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You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping units

 
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You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping units - 9/1/2017 12:25:49 PM   
OxfordGuy3


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When swapping units (i.e. using the actual swap position function, not regular movement), I think it's highly unrealistic that ALL entrenchment is lost for both units/hexes. If trenches and prepared positions have been prepared, why would these suddenly completely disappear when a replacement unit is rotated in? I think it would be more realistic if, when swapping unit positions, just one entrenchment level is lost (as the two units may have slightly different entrenchment requirements) for each hex. In fact this is exactly how things work in Commander Europe at War GS, and seems to work out fine.

Is there any chance this change could be implemented in a future patch?
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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/9/2017 5:09:55 PM   
OxfordGuy3


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Gentle bump on this - why is ALL entrenchment lost when swapping units? Would make more sense just to lose one , at most two entrenchment levels

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/9/2017 6:00:25 PM   
Christolos


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I understood that this was addressed with the v1.09.07 Beta patch:

  • units that swap will now lose a single entrenchment point rather than being reset to 0.

C

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/9/2017 6:24:44 PM   
OxfordGuy3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CC1

I understood that this was addressed with the v1.09.07 Beta patch:

  • units that swap will now lose a single entrenchment point rather than being reset to 0.

C


Great! I'm not up with the current beta. I wonder if that affects BOTH units?

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/9/2017 6:32:46 PM   
Christolos


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I'm not sure but I would think that it applies to both units...

C

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/9/2017 6:35:56 PM   
OxfordGuy3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CC1

I'm not sure but I would think that it applies to both units...

C


Would make sense

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/10/2017 9:59:16 PM   
baloo7777


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I can confirm that both units lose 1 entrench point when swapping in 1.09.07 beta.

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/14/2017 4:33:30 PM   
Steely Glint


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About time! I can personally attest that you should lose no more than that when your unit is replacing another dug-in unit, and this nonsense that all entrenchment is lost on unit replacement has always angered me. It was a truly terrible and ignorant design decision that is now finally being fixed.

Hurray! Better way late than never!

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/14/2017 6:12:17 PM   
OxfordGuy3


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Hopefully the bug where bombers lose entrenchment whenever they attack will also be fixed

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/14/2017 6:43:07 PM   
The Land

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: oxford_guy

Hopefully the bug where bombers lose entrenchment whenever they attack will also be fixed


hopefully by removing entrenchment from bomber units entirely!

Admittedly if you dug a Lancaster into a very big trench so its front, top and rear turrets were all visible somehow, then it would be a decent machine-gun bunker, but not a great use of resources.... ;)

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/14/2017 7:38:57 PM   
OxfordGuy3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: The Land


quote:

ORIGINAL: oxford_guy

Hopefully the bug where bombers lose entrenchment whenever they attack will also be fixed


hopefully by removing entrenchment from bomber units entirely!

Admittedly if you dug a Lancaster into a very big trench so its front, top and rear turrets were all visible somehow, then it would be a decent machine-gun bunker, but not a great use of resources.... ;)


They can only ever gain one entrenchment anyway - for air units I see it more as use of camouflage and other concealment practices, or use of sandbags around aircraft, which would reduce sideways blast from bombs not actually land *on* the aircraft.




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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/14/2017 9:34:32 PM   
Sugar

 

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quote:

Hurray! Better way late than never!


Hurray, we're fighting the second WW just like the first!

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/15/2017 1:22:46 AM   
IrishGuards


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hmmmm .. your actually talking about different classes of entrenchments and fortifications
strategic and tactical and battlefield are quite different ... its what there attacked by that counts ...
or should be ..

IG

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/25/2017 2:38:04 AM   
Steely Glint


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Dug in is dug in, Irish. Trust me on this one.

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/25/2017 12:36:12 PM   
OxfordGuy3


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It's a bit bizarre how the entrenchment and unit swapping mechanism works now, though (e.g. see the oddity I reported in the Tech Support section).

I swapped a unit on a hill that had entrenchment 1 with one in a city (at entrenchment 4) - under 1.10 I was expected the unit I moved into the city to have entrenchment 3 and the unit I moved onto the hill to have entrenchment 1 or 0, but no - the unit on the hill now has entrenchment 3 and the unit in the city has entrenchment 0. It seems that all the happens it units literally lose one entrenchment level, which doesn't really make sense - the entrenchment should be related to the position, not the unit - this is how it works in similar games (e.g. Commander Europe at War GS) - how did the unit from the city "carry" it's 3 entrenchment with it? It prepared the entrenched position in the city, so the unit that moved into the hex should be the one to benefit from the prepared position. The position on the hill was barely prepared, so why should the unit that moved there suddenly be able in increase entrenchment by 2 levels. I think this new mechanic needs to be reviewed.

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/25/2017 1:34:41 PM   
The Land

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: OxfordGuy3

It's a bit bizarre how the entrenchment and unit swapping mechanism works now, though (e.g. see the oddity I reported in the Tech Support section).

I swapped a unit on a hill that had entrenchment 1 with one in a city (at entrenchment 4) - under 1.10 I was expected the unit I moved into the city to have entrenchment 3 and the unit I moved onto the hill to have entrenchment 1 or 0, but no - the unit on the hill now has entrenchment 3 and the unit in the city has entrenchment 0. It seems that all the happens it units literally lose one entrenchment level, which doesn't really make sense - the entrenchment should be related to the position, not the unit - this is how it works in similar games (e.g. Commander Europe at War GS) - how did the unit from the city "carry" it's 3 entrenchment with it? It prepared the entrenched position in the city, so the unit that moved into the hex should be the one to benefit from the prepared position. The position on the hill was barely prepared, so why should the unit that moved there suddenly be able in increase entrenchment by 2 levels. I think this new mechanic needs to be reviewed.



That sounds... highly exploitable ;) *goes to try to extend the Maginot Line by swapping units out of it*

I agree the entrenchment level should be based on the destination hex not the source.

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/25/2017 1:44:58 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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Thank you and this is already fixed on my end for the next update.

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/25/2017 2:01:34 PM   
OxfordGuy3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

Thank you and this is already fixed on my end for the next update.


Great! So in the example I gave above, would the unit that moved to the city get 3 entrenchment and the unit that moved to the hill get 0 (or 1, perhaps)?

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/25/2017 2:30:49 PM   
Hubert Cater

 

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It would be 3 and 0.



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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/25/2017 3:57:03 PM   
OxfordGuy3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hubert Cater

It would be 3 and 0.



Okay, sounds reasonable enough, so it's basically swapping the entrenchment values of both units,then deducting one (or more, I presume, if the remainder is more than the max entrenchment of the terrain?)?

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/25/2017 3:57:33 PM   
OxfordGuy3


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BTW why do units lose effectiveness when swapping position?

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/25/2017 8:50:51 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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They are effectively passing through each other, and it is the price for the confusion/difficulties that can occur when doing so. The bonus being of course that the swapping units can keep some of the entrenchment that the other unit had.

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RE: You should not lose all entrenchment when swapping ... - 10/25/2017 9:03:18 PM   
OxfordGuy3


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

They are effectively passing through each other, and it is the price for the confusion/difficulties that can occur when doing so. The bonus being of course that the swapping units can keep some of the entrenchment that the other unit had.


Okay, fair enough

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