NOOBS LEARNING TOGETHER (SparkleyTits Axis vs Psych0 Soviets)

[Psych0]

OK, SparkleyTits and myself started a game that puts us both in a totally uncomfortable position. He will be playing Blacks for the very first time not against the AI and myself playing the Reds in any capacity. I have not even played them against AI yet, although I did dip my toe in with the MP 2by3+ game as the Southern Sector commander (first 3 turns experience only now).

Our thinking is to help eachother and why not make our learning journey available for all. And give everyone else an opportunity to comment as well...

Game settings:
+1 attack
Random weather
Mild winter
Full FoW
Better CV

[Psych0]

Screenies of the situation after SparkleyTits' opening blitz...

[Psych0]

No pocket in the Centre...

[Psych0]

Loose Lvov pocket but Rumania will activate T2...

[Psych0]

Air losses fairly low. SparkleyTits has some thoughts as to why but I'll leave that for him to bring up.

[SparkleyTits]

Yeah I tried practicing transfers of planes in hopes of saving fuel which I have never done before but it seems that left all of my planes with very little cumilative fuel and meant I also quickly stopped getting ground support too

I won't be able to properly rectify that problem until turn 3 now but that was the point of this game to experiment and learn Axis as the same as Psych0 the only time I have played them is the 3 turns in our 8 player game

In the centre I miscalculated my MP cost of the 18th panzer so had to leave the pocket with a 1 hex hole unfortunately

Sub optimal plays galore!

[STEF78]

If you're both beginners, the russian has a significant advantage as german army requires far more skill in the early turns.

Try to keep your momentum, focuse on encirclement and destroy heavy industry as much as possible.

HQBU will help you.

[Psych0]

First NOOB question; how do I flip units back to 'unrouted'? Or does that happens automatically if you put them on refit?

Routed units is not something I had to deal with as the Axis yet, LOL

[Psych0]

ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits

Yeah I tried practicing transfers of planes in hopes of saving fuel which I have never done before but it seems that left all of my planes with very little cumilative fuel and meant I also quickly stopped getting ground support too

I usually get to low-5000s destroyed Red AF planes, but I don't use transfers in that. The 3 Stuka airbases do the most damage by far, so I do move those around a bit to come into range of the target air fields. I find the Stukas can fly about 4-5 sorties each, enough to empty all 11 closest targets (6 in the north, 5 in the south). Then the level bombers (Ju88, He111) with Bf110 cover where possible for targets further away. Pretty standard I guess. No idea how people get to 6000+ kills.

[STEF78]

ORIGINAL: Psych0

First NOOB question; how do I flip units back to 'unrouted'? Or does that happens automatically if you put them on refit?

Routed units is not something I had to deal with as the Axis yet, LOL

It dépends on the morale level of their HQ. he higher the morale of the general, the best chance to turn back to ready.

It's why some russian players set Zhukov at Stavka as the checks are done successively to Army, Front and then Stavka.

Personnaly I prefer to use Zhukov as army leader

[Psych0]

First thing I checked when I got the turn was where is the Axis converting rail:
- North 5 hexes from Taurage-Raseiniai
- Centre 2 hexes through Brest-Litovsk
- South 2 hexes through Ivanichi

Not my cup of tea that, way too slow through BL and Ivanichi. But very important to know for the Reds.

Next, I disbanded most forts within 15 hexes from Axis units. Saves quite a bit of manpower and equipment and I don't think they can even be considered speedbumps. They cost 1AP each to disband though to save 1500-2000 men per fort or about 250 squads, mostly 7.62mm MG, 45mm AT and 76mm field guns. Worth it I think at least.

Then it's time to save as many units as possible while using pocketed units to be in the way as much as possible...

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: STEF78

ORIGINAL: Psych0

First NOOB question; how do I flip units back to 'unrouted'? Or does that happens automatically if you put them on refit?

Routed units is not something I had to deal with as the Axis yet, LOL

It dépends on the morale level of their HQ. he higher the morale of the general, the best chance to turn back to ready.

It's why some russian players set Zhukov at Stavka as the checks are done successively to Army, Front and then Stavka.

Personnaly I prefer to use Zhukov as army leader

Keep the routed units as close to their HQ as they can get, I think 2-3 hexes gives the maximum chance to rally.

[Psych0]

OK, so it's something that happens automatically before your turn. Not something to actively have to do. Thanks for clarifying.

[Psych0]

My first ever Soviet T1 done. What a marathon session last night it was!! Nothing was familiar and I felt I had to figure everything out for the first time. Exciting but daunting. Is T1 supposed to take 6+ hours?

Will I have enough rail cap? Seems I did, just. All available units from deep in Russia railed to / towards the front or to positions to start preparing defensive lines.

