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Pole Position (Spoilers) - 7/28/2017 1:02:26 PM   
Primarchx


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So I've started Pole Position and like the fact that it's really about espionage/sabotage over combat. You only have a small number of SSN/SSGNs at your disposal with some detachable units aboard - RHIBs, SDVs, etc.

Starts out with three Virginia and Seawolf SSNs given patrol boxes under the ice. Other subs have more involved missions. The Jimmy Carter is to head off to an underwater power generator and hover, the Ohio is to be in position to start taking Russian SOSUS points out and the Dallas is ferrying spec ops around to conduct on-site cyber attacks against the Russian SOSUS control nodes.

There are a few ancillary units out of your control that don't add that much to the game. A pair of CP-140 Auroras is in the Bering Sea area and there's a land-based air search radar in that region as well. A couple of USN SSBNs are on patrol near the operations area. Otherwise not much.

Set the various boats on their way. Patroling SSNs troll their zones and the others head toward their objective areas. Dallas gets on station by the closest control station and sends in their SEAL Delivery Vehicle. SEALs march to the objective (and spot a pair of Tu-142s flying around), hang out for a couple of hours and are then retrieved by an RHIB from the Dallas.

While I'm told the cyber attack is successful I don't really know what that means. It may be spelled out in the orders or message but I didn't pick up on it. I thought maybe it unlinks the SOSUS points with Russian navy units so I can approach them and not worry if my unit gets detected? Not sure.

Also I see a problem with the range of the SDV. It only has a few hours of battery and has a speed of 6 kts. You need to drop it pretty close to be able to retrieve it. I was able to drive the Dallas closer to the shore without broaching to pick it up before it ran dry.

Dallas then goes VDeep and scoots at 25kts to the second control node. In the meantime Ohio has gotten on station but I'm unsure if I want to start taking out SOSUS points(and how do I do that? Just drive the UUV up to it?) because I don't know if the Cyber attack has covered the approach. Jimmy Carter arrives on station and has to spend several days examining the power plant. The three other SSNs have seen nothing other than Biologics and continue their patrols.

When Dallas reaches the second control node it looks like the sub can't approach to any more than 40nm. The SDV does not have the range to get to the drop off and back to the Dallas. In fact it might not be able to make the beach, period. My thinking was that maybe I need to disable more than one control node with SEALs to allow the Ohio to proceed with its' mission. But now I'm stuck.

Any hints on how to proceed? Thanks!

< Message edited by Primarchx -- 7/28/2017 1:03:15 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 7/28/2017 2:29:48 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Primarchx

The dilemma of the cyber attack is that you just don't know how effective it is, and things could come back on line over time.

The cyber attack should render the communications between the SOSUS nodes and the rest of the world inoperative - for a time. Thus you have a window of opportunity where your detection from the SOSUS nodes will not be transmitted to the rest of the Russian force, allowing you to go in and disable them.

You're comments do tell me that I'll have to adjust the briefing to make that more clear, and that the Dallas' mission should also be clarified. You only need to do the SEAL trick once, and yes you need to chose your spot wisely.

Hope that helps.

B


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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 7/28/2017 2:48:42 PM   
Primarchx


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Thanks, Gunner! I wasn't sure what the outcome of the cyber attack was going to be. I assume I then send in the UUV to hit the sensors?

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 7/28/2017 2:58:41 PM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

I assume I then send in the UUV to hit the sensors


Yes, I cannot remember the time required but you should get a message

B

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 7/28/2017 4:28:12 PM   
Maromak


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

quote:

I assume I then send in the UUV to hit the sensors


Yes, I cannot remember the time required but you should get a message

B


I believe it is two hours.

_____________________________

Certa Cito

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 7/28/2017 7:26:46 PM   
Tailhook

 

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So then does only one cluster need to be taken out by Ohio? That was another thing not clear with the briefing.

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 7/28/2017 7:34:52 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Multiple if possible.

