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Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat

 
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Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/25/2017 7:33:17 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 22234
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From: Argleton
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In identifying message patterns for the new Intel Monkey, I have noticed something I did not expect but it might only be a limitation of my primary test set of data. That test set consists of all the archived reports from my side and my opponents side in a PBM that ran about 3 years + 8 1/2 months of game time.

LCU are often destroyed during combat, but many times they survive the actual combat (not destroyed, do not surrender) only to be destroyed outside of combat either later that turn or in later turns. There are examples of messages that I see in the combat reports and in the Allied combat events reports. I have not yet checked the Japan combat events reports.
quote:


Sasebo 6th SNLF Wiped Out at Aitape by attrition!!!

Japanese Unit(s) surrounded at Rangoon

So far I am only finding these messages for Japan's units. I have found none for Allied units. My questions to the group:

Are there such messages for Allied units? If so, in which files do they appear for each side?

Are there analogous messages for Allied units - messages which use different verbiage? If so, in which files do they appear for each side?

Obviously I might not have thought of the best questions to ask, so if can shed any light on this please do so!


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RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/25/2017 7:38:05 PM   
Lowpe

 

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I am sure I have wiped Allied units out of combat. I will look.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 2
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/25/2017 7:49:34 PM   
fcharton

 

Posts: 1090
Joined: 10/4/2010
From: France
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Both sides get them, with the same messages. Here are allied examples

108th RN Base Force Wiped Out at Sandakan by attrition!!!
4th Chinese Cavalry Corps Wiped Out at Ankang by attrition!!!
Allied Unit(s) surrounded at Wuhu

By the way, to find such messages, a very handy tool is grep. Saying 'grep "attrition" *.txt' in the directory where you store all your reports will yield a list of all such messages, and the files they belong to.

Francois



< Message edited by fcharton -- 9/25/2017 7:51:43 PM >

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 3
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/25/2017 8:45:56 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 22234
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton

Both sides get them, with the same messages. Here are allied examples

108th RN Base Force Wiped Out at Sandakan by attrition!!!
4th Chinese Cavalry Corps Wiped Out at Ankang by attrition!!!
Allied Unit(s) surrounded at Wuhu
In which reports are you finding these messages?


By the way, to find such messages, a very handy tool is grep. Saying 'grep "attrition" *.txt' in the directory where you store all your reports will yield a list of all such messages, and the files they belong to.
Thanks! I've been searching with other methods but it seems the problem is those messages for Allied don't appear in the batches of reports I have looked at so far. Which might just mean I was lucky in evacuating remnants which would otherwise evaporate to places where they were captured or destroyed outright.

Francois



Thanks again!

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Post #: 4
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/25/2017 9:14:55 PM   
fcharton

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
In which reports are you finding these messages?


Combat report and combat events. They always appear in both.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
I've been searching with other methods but it seems the problem is those messages for Allied don't appear in the batches of reports I have looked at so far.


The good thing with grep is that is works with batches of files.
You might be interested in AWK, too, which is a full-fledged language for processing text files, and searching for patterns in them. In fact, I suspect all the data loading part of your tool could be one big AWK script.

Francois


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 5
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/25/2017 9:23:35 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 22234
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
In which reports are you finding these messages?


Combat report and combat events. They always appear in both.
Thanks. It seems like I simply have an untypical primary test data set in that respect. Well, OK! It seems the only way I can tell which wide the "Wiped Out" messages belong to is to look them up in a database.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
I've been searching with other methods but it seems the problem is those messages for Allied don't appear in the batches of reports I have looked at so far.


The good thing with grep is that is works with batches of files.
You might be interested in AWK, too, which is a full-fledged language for processing text files, and searching for patterns in them. In fact, I suspect all the data loading part of your tool could be one big AWK script.

Francois

I am using regular expressions (you know but for some others reading this: regular expressions are part of what make awk and grep so powerful) inside my code as Python has a very robust re module in the standard library. I've used awk and grep a little bit but it's a while since I had the Windows versions installed. They are very powerful tools.

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Post #: 6
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/26/2017 5:38:44 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 9369
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
In which reports are you finding these messages?


Combat report and combat events. They always appear in both.
Thanks. It seems like I simply have an untypical primary test data set in that respect. Well, OK! It seems the only way I can tell which wide the "Wiped Out" messages belong to is to look them up in a database.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
I've been searching with other methods but it seems the problem is those messages for Allied don't appear in the batches of reports I have looked at so far.


The good thing with grep is that is works with batches of files.
You might be interested in AWK, too, which is a full-fledged language for processing text files, and searching for patterns in them. In fact, I suspect all the data loading part of your tool could be one big AWK script.

Francois

I am using regular expressions (you know but for some others reading this: regular expressions are part of what make awk and grep so powerful) inside my code as Python has a very robust re module in the standard library. I've used awk and grep a little bit but it's a while since I had the Windows versions installed. They are very powerful tools.

Awk?? Grep??? What's wrong with good old fashioned Grok??