What the heck do I do with the Red AF? For now I just gathered them together in concentrated spots on rail lines in forests/swamps near Leningrad, Moscow and Kiev. And deployed most of the air groups from the reserve, mostly to the north.

Where do I defend in the south? I felt I had enough units to make use of the line of level 2 forts from Shepetovka area to the SW and S. Plenty of defense in depth too. Too far forward?

What to do with the pockets or units about to be pocketed without hope of escape? Lvov pocket was reopened and combined with my stand around Shepetovka-Proskurov. Some are at least an annoyance to the Krauts and it'll cost him a lot of MP to reseal the pocket. Even more to enlarge that pocket, something I'm judging I prevented sufficiently.

Then the Bialystock pocket-to-be I just made as spread out as possible hugging the Germans. The Courland pocket escaped mostly to Leningrad while the rest moved into the way of the German advance. The only 2 pockets I didn't manage to open are around Kaunas and Kovel.

Pskov and south along Sinyaya strongly defended (plus some leader changes too boost CV) so that the Germans are very unlikely to breach there this turn and maybe even next. Screen of retreating troops on the approaches to the land bridge while that's being occupied with fresh units. In Pripyat a bunch of units should be able to rail out next turn and a few did this turn.

SparkleyTits, can you post some screenies? I forgot to take them in the early morning before hitting 'end turn'

[SparkleyTits]

Will do fella hopefully I will get onto the turn tommorow then I'll do my AAR turn

[Psych0]

Oh and what cost me a lot of time was to put TOE of all to be pocketed units to minimal (20%) so they don't get reinforcements just before they're isolated.

Is there any reason not to put TOE of all others to 100%?

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: Psych0

My first ever Soviet T1 done. What a marathon session last night it was!! Nothing was familiar and I felt I had to figure everything out for the first time. Exciting but daunting. Is T1 supposed to take 6+ hours?

My Soviet turns take everything between 4 and 24 hours... no matter what turn it is

ORIGINAL: Psych0
Will I have enough rail cap? Seems I did, just. All available units from deep in Russia railed to / towards the front or to positions to start preparing defensive lines.

Before factory evacuations start rail cap isn't likely a problem, but it will become really hard balancing act against a good opponent, especially during the late summer '41. If you're planning big walls of steel on the land bridge or Leningrad approaches, you might be hitting the cap though, there's some heavy lifting to get those big motorized monsters to the north.

Try to schedule your evacuations and update the schedule according your opponents movements. Get all critical rail movements done before factory evacuation.

ORIGINAL: Psych0
What the heck do I do with the Red AF? For now I just gathered them together in concentrated spots on rail lines in forests/swamps near Leningrad, Moscow and Kiev. And deployed most of the air groups from the reserve, mostly to the north.

Most of the RAF (haha) should be probably sent to reserve right away to raise the morale, and keep the reserve rotation going to get constant morale boosts to the weaker air groups. There was a hint recently to keep the airbases stacked as threes to prevent bombing opportunities, that's a good practice. Keep them out of the swamps, you can fly missions only from clear, light woods and city/town hexes (iirc urban prevents missions also?). Concentrating the air forces may be a good idea at the start, just as you have done.

Where do I defend in the south? I felt I had enough units to make use of the line of level 2 forts from Shepetovka area to the SW and S. Plenty of defense in depth too. Too far forward?

I'd say Shepetovka is definitely too forward at least against a decent opponent. The panzers have sooo much fuel at the start.

What to do with the pockets or units about to be pocketed without hope of escape? Lvov pocket was reopened and combined with my stand around Shepetovka-Proskurov. Some are at least an annoyance to the Krauts and it'll cost him a lot of MP to reseal the pocket. Even more to enlarge that pocket, something I'm judging I prevented sufficiently.

Then the Bialystock pocket-to-be I just made as spread out as possible hugging the Germans. The Courland pocket escaped mostly to Leningrad while the rest moved into the way of the German advance. The only 2 pockets I didn't manage to open are around Kaunas and Kovel.

Get the strongest units to air supply! That's a major annoyance, and who cares if some SB-2s drop in the process! Make the units in the pocket as annoying to remove as possible, use all the rough hexes and fortifications to your advangtage. Try to block rail building and if the opportunity arises, strangle the PzCorps supply lines. Basically just try to buy time. In summer '41 trying to save pockets is a lost cause in most cases. If you can open it without serious commitment, it's probably worth it though. Keeping the pocket area as big as possible is a good thing especially if you're air supplying the units.

Pskov and south along Sinyaya strongly defended (plus some leader changes too boost CV) so that the Germans are very unlikely to breach there this turn and maybe even next. Screen of retreating troops on the approaches to the land bridge while that's being occupied with fresh units. In Pripyat a bunch of units should be able to rail out next turn and a few did this turn.