B

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 7/29/2017 1:34:23 AM   
Primarchx


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Here's my tally for that first game. Could of gotten a couple more Cluster Lance but spent a while hovering while trying to determine what to do. No sign of Russian sub activity at all. Tu-142s were picked up flying in a 2-ship group along the northern Russian coast and a Be-12 was picked up for a while as well. Scored a Major Victory.

quote:

6/29/2017 12:32 PM: Score changed from 0 to 100. Reason: Event Action: 'US +100' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cyber Attack')

6/29/2017 1:23 PM: Score changed from 100 to 150. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cyber Team Extract 3')

7/1/2017 3:33 AM: Score changed from 150 to 200. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - CH3 Removed')

7/1/2017 1:37 PM: Score changed from 200 to 250. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - CH2 Removed')

7/2/2017 12:34 AM: Score changed from 250 to 300. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - CH1 Removed')

7/2/2017 2:18 AM: Score changed from 300 to 400. Reason: Event Action: 'US +100' has been fired (part of Event: 'PZ Alaska')

7/2/2017 2:35 AM: Score changed from 400 to 500. Reason: Event Action: 'US +100' has been fired (part of Event: 'PZ Greenland')

7/2/2017 12:12 PM: Score changed from 500 to 550. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - ES1 Removed')

7/2/2017 9:51 PM: Score changed from 550 to 600. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - ES2 Removed')

7/3/2017 12:27 PM: Score changed from 600 to 650. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - ES3 Removed')

7/4/2017 7:49 AM: Score changed from 650 to 750. Reason: Event Action: 'US +100' has been fired (part of Event: 'PZ Ridge')

7/4/2017 9:22 AM: Score changed from 750 to 850. Reason: Event Action: 'US +100' has been fired (part of Event: 'ATGU')

7/4/2017 1:22 PM: Score changed from 850 to 900. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - LP2 Removed')



< Message edited by Primarchx -- 7/29/2017 1:35:23 AM >

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 7/31/2017 9:55:07 PM   
Tailhook

 

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Had a lot of fun finishing this one up, but I think it needs a tiny bit of work.

My experience was similar to Primarch. Didn't detect any of the special mission submarines. Mississippi did detect a Yasen class SSN (that didn't detect it) while patrolling off Alaska. I gave it a wide berth and continued my patrol. Illinois finished it's patrol without detecting anything besides Whales. However, on the transit to help the Seawolf search the central ridge, it detected a Borey class SSBN. I decided that tailing this would be more interesting, so that's what she spent the rest of the mission doing (again, undetected). Dallas rode shotgun for the Jimmy Carter while it finished the last 2 days of inspections on the ATGU, having completed the SEAL insertion. The Ohio sprinted from array to array, dropping off the Echo Voyager (what an impressive machine!) real close to the array, hedging my bets that the communications would stay down. Doing this I was able to disable every single operational cluster lance, although there was a funny bug with one (explained below). As the scenario ended, Illinois continued it's tail, Seawolf and Mississippi continued their fruitless patrols, Ohio was heading for the inactive arrays, and Jimmy Carter for a [removed] disabled array for a role playing snatch operation. All in all, very fun and I recommended it to a friend of mine going through submarine training. Well done.

Two problems I noticed:
1 - With the Cluster Lance in the vicinity of 80N 154E, deploying the echo voyager acted very weird because it considers it under the ice pack even though the map shows it's not. They kept teleporting the submersible well north of the Ohio and not letting me give it orders due to no Diesel submarine operations under ice. Tried this a couple times until I reloaded and brought it well south of the array to deploy it. I recommend moving this array a few miles south so it doesn't interfere with Echo Voyager operations.
2 - I don't think the special mission subs moved. I loaded a couple different saves and they were always in the same spot, at 98 feet and 0 knots (corresponding to their start positions). Maybe I broke the LUA somehow but I never messed around with the editor on my initial play through. It looked like they are supposed to move around to different construction points, but I didn't see anything and thus wasn't able to detect them (One save showed one of my SSNs well within detection range if it had been moving).

