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RE: Panzer Division = SUPER MAN

 
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RE: Panzer Division = SUPER MAN - 5/18/2018 7:30:39 AM   
thedoctorking

 

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Yes, I am the Germans in a game against Sparkleytits, so a very experienced German playing as the Russians this time. My 1941 offensive got to the outskirts of Rostov and Voronezh in the south, Vitebsk in the center, but not even past Pskov in the north (my priority was to be prepared to take the Caucasus in 1942; shows you what I know).

His blizzard counteroffensive took me back to about the bend of the Dnepr, Kharkov, and Smolensk, then basically along the Lithuania-Estonia border. My 1942 summer offensives went basically nowhere. I was able to puncture his front but on a narrow line. I was concentrating two panzer armies for dual thrusts in the south and center at first. Then, I decided I'd better do one big push, so I took advantage of weakness along the land bridge and got back about to Smolensk before he could rally troops to stop me. Both times, I killed significant numbers of Russians - over 100,000 a turn - but he had plenty of reserves. By the end of summer, I went over to the defensive, counter-punching when he would attack. His offensives didn't go anywhere either. I had the fun of cutting off a whole Guards Tank Army in one big battle up in southern Estonia.

But basically, I wasn't able to go anywhere against an experienced opponent. Panzer divisions are anything but supermen.

(in reply to Nix77)
Post #: 151
RE: Panzer Division = SUPER MAN - 5/20/2018 4:11:18 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 2091
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: thedoctorking

Yes, I am the Germans in a game against Sparkleytits, so a very experienced German playing as the Russians this time. My 1941 offensive got to the outskirts of Rostov and Voronezh in the south, Vitebsk in the center, but not even past Pskov in the north (my priority was to be prepared to take the Caucasus in 1942; shows you what I know).

His blizzard counteroffensive took me back to about the bend of the Dnepr, Kharkov, and Smolensk, then basically along the Lithuania-Estonia border. My 1942 summer offensives went basically nowhere. I was able to puncture his front but on a narrow line. I was concentrating two panzer armies for dual thrusts in the south and center at first. Then, I decided I'd better do one big push, so I took advantage of weakness along the land bridge and got back about to Smolensk before he could rally troops to stop me. Both times, I killed significant numbers of Russians - over 100,000 a turn - but he had plenty of reserves. By the end of summer, I went over to the defensive, counter-punching when he would attack. His offensives didn't go anywhere either. I had the fun of cutting off a whole Guards Tank Army in one big battle up in southern Estonia.

But basically, I wasn't able to go anywhere against an experienced opponent. Panzer divisions are anything but supermen.


The post really was about the loses, or lack of loses to panzer divisions, not a campaign as a whole. Therefore panzer divisions are still supermen. How you use them, or not use them in the campaign is yet another debate. Along with experience being relative.



_____________________________

“If you teach a man anything, he will never learn.”;

Bernard Shaw

(in reply to thedoctorking)
Post #: 152
RE: Panzer Division = SUPER MAN - 5/20/2018 5:48:52 AM   
beender


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Now that i'm playing as soviet, i get to understand this issue: no matter what i do with German panzers, regiment or division, routed or long-forced retreat, they just don't lose many. And I lose a lot. I agree something need to done so that more losses, men and tanks, should be incurred at least when the German panzer units are defeated in a battle.

(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 153
RE: Panzer Division = SUPER MAN - 5/20/2018 5:08:59 PM   
Crackaces


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Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beender

Now that i'm playing as soviet, i get to understand this issue: no matter what i do with German panzers, regiment or division, routed or long-forced retreat, they just don't lose many. And I lose a lot. I agree something need to done so that more losses, men and tanks, should be incurred at least when the German panzer units are defeated in a battle.


Look after the logistics phase. The battle reports do not show all the tanks lost.

I just posted what I think is an interesting combat report in the 8MP.
Soviets do a bunch of soaking attacks drawing in panzers set in reserve. 27 damged .. the logitics phase (it is blizzard) was not kind.
Now we convince Morvel to make a change to nerf panzers .. Germans quit in the blizzard game goes into obsolence ..


_____________________________

Laughter and tears are both responses to frustration and exhaustion. I myself prefer to laugh, since there is less cleaning up to do afterward. - Kurt Vonnegut

(in reply to beender)
Post #: 154
RE: Panzer Division = SUPER MAN - 5/22/2018 4:53:15 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 703
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: beender

Now that i'm playing as soviet, i get to understand this issue: no matter what i do with German panzers, regiment or division, routed or long-forced retreat, they just don't lose many. And I lose a lot. I agree something need to done so that more losses, men and tanks, should be incurred at least when the German panzer units are defeated in a battle.

Attack the german Infantry and if you can work it out any unit with support units attached.

_____________________________

'Listen carefully; I will tell you this only once'

'I beg your pardon?'

(in reply to beender)
Post #: 155
RE: Panzer Division = SUPER MAN - 5/22/2018 4:57:59 AM   
56ajax


Posts: 703
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Carnegie, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: beender

Now that i'm playing as soviet, i get to understand this issue: no matter what i do with German panzers, regiment or division, routed or long-forced retreat, they just don't lose many. And I lose a lot. I agree something need to done so that more losses, men and tanks, should be incurred at least when the German panzer units are defeated in a battle.


Look after the logistics phase. The battle reports do not show all the tanks lost.

I just posted what I think is an interesting combat report in the 8MP.
Soviets do a bunch of soaking attacks drawing in panzers set in reserve. 27 damged .. the logitics phase (it is blizzard) was not kind.
Now we convince Morvel to make a change to nerf panzers .. Germans quit in the blizzard game goes into obsolence ..


My question here is Are we playing a game or a Barbarossa simulation? If the latter then yes check out what happens in the logistics phase and let the computer do it all, play in the editor to change some items and come back in a couple of weeks...

If it is a game then increase the excitement value by giving the player some reward for attacking a Panzer division.

_____________________________

'Listen carefully; I will tell you this only once'

'I beg your pardon?'

(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 156
RE: Panzer Division = SUPER MAN - 5/22/2018 5:29:48 PM   
thedoctorking

 

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Joined: 4/29/2017
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My reward for attacking a panzer division is that if I win (even at great cost) I get the hex. If it is a hex that opens a pocket or pockets some German armored spearheads, it pays off in a big way. Opening a pocket means that those units will live another turn and continue to screw up German movement with ZOC's (since they will not be in "isolated" status during the subsequent German turn and so can only be routed or shattered by German attacks, not surrendered). Pocketing German spearheads means that they won't draw supplies in the subsequent logistics phase, further slowing the German advance. It's all about limiting how far the Germans can go with those panzers before the rains start.

(in reply to 56ajax)
Post #: 157
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