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Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE

 
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Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/17/2017 5:46:07 PM   
Searry

 

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So how's the complexity compared to WITE? Do I have to learn a bunch of new stuff and read a big manual for days like a book?
I just recently graduated to these grognard level games from AGEOD and Paradox titles and I feel right at home but this game looks almost too big.
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RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/17/2017 6:46:34 PM   
stolypin

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry

So how's the complexity compared to WITE? Do I have to learn a bunch of new stuff and read a big manual for days like a book?
I just recently graduated to these grognard level games from AGEOD and Paradox titles and I feel right at home but this game looks almost too big.


Not sure how much added complexity is planned for TOAW IV but I can say that TOAW III is nowhere near as complex at WITE / WITW.

(in reply to Searry)
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RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/17/2017 6:56:35 PM   
Searry

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stolypin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry

So how's the complexity compared to WITE? Do I have to learn a bunch of new stuff and read a big manual for days like a book?
I just recently graduated to these grognard level games from AGEOD and Paradox titles and I feel right at home but this game looks almost too big.


Not sure how much added complexity is planned for TOAW IV but I can say that TOAW III is nowhere near as complex at WITE / WITW.


Maybe it's just the UI and graphics then which cause the dread.

(in reply to stolypin)
Post #: 3
RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/18/2017 11:10:25 PM   
Rosseau

 

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It's easy to push around counters in both games, but playing well is another story. For example, I am very far from ever challenging another human. Maybe an Ape

(in reply to Searry)
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RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/19/2017 12:44:24 AM   
alwaysdime

 

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If you can play War In The East you can handle this one. I have played this since they came out almost 20 years ago. You'll be fine.

(in reply to Rosseau)
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RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/19/2017 11:23:53 AM   
larrybush


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This game is far easier to play than WITE. In my opinion the air game and the other details (within the spreadsheet)in WITE take a lot of study to get good at. And they make a huge difference if they are handled well.

You can play small scenarios that give you a pretty good feel of mechanics of this game. There is less going on in the little details than WITE.

Mastering any title takes some time though...

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RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/19/2017 11:27:43 AM   
HPT KUNZ


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I concur with Grognerd's comments...

< Message edited by HPT KUNZ -- 7/19/2017 12:16:43 PM >


_____________________________

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Vietnam Combat Operations by Stéphane MOUTIN LUYAT aka Boonierat.

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RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/20/2017 2:45:45 AM   
Lobster


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If you have played games with the same movement/combat mechanics as GG WitE but not like TOAW you may have a problem understanding how to play a game that treats time and movement realistically (as much as a turn based game can).

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RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/20/2017 6:36:38 AM   
JPJ

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry
I feel right at home but this game looks almost too big.


I wouldn't worry about the depth of TOAW when starting. If you like it then probably it can fit your style.

TOAW is so big because it comes with many scenarios, you can add your own scenarios, and it scales well from small to large battles and real and hypothetical ones across many decades (even centuries, if you count from Leipzig 1813 in a standard TAOW 3 installation). So, you can play it small and big.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry

Do I have to learn a bunch of new stuff ... ?


Not sure but probably not. Depending on your previous experience, for example the TOAW way of time/movement resolution may be something new to notice, but overall I would say TOAW 3 gameplay is quite straightforward and intuitive. I don't expect TOAW 4 to be much different. Not to say there are no details under the surface, but when starting you'll be fine without getting into them first.

You can play small scenarios by moving units around quickly, but also take time and explore individual scenarios exhaustively and then it becomes another story. I would say in TOAW 3 you can enjoy beginner's play and speed play from the first time and grow into it, and if it is your style you will find it really shines with lenghty and in-depth play. I find it pretty flexible. Try some small scenarios first to get a feel of it.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry

Do I have to ... read a big manual for days like a book?


If you have played similar games you probably can get to play TOAW quite well quite soon without most of the manual. But it depends on you. I am the kind of player that reads manuals in detail and have them on my desk and find the TOAW manual valuable for my gameplay. (I would love to have even more tables and battle formulas to plan and play, even if I can advance without.) It is great the makers paid attention to the manual and I can recommend it if you really want to get into it. There are shorter tutorials, too.

< Message edited by JPJ -- 7/20/2017 6:41:37 AM >

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RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/20/2017 1:23:57 PM   
wodin


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I'd say GGWITE was more intimidating than TOAW.

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RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/20/2017 1:41:40 PM   
zakblood


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GGWITE is hard but GGWITW is easier and TOAW is below both so not a groghead hardness type of game either with a 1000 things to remember and do each and every turn, so agree with Wodin


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RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/22/2017 7:54:22 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: stolypin


quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry

So how's the complexity compared to WITE? Do I have to learn a bunch of new stuff and read a big manual for days like a book?
I just recently graduated to these grognard level games from AGEOD and Paradox titles and I feel right at home but this game looks almost too big.


Not sure how much added complexity is planned for TOAW IV but I can say that TOAW III is nowhere near as complex at WITE / WITW.



Have to agree with the above. It just looks daunting but it's not. Very easy to get into and pretty easy to play. It just throws so much at you at once but, once you get that down it's a piece of cake and no large manuals to read on the toilet.

(in reply to stolypin)
Post #: 12
RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/22/2017 12:32:25 PM   
pzgndr

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry
...this game looks almost too big.


TOAW is more of a game engine than a single stand-alone game. There are many different scenarios of varying scale and scope. Russian front scenarios can span from battalion to corps level, so really it's a question of how much detail a player wants to handle. TOAW provides players choices; WITE is one size, take it or leave it.

(in reply to Searry)
Post #: 13
RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/22/2017 6:16:56 PM   
HPT KUNZ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr


quote:

ORIGINAL: Searry
...this game looks almost too big.


TOAW is more of a game engine than a single stand-alone game. There are many different scenarios of varying scale and scope. Russian front scenarios can span from battalion to corps level, so really it's a question of how much detail a player wants to handle. TOAW provides players choices; WITE is one size, take it or leave it.


I am the designer of The Road to Moscow Series for TOAW. Briefly it is eight linked battles from Crossing the Border, to Soviet Counteroffensive, to a What If?. One day turns, 10 km/hex, division size. Varying in length from two weeks to eight weeks.

When WitE was being developed I was asked to contribute to similarly title scenarios (Road to Minsk, Road to Smolensk, Road to Kiev, etc,) in that game. But as I looked into it, each of these scenarios all had the same start date of 22 Jun 41, so to get to the battle for Smolensk you had to battle all the way through the first 10 weeks including the three weeks to reach Minsk. Not bite-size vignettes of East Front history.

Or to get the big East Front picture, there are several that covered all of the fronts, at various scales and time frames.

Not to put down WitE, but a different sort of game.



_____________________________

Avatar image take in hex 87,159 Vol 11 of
Vietnam Combat Operations by Stéphane MOUTIN LUYAT aka Boonierat.

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 14
RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/22/2017 7:34:09 PM   
Searry

 

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Thanks for your replies guys. I'm definitely looking forward to this game.

(in reply to HPT KUNZ)
Post #: 15
RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/23/2017 3:38:20 AM   
Sardaukar


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If you can play WitP-AE...then you can play anything...

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"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Searry)
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RE: Game looks intimidating compared to GGWITE - 7/30/2017 5:45:25 PM   
johnjohnston


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The TOAW series has been far, far easier than WITE.

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Post #: 17
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