Triumph
Your final score is: 1100

6/30/2017 05:25: Score changed from 0 to 100. Reason: Event Action: 'US +100' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cyber Attack')
6/30/2017 05:58: Score changed from 100 to 150. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cyber Team Extract 3')
6/30/2017 09:47: Score changed from 150 to 200. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - CH3 Removed')
6/30/2017 16:13: Score changed from 200 to 250. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - CH2 Removed')
7/1/2017 00:38: Score changed from 250 to 300. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - CH1 Removed')
7/1/2017 08:53: Score changed from 300 to 350. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - ES1 Removed')
7/1/2017 15:53: Score changed from 350 to 400. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - ES2 Removed')
7/2/2017 02:59: Score changed from 400 to 450. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - ES3 Removed')
7/2/2017 06:01: Score changed from 450 to 550. Reason: Event Action: 'US +100' has been fired (part of Event: 'PZ Greenland')
7/2/2017 07:04: Score changed from 550 to 650. Reason: Event Action: 'US +100' has been fired (part of Event: 'PZ Ridge')
7/2/2017 08:12: Score changed from 650 to 750. Reason: Event Action: 'US +100' has been fired (part of Event: 'PZ Alaska')
7/2/2017 13:22: Score changed from 750 to 800. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - LP1 Removed')
7/2/2017 23:30: Score changed from 800 to 850. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - LP2 Removed')
7/3/2017 12:50: Score changed from 850 to 900. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - LP3 Removed')
7/4/2017 03:45: Score changed from 900 to 950. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - SV1 Removed')
7/4/2017 18:04: Score changed from 950 to 1000. Reason: Event Action: 'US +50' has been fired (part of Event: 'Cluster Lance - SV2 Removed')
7/4/2017 18:37: Score changed from 1000 to 1100. Reason: Event Action: 'US +100' has been fired (part of Event: 'ATGU')

< Message edited by Tailhook -- 7/31/2017 9:57:21 PM >

(in reply to Primarchx)
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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 7/31/2017 10:46:52 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Thanks Tailhook

I noticed your first point on Kushan's stream the other night and will fix.

For your second point, is it possible that you were opening from a saved .scn file? They are moved about randomly in a scenario start event, and the event is then deactivated when opened again.

I will double check the base file.

thanks

B

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 12:48:38 AM   
Tailhook

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Thanks Tailhook

I noticed your first point on Kushan's stream the other night and will fix.

For your second point, is it possible that you were opening from a saved .scn file? They are moved about randomly in a scenario start event, and the event is then deactivated when opened again.

I will double check the base file.

thanks

B

I just ininstalled the DLC and re-installed via Steam. The subs were in the same starting spot, and none of the special mission subs (or their escorts) were assigned to a mission. I didn't run it for very long, so maybe they are assigned to a mission later, but still.

Can you PM me a fresh .scen file? I don't see how I could have modified mine and I hoped steam would be a fresh install, but you never know.

< Message edited by Tailhook -- 8/1/2017 12:49:20 AM >

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 12:53:03 AM   
Gunner98

 

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No they should have been assigned immediately. I'll check. Thanks

Not sure my files will work with your licence. Might be something messed up.

B

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 1:04:43 AM   
Gunner98

 

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OK

There is a problem and I will get a fix to the Dev's ASAP

The .Scen file has the 'scenario start' event deactivated.

Easy fix: Go in the editor, open Editor/Editor Events/Events

Go to the 'Scenario Start' event.
Edit that event
Tick the box 'Event is Active'
Close everything
Save the game under a different name
Open it up again
You should see the notification that the 'Scenario Start' event has been fired.

Sorry about that, not sure what happened.

B

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 7:17:20 AM   
Tailhook

 

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That fixed it, I'll give it another run.

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 7:45:52 AM   
RafaleKiwi


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Just like to add that really enjoyed my first play though of Pole Position as US.

I liked the covert side of this and in my opinion is a far more realistic contemporary use of Naval Forces (Touch wood it remains this way).

A couple of observations:

A pop up appears saying "The Patrol of PZ XXXX is completed, you may re-task those assets" that meant nothing to me as the PZ's were called something different in the Brief and the markers. So I kept all patrols on Station

I got either greedy or reckless and tired to launch a second Cyber attack at a different SHELF - moved my SDV to the beach and I was advised of the drop off of the team (at beach 2), but they did not spawn onto the ground so I couldn't complete the second attempt. I tried a second time after re-docking at Dallas and was totally ignored so the trigger worked once as I would expect. The First attack was as Beach 3.

Lastly Jimmy Carter was spawned about 100 NM south of the start Bearing Straight which means it didn't give me a lot of time to get it on station and do it's task, in fact time expired before it's mission was was complete.

And sorry I don't have a save for the SEAL issue if you are allowed t do more than one attack. Edit Just read the preceding posts
quote:

You only need to do the SEAL trick once


But kudos to the designer I really enjoyed it, even if I did only get 550 Average. I made these observations not to be critical but to potentially improve and already good scenario.


Attachment (1)

< Message edited by RafaleKiwi -- 8/1/2017 8:30:16 AM >

(in reply to Gunner98)
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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 9:41:38 AM   
Grazyn

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

OK

There is a problem and I will get a fix to the Dev's ASAP

The .Scen file has the 'scenario start' event deactivated.

