Post #: 12
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 1:56:20 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9110
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online
Old DD to DE or APD conversions - I usually go all in on APDs, but some players like some DEs. Personal choice.

Don't forget Japan now has those super high Endurance subs that will be parked off the USA. Early war ASW assets like the little bomber HQ groups are a must.

PBY placement - Midway, Pearl, Johnson Island, Canton, Palmrya, Pago Pago, Suva, Noumea, Sydney.
AVD - pair them up to give you 12 Aviation Support. Move them from Pearl to lower Solomons and other places like Ellice Island to extend your NavS.

(in reply to Kitakami)
Post #: 13
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 2:01:40 PM   
Kitakami


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From: the bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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Old DD to DE or APD conversions - I usually go all in on APDs, but some players like some DEs. Personal choice.

*** Waiting until 4/42 to convert them to DEs seems a waste of hulls to me, but to each his/her own.

Don't forget Japan now has those super high Endurance subs that will be parked off the USA. Early war ASW assets like the little bomber HQ groups are a must.

*** Great point. Will use them in that role.

PBY placement - Midway, Pearl, Johnson Island, Canton, Palmrya, Pago Pago, Suva, Noumea, Sydney.

*** The advanced early warning chain, yes. The one reason I do not like to use Catalinas for torpedo attacks... never enough of them!

AVD - pair them up to give you 12 Aviation Support. Move them from Pearl to lower Solomons and other places like Ellice Island to extend your NavS.

*** Another great point. I guess the Allies do have the tools to get the job done, but I don't have the experience to use them. I will learn a lot in this game.

THANKS AGAIN!


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Tenno Heika Banzai!

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Post #: 14
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 2:09:53 PM   
ny59giants


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Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: online
American CVs - Surviveability is the name for 42. I think John has changed it so you can re-size their fighter groups. What I do is put on a 18 plane Marine fighter group along with 27 plane USN group on them to give me 45 fighters. Then, I place two CVs in TF with 2 to 4 CAs and 8 DDs. After some more training, one of these TFs 'should' be able to stand up to a part of KB (2 CV and 1 CVL) and survive. Japan has three of those TF at start. Beware!!

(in reply to Kitakami)
Post #: 15
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 2:17:52 PM   
Kitakami


Posts: 907
Joined: 5/3/2002
From: the bridge of the DNTK Kitakami
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
American CVs - Surviveability is the name for 42. I think John has changed it so you can re-size their fighter groups. What I do is put on a 18 plane Marine fighter group along with 27 plane USN group on them to give me 45 fighters. Then, I place two CVs in TF with 2 to 4 CAs and 8 DDs. After some more training, one of these TFs 'should' be able to stand up to a part of KB (2 CV and 1 CVL) and survive. Japan has three of those TF at start. Beware!!


Yes, USN air units can be resized. I was thinking about loading CVs thus:

36x Fighters.
27x Dive Bombers.
27x Dive Bombers.
(torpedo bomber unit downloaded and training until better planes are available).

Still, taking your thoughts into account, I could go:

27x Fighters (USN).
18x Fighters (USMC).
27x Dive Bombers.
18x Dive Bombers.

Japanese flat tops are a potent offensive force. I need to attrite their plane crews carefully. I will not put my own carriers at risk without dire need.


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Post #: 16
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 3:02:50 PM   
ny59giants


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Don't forget you get some CV capable recon units. You can divide them into 3 plane groups, I think.

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Post #: 17
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 3:13:09 PM   
Kitakami


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Don't forget you get some CV capable recon units. You can divide them into 3 plane groups, I think.


This is totally new to me. I thought only the IJN had those. Can you point me them, please?

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Post #: 18
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 3:33:44 PM   
ny59giants


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CV recon: F2A-2P and 3P models come out in early 42. Then, the F4F-7 comes out in late 42. Air groups VMD-1 & 2 arrive around Apr 42. VSX-1 & 2 in Dec 42 and Jan 43.

Another goodie in mid-Dec 42...The Americans get an Armored Div that normal is withdrawn. It's NOT!!! However, you will need to stockpile 6 months worth of Sherman's to fill out the TO&E.

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Post #: 19
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 3:41:26 PM   
Kitakami


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CV recon: F2A-2P and 3P models come out in early 42. Then, the F4F-7 comes out in late 42. Air groups VMD-1 & 2 arrive around Apr 42. VSX-1 & 2 in Dec 42 and Jan 43.

*** I feel like such a noob... but THANKS! I will make sure to split those units and load a fragment on each flat top. It should help tons.

Another goodie in mid-Dec 42...The Americans get an Armored Div that normal is withdrawn. It's NOT!!! However, you will need to stockpile 6 months worth of Sherman's to fill out the TO&E.

*** 13th Arm Div? At least it can be transferred to a non-restricted command for cheap, even if it takes some time to get up to the TOE. 153 medium tanks plus 68 light tanks and 52 armored cars is nothing to sneeze at!