Since Daugava hasn't been crossed yet, making the German pay some extra for the crossing might be a good idea if you can spare useless units to ZOC the obvious crossing. Major rivers are a major annoyance for the German motorized units

ORIGINAL: Psych0

Oh and what cost me a lot of time was to put TOE of all to be pocketed units to minimal (20%) so they don't get reinforcements just before they're isolated.

Is there any reason not to put TOE of all others to 100%?

I play around a lot with Soviet ToE, not sure if I'm doing it right though. You might want to have a silent part of the front where you can keep ToE toned down, or you just might be running out of manpower at some point and just have to decide where to direct the recruits. Be aware of your equipment pools, having Max ToE on all BM Howitzer Regiments might end up with you having units without howitzers or using weaker guns. Toning down the ToE you can spread the big guns more evenly.

One rule to remember is that Soviet units get replacements for ground elements only up to 60% no matter what the max ToE is, after that they need to be refitted to fill up to max ToE.

[bigbaba]

My Soviet turns take everything between 4 and 24 hours... no matter what turn it is

indeed. even if you think you are done there is always something else you can do.

the first turn is not bad when we keep in mind that the CIC is an axis beginner. I think some of us had much worse first turns which we try to forget now.

[HardLuckYetAgain]

ORIGINAL: Nix77

What to do with the pockets or units about to be pocketed without hope of escape? Lvov pocket was reopened and combined with my stand around Shepetovka-Proskurov. Some are at least an annoyance to the Krauts and it'll cost him a lot of MP to reseal the pocket. Even more to enlarge that pocket, something I'm judging I prevented sufficiently.

Then the Bialystock pocket-to-be I just made as spread out as possible hugging the Germans. The Courland pocket escaped mostly to Leningrad while the rest moved into the way of the German advance. The only 2 pockets I didn't manage to open are around Kaunas and Kovel.

Get the strongest units to air supply! That's a major annoyance, and who cares if some SB-2s drop in the process! Make the units in the pocket as annoying to remove as possible, use all the rough hexes and fortifications to your advangtage. Try to block rail building and if the opportunity arises, strangle the PzCorps supply lines. Basically just try to buy time. In summer '41 trying to save pockets is a lost cause in most cases. If you can open it without serious commitment, it's probably worth it though. Keeping the pocket area as big as possible is a good thing especially if you're air supplying the units.

Considering that you want your units to be reborn as quickly as possible as the Soviets what does this really gain you? Normally reborn is anywhere from 7-15 turns for Inf Division. PLUS, on top of that the Soviet HQ's are WAY OVER their Command limit, the Germans are helping rectify that situation As a German player I leave the Soviet forces to rot a slow death to auto surrender (yes air supply will prolong it but are you doing yourself any good by doing so?) Just my 2 cents which isnt much.

[Nix77]

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

ORIGINAL: Nix77

What to do with the pockets or units about to be pocketed without hope of escape? Lvov pocket was reopened and combined with my stand around Shepetovka-Proskurov. Some are at least an annoyance to the Krauts and it'll cost him a lot of MP to reseal the pocket. Even more to enlarge that pocket, something I'm judging I prevented sufficiently.

Then the Bialystock pocket-to-be I just made as spread out as possible hugging the Germans. The Courland pocket escaped mostly to Leningrad while the rest moved into the way of the German advance. The only 2 pockets I didn't manage to open are around Kaunas and Kovel.

Get the strongest units to air supply! That's a major annoyance, and who cares if some SB-2s drop in the process! Make the units in the pocket as annoying to remove as possible, use all the rough hexes and fortifications to your advangtage. Try to block rail building and if the opportunity arises, strangle the PzCorps supply lines. Basically just try to buy time. In summer '41 trying to save pockets is a lost cause in most cases. If you can open it without serious commitment, it's probably worth it though. Keeping the pocket area as big as possible is a good thing especially if you're air supplying the units.

Considering that you want your units to be reborn as quickly as possible as the Soviets what does this really gain you? Normally reborn is anywhere from 7-15 turns for Inf Division. PLUS, on top of that the Soviet HQ's are WAY OVER their Command limit, the Germans are helping rectify that situation As a German player I leave the Soviet forces to rot a slow death to auto surrender (yes air supply will prolong it but are you doing yourself any good by doing so?) Just my 2 cents which isnt much.

It's a balancing act! Survive in places where you really can slow down the German player, not just play cat & mouse with some SEC regiments.

If you don't make the pockets annoying, the Germans can still leave them to rot?

But yeah, the "Zombie effect" makes the Soviet game at the start a bit fiddly. If you could drown units to Pripyat marshes by yourself, an efficient Soviet player like HLYA would probably do that (a very Stalinesque maneuver on the other hand!)