Easy fix: Go in the editor, open Editor/Editor Events/Events

Go to the 'Scenario Start' event.
Edit that event
Tick the box 'Event is Active'
Close everything
Save the game under a different name
Open it up again
You should see the notification that the 'Scenario Start' event has been fired.

Sorry about that, not sure what happened.

B

Hello, first I must say I really like your scenario, thoroughly researched and detailed.
I didn't notice this thread so I reported the bug you mentioned in the tech support forum (can't link the thread for some reason but it's on the first page), as you can see in the second post in that thread there seems to be other issues that are not fixed by activating the event, namely the Seawolf and the Ohio not being automatically assigned to their missions when playing as Russia and US subs that fire on you due to patrol RoEs even before they get the "sink one sub" event.

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 10:47:27 AM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

Lastly Jimmy Carter was spawned about 100 NM south


Thanks, appreciate that. Will check the patrol messages to make sure they match the tasked patrols.

The Jimmy Carter has 6 random start positions. With the Scenario Start event enabled she should move around a bit, with the scenario start setup that came with the release and isn't changing, she is in the worst possible position for the player

I'll make sure that its clear in the orders about the SEAL team.


Cheers

(in reply to RafaleKiwi)
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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 10:53:24 AM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

namely the Seawolf and the Ohio not being automatically assigned


Grazyn

Well spotted on the deactivated event. That should be fixed now. In that event it checks to see if you are on the human side before assigning the missions. So if you changed to the Russian side and fired it, all the US subs should be assigned to missions but the Russian ones won't be.

I will check on the posture settings.

Thanks

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 12:26:21 PM   
Grazyn

 

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I checked it by starting the scenario in normal mode (with event activated) on Russian side, I unpaused and let a few seconds pass, then I saved and loaded the save in editor mode. Changed sides to US and noticed that all subs got assigned correctly to their missions except for the Seawolf and Ohio.

< Message edited by Grazyn -- 8/1/2017 12:28:42 PM >

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 12:50:49 PM   
Gunner98

 

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OK I'll double check that - thanks

B

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 1:16:49 PM   
Grazyn

 

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Thank you!
One last thing (this is really minor and easy fixable from editor but since we're talking fixes might as well mention it): side briefing for US warns about oil explorations ships using powerful sonars, however the 2 vessels (Exon explorer and Polar explorer) don't have any sonar, unlike the environmental ships which get their sonars and additional sensors from the .ini file. They are also assigned to SEAD patrols for some reason.

< Message edited by Grazyn -- 8/1/2017 1:17:21 PM >

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 1:25:44 PM   
Gunner98

 

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The SEAD patrol is an expedient to get them to behave the way I'd like.

I'll fix the sonars, was thinking that there might be too much for the player to deal with and the threat would suffice, but players seem to be handling the congestion well.

B

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 7:48:30 PM   
Tailhook

 

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Ice at Wrangel island prevents using the SDV for delivery with Dallas (the under ice non nuclear submarine issue). I'm also not sure that the water around Kotelny island is deep enough to use the Dallas in and launch the SDV properly (a surface launch is theoretically doable but I might as well just use the RHIB if I have to surface a nuclear sub off shore. This leaves Komsomelets and Alexandra islands as the best candidates for a submerged raid by Dallas, but if she spawns near the Bering Sea then it's a long journey, leaving little time for Ohio to raid multiple clusters.

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 8:47:33 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Decisions, Decisions

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 10:12:57 PM   
Tailhook

 

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Mission seems to be working fully as intended now, and it's better than before! With 4 days left:

Illinois detected a Delta IV Stretch and an escorting Akula off of Greenland. She is keeping a tail on her, monitoring as it works at the seafloor. I'm fairly confident I've remained undetected.

Ohio is sitting out of range of a cluster lance, waiting on Dallas to transit from the Bering Sea to Kotelny Island and disable the sensors (almost there).

Jimmy Carter has been inspecting the reactor for about a day now, without a peep of nearby activity. Dallas will rejoin her as an escort once the SEAL insertion is complete.

Mississippi is checking out each inactive Cluster Lance site, hoping to catch a construction sub. She just identified an SSN which may be a possible escort.