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Post #: 20
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/8/2017 10:47:43 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

CV recon: F2A-2P and 3P models come out in early 42. Then, the F4F-7 comes out in late 42. Air groups VMD-1 & 2 arrive around Apr 42. VSX-1 & 2 in Dec 42 and Jan 43.

Another goodie in mid-Dec 42...The Americans get an Armored Div that normal is withdrawn. It's NOT!!! However, you will need to stockpile 6 months worth of Sherman's to fill out the TO&E.


These were Michael's ideas from earlier versions and I think they add a nice touch.

Is your fiendish opponent working on Turn ONE? Is he going to have an AAR?


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Post #: 21
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/9/2017 12:17:42 AM   
DOCUP


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Good advise by NYgiants. Following

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Post #: 22
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/9/2017 1:12:29 AM   
Kitakami


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
<snip>
Is your fiendish opponent working on Turn ONE? Is he going to have an AAR?


Yes he is, and no, he probably won't. But perhaps you could convince him :)


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Post #: 23
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/9/2017 12:23:04 PM   
ny59giants


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Saving Fuel: The Allies have plenty of it in the USA. When moving your many TFs from USA to SoPac and Australia. There is a method to ensure you allow for stockpiles to grow. I tend to use Christmas island and Vava'u (largest port potential in this area) as my way points and potential refueling points. Set your TFs to "Do Not Refuel." Once they unload and are coming back to USA, DO NOT go for "Full Refuel" at that base to soak up fuel from there. Rather, get the TF back to one of these two waypoints to take on fuel. Once you get to those bases, set destination and home port as San Fran. Switch to "Minimal Refuel" and refuel from port. Hopefully you will refuel just enough so when your TF gets back to San Fran, your TF is in the red. You don't want to come back to USA with lots and lots of fuel in your bunkers.

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Post #: 24
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/9/2017 12:53:27 PM   
Kitakami


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Saving Fuel: The Allies have plenty of it in the USA. When moving your many TFs from USA to SoPac and Australia. There is a method to ensure you allow for stockpiles to grow. I tend to use Christmas island and Vava'u (largest port potential in this area) as my way points and potential refueling points. Set your TFs to "Do Not Refuel." Once they unload and are coming back to USA, DO NOT go for "Full Refuel" at that base to soak up fuel from there. Rather, get the TF back to one of these two waypoints to take on fuel. Once you get to those bases, set destination and home port as San Fran. Switch to "Minimal Refuel" and refuel from port. Hopefully you will refuel just enough so when your TF gets back to San Fran, your TF is in the red. You don't want to come back to USA with lots and lots of fuel in your bunkers.


Thanks, and a question... what should the fuel levels be at those refueling stations?


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Post #: 25
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/9/2017 2:03:57 PM   
ny59giants


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Christmas Island - 50 to 100k
Vava'u - 100 to 200k (this will continue to go up as you expand the port size)

Dutch TK/AOs. - Don't get them sunk! I run then to/from Soerabaja to Broome/Port Hedland as much as possible. Some of the small Ducth xAK/xAKLs are useful to get in/out of small ports later on.

Aussie based xAK/xAKLs - some convert to xAPs which come in handy.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 10/9/2017 2:04:19 PM >

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Post #: 26
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/9/2017 2:08:29 PM   
Lecivius


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Agreed. Even the little AO's are very useful late in the war. I also like to pull the Cavite support group, and set it somewhere safe and useful. You just don't get a lot of navy support in this game ( I never have enough, ever ). I'm watching this with vast interest.

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Post #: 27
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/9/2017 2:24:43 PM   
Kitakami


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@ ny59giants, thank you for your abundant advice!

@ Lecivius, I will take a look at the Cavite support group. I am still in the process of getting to know what I have where. Thanks!

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Post #: 28
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/9/2017 2:55:58 PM   
ny59giants


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Malaya - When the "thundering herd" leaves, I load up an Air HQ (you have two on the peninsula). Every Japanese players hates those damn Vildebeest and Swordfish. Placing it at Palembang or another size 2 AF can be nasty surprise.

Sumatra - You may need some Aviation Support here if you plan to get those short legged fighters in Malaya up to Burma/India. Port Blair is important to hold it you do.

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Post #: 29
RE: JFB in charge of the USN??? - 10/9/2017 7:51:11 PM   
Kitakami


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
Malaya - When the "thundering herd" leaves, I load up an Air HQ (you have two on the peninsula). Every Japanese players hates those damn Vildebeest and Swordfish. Placing it at Palembang or another size 2 AF can be nasty surprise.

Sumatra - You may need some Aviation Support here if you plan to get those short legged fighters in Malaya up to Burma/India. Port Blair is important to hold it you do.


Following your train of thought:

1. Is it worth it to land a British division in Sumatra?
2. Is it worth it to land a brigade in Port Blair?

These are thoughts that have come up, but I don't have the experience to say yes or no...

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Post #: 30
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