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Multiple combat - 7/4/2017 10:19:01 PM   
Guderian1940

 

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Unrestricted multiple attacks are not good.

< Message edited by Guderian1940 -- 7/4/2017 10:22:12 PM >
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RE: Multiple combat - 7/4/2017 10:33:33 PM   
DeriKuk


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Joined: 8/2/2005
From: Alberta
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quote:

There is a serious game flaw, IMHO, with this game were you can attack a unit as many times as needed to destroy it. The ability to focus and kill a unit is reducing the enjoyment of this game. Using military tactics, principles of war is basically irrelevant. Just concentrate and kill a unit in your way. Attacking it 10 or 20 times till it is gone. A unit retreat, well just advance and kill it some more. Worst part is the supply overall not working. Changes have improved but HQ abilities are ?????

I am sad to say that after <6 months and some good changes the basic flaw is the ability to keep attacking till it is dead. It is not working and is getting tiring.

I have played the Napoleonic and ACW games of the Talonsoft/HPS/Tiller games for 20 years and they still are interesting (some changes but still the same basic designs). Matrix sells a version. 6 months and this one is about it. I am still playing them

I think you need to seriously change the number of times a unit can be attacked. You need to change the number of AP's, available, the supply and ability to OP units all over the place without any kind of restrictions is wrong. Weather to change with each turn, is it not the same weather for each player action reaction. A player turn is a simultaneous thing where the 2nd player should respond with the same weather i.e. same time frame. A week in October should be the same for each player. A turn should include both player phases not separate. A turn should include both players not just one then move on to another turn.

I want to thank all those that have I have enjoyed their games. I am moving on. Maybe version 2.05 will interest me again.


+1

< Message edited by hjalmar99 -- 7/4/2017 10:34:41 PM >

(in reply to Guderian1940)
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RE: Multiple combat - 7/5/2017 4:07:04 AM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 7719
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From: east coast, usa
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-1

(in reply to DeriKuk)
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RE: Multiple combat - 7/5/2017 4:25:41 AM   
Icier


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Guderian1940

Unrestricted multiple attacks are not good.


There is merit in what is said....maybe a surrounded unit can be subject to unrestricted multiple attacks.

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(in reply to Guderian1940)
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RE: Multiple combat - 7/5/2017 6:20:48 AM   
Titan

 

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Good points...Unit Destruction in WW2 was rare unless Surrounded, IMO Destroying a unit completly shouldn't be impossible but perhaps a bit harder. Maybe it could retreat easier and take moral losses when it gets to low numbers or routs back 2-3 hexes could help

(in reply to Icier)
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RE: Multiple combat - 7/5/2017 10:25:19 AM   
Bmorgan077

 

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the same goes for subs, It seems I can have a U-boot anywhere in the Atlantic and in a turn the 1st DD moving will run across the sub and then every allied DD can reach and attack it, 5,6,7 times, it won't dive,(maybe once in 6 attacks it will), it won't retreat, just sits there and takes it. That just is not how u boot warfare took place. At the least the chance to dive should go up with every attack.

(in reply to Titan)
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RE: Multiple combat - 7/5/2017 10:42:16 AM   
Yogi the Great


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Also unreal is the ability of a reduced unit to magically bring itself back to full or near full strength in the field. If the ability to kill the unit with multiple attacks is eliminated, also take away the ability to unrealistically increase it's strength.

The game is meant to be abstract, Panzer Corp and Order of battle have some similarities. You have to eliminate or it comes roaring back. Frustrating to even with a cut off unit to reduce it to 1-3 points repeatedly just to see it pop back up to 8-10 each turn.

< Message edited by Yogi the Great -- 7/5/2017 10:45:55 AM >

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RE: Multiple combat - 7/5/2017 12:35:07 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 7719
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: online
But these are parts of the mechanics of this strategic game, they are not 'serious game flaws'. You need to know what ordnance you need to bring to each battle.

The naval stuff I don't get, but I'm not a naval guy, I don't enjoy naval warfare, but that's the game so I learn to deal with it. I did play the old boardgame Wooden Ships and Iron Men, that was fun. Did they ever make a computer version of that ?

(in reply to Yogi the Great)
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RE: Multiple combat - 7/5/2017 12:53:29 PM   
Yogi the Great


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From: Wisconsin
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

I did play the old boardgame Wooden Ships and Iron Men, that was fun. Did they ever make a computer version of that ?


Yes Wooden Ships & Iron Men


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RE: Multiple combat - 7/5/2017 1:26:16 PM   
Bmorgan077

 

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me too, and 287 other board games, AH, SPI, etc. 1st. AH's Battle of the bulge in 1966.
So I know abstract has to be part of most games, what I want to cut down on are the things
in a game that just pi$$ me off and make me rage quit.
the sub thing is one of those for me in this game.

PS. I have had 2 game crashes in latest version. A "left mouse down" and a "mouse error".
both happened in different games and when trying to click on a unit at the top of the map
and it opened one of the menus, that were hidden at the time.

(in reply to Yogi the Great)
Post #: 10
RE: Multiple combat - 7/5/2017 3:33:49 PM