Seawolf got very, very interesting. I had her transiting along the ridge, alternating above and below the layer. Suddenly, an Akula was detected sprinting right for her, above the layer and about 15 miles out. I crash dove under it and went all silent, waiting for her to noisily pass overhead. This was rewarded because not far behind was the Belgograd Oscar II construction sub, about 50 nm behind the escort. The detection of this sub, combined with the Delta IV stretch and reactor inspection was apparently enough evidence for Washington to authorize me to "persuade" the Russians that we meant business, giving permission to give a Russian sub an "accident". Although Illinois had been trailing the Delta IV for 2 days at this point with a perfect firing solution, I gave Seawolf permission to sink the Belgograd since she was well under the ice pack whereas the Delta was not. My reasoning being that this would make follow up inspections to determine a cause very difficult, especially at 11,000 feet. Plus, Kursk recently suffered a disastrous explosion so it's not like the type is known for it's safety... With that in mind, a single ADCAP torpedo was enough to eliminate the monstrous construction submarine, without a hint of return fire. I'm not allowed to engage any others, as fun as it would be.

Exciting stuff, Gunner. Great mission!.

< Message edited by Tailhook -- 8/1/2017 10:16:08 PM >

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/1/2017 10:35:14 PM   
Grazyn

 

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I spent a lot of time waiting for the random weather to roll a sea state lower than 4 so that I could use the RHIB (max sea state 3) only to realize that it can indeed survive state 4 anyway

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/8/2017 9:51:45 PM   
giantsquid

 

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Thanks devs and Gunner for this interesting and inspiring scenario. Great research work and nice concept. Well done! One of my favorite LIVE, together with Spratly Spat.

I didn’t discover any fault and I played the last version of the scenario. SDV and Echo Voyager don’t go under ice, even for a few miles, and this may cause some problem in the scenario (maybe a bug?) especially in Wrangell base. I got all the objective, disabling 10 cluster lance. Patrolling at 3 kn along the ridges in Spitzbergen and Northwind I managed to find the Delta III and Delta IV and their escort, trailing them easily. After the SEAL mission on Komsomolets, some Russian unit turned hostile (red) and one of my Virginia SSN automatically engaged the Delta III that was in torpedo range, without me giving command (used default ROE). It was killed and the escorting Akula didn’t find me. I have been given 250 points for this, with a message stating that 1 sub lost could be an accident, 2 an act of war. I didn’t engage any other sub in the scenario, keeping distance from the others I detected. The sabotage mission with the Ohio and its amazing UUV has been flawless.

I would like to see other scenarios like this, exploring the possibility of modern SSN equipped with new UUV/UAV able to perform different missions.

Great work anyway

Francesco


< Message edited by giantsquid -- 8/8/2017 9:52:23 PM >

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/8/2017 9:58:47 PM   
Galahad78

 

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I'm just starting the scenario, getting a knack on the tasks and how to complete them (I'm playing Russian side).

Couple of things I've noticed:

· Some Yankee skipper is quite trigger happy, they've killed a biologics with a 6 Mk48 salvo (happened already on two different games)

· Pantera detects the Illinois trolling happily at 20 kts. Perhaps the US SSN has a sniff of the old Akula because she suddenly slows to 5 kts, closes on the unsuspecting Russian SSN (who, automatically, has labeled Illinois as Neutral upon identification) and then...fires two Mk48 torpedoes is this intended behaviour? Is there a war going on and I haven't been informed?

PS: BTW, Pantera fires back and sinks Illinois, narrowly escaping the two Mk48s. However Moscow says that one American SSN sunk is enough they fired first!!! (like Han Solo )

< Message edited by Galahad78 -- 8/8/2017 10:01:40 PM >

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RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/9/2017 10:04:54 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Thanks

Next update will have them on Weapons Tight.

(in reply to Galahad78)
Post #: 29
RE: Pole Position (Spoilers) - 8/27/2017 1:36:03 PM   
kbrown1950


Posts: 11
Joined: 5/15/2014
Status: offline
I'm not clear on exactly how to get the seal team ashore on Alexandra Island, I assume ice isn't a problem there (how would I tell?). I've tried moving the Dallas into the reference point area and leaving it there, I was thinking the SDV would deploy automatically but it still shows up on the Dallas (Boats: 2/2). I've tried various depths including surface with speed 0. I've also manually launched the SDV and moved it to within the beach points but the Seals still show up as being on the Dallas hours later. In the first instance should I see the SDV being deployed and moving to shore or does it get teleported to the shore area? What about the Seal team, what should I see there, should they show up within the shore area and need to be moved to the Cyber points. Lastly, will there be any log messages indicating anything about the cyber attack (successful attempt or failure)? Appreciate any help with this. Thanks.

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 30
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