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 9/26/2017 5:39:07 AM >


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(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 7
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/26/2017 6:10:48 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 22234
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: fcharton


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
In which reports are you finding these messages?


Combat report and combat events. They always appear in both.
Thanks. It seems like I simply have an untypical primary test data set in that respect. Well, OK! It seems the only way I can tell which wide the "Wiped Out" messages belong to is to look them up in a database.

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs
I've been searching with other methods but it seems the problem is those messages for Allied don't appear in the batches of reports I have looked at so far.


The good thing with grep is that is works with batches of files.
You might be interested in AWK, too, which is a full-fledged language for processing text files, and searching for patterns in them. In fact, I suspect all the data loading part of your tool could be one big AWK script.

Francois

I am using regular expressions (you know but for some others reading this: regular expressions are part of what make awk and grep so powerful) inside my code as Python has a very robust re module in the standard library. I've used awk and grep a little bit but it's a while since I had the Windows versions installed. They are very powerful tools.

Awk?? Grep??? What's wrong with good old fashioned Grok??

That's what he said: Francois groks awk and grep!

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Post #: 8
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/26/2017 11:05:30 AM   
Rafid

 

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Joined: 1/24/2015
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I can confirm, that these appear for allied units as well and then in both the combat report and combat events files.

Note that there might be some version dependence of this: michaelm fixed a bug cocerning surrounded units (exactly on the day) two years ago. I think I remember that before the fix the surrounded message could appear twice, but I can't find the source for this memory fragment. He might changed something about the messages (are they written/where to) back then as well. Most if not all of my existing archives are post that beta. If you couldn't find the messages in your files, they might be older (or just untypical).

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 9
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/26/2017 11:05:30 AM   
alimentary

 

Posts: 88
Joined: 3/22/2010
Status: online
quote:

but it's a while since I had the Windows versions installed

Use findstr.

C:\> findstr <string> file

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 10
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/26/2017 3:02:59 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 22234
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: alimentary


Thank you - I am finding everything that is there with the tools I am using. It's just that the major, large, otherwise most diverse data set I am using for testing happens to have those messages only for one side. My opponent Andav was very vigilant in hunting down stragglers to eliminate possible behind the lines trouble later on so no Allied units got a chance to starve on their own.

The problem I have to solve is the "Wiped Out" unit messages do not specify which side the units belong to. Toward addressing that and other needs for the data, the CSV files of the scenario have been read into a database, and certain information extracted into another database (in the format desired). I'm going to have to look up the name & suffix information in that database to find which side each unit belongs to. There still might be ambiguous cases (units on opposite sides named exactly the same) but I can't do anything about that.

< Message edited by witpqs -- 9/26/2017 3:03:26 PM >


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Post #: 11
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/26/2017 3:04:26 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 22234
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rafid

I can confirm, that these appear for allied units as well and then in both the combat report and combat events files.

Note that there might be some version dependence of this: michaelm fixed a bug cocerning surrounded units (exactly on the day) two years ago. I think I remember that before the fix the surrounded message could appear twice, but I can't find the source for this memory fragment. He might changed something about the messages (are they written/where to) back then as well. Most if not all of my existing archives are post that beta. If you couldn't find the messages in your files, they might be older (or just untypical).

Thanks!

A few extra entries would not be a big deal, especially if the player has the option of upgrading to fix it.

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Post #: 12
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/26/2017 4:06:17 PM   
Lokasenna


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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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Unit(s) surrounded does not mean they died/were destroyed.

IIRC, when a teleporting unit bug was dealt with (I got this message for one of my unit fragments and it teleported to Tokyo), Michael explained what that meant. I think the answer was "a doubling of disabled devices in the unit." The message was not changed at that time.

If a unit is actually wiped out, it will say so. The surrounded message is different.

I have also seen them for Allied units, yes.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 13
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/26/2017 7:53:23 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 22234
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Unit(s) surrounded does not mean they died/were destroyed.

IIRC, when a teleporting unit bug was dealt with (I got this message for one of my unit fragments and it teleported to Tokyo), Michael explained what that meant. I think the answer was "a doubling of disabled devices in the unit." The message was not changed at that time.

If a unit is actually wiped out, it will say so. The surrounded message is different.
I understand that, I am just capturing messages for the player.

I have also seen them for Allied units, yes.
Thanks!



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Post #: 14
RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/26/2017 8:02:31 PM   
Lecivius


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From: Denver
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I think have an AI game, where an allied unit was wiped out by attrition, if that would help?

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

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RE: Messages of Units Destroyed Outside of Combat - 9/26/2017 8:07:57 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 22234
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lecivius

I think have an AI game, where an allied unit was wiped out by attrition, if that would help?

I think I'm already good on that one with so much confirmation the same messages appear for Allied units too. Currently I'm picking my way through extracting information from the combat reports. When I get through that I will have to make the lookup that takes a unit name/suffix and looks for matches in the database to determine which side that unit belongs to.

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Post #: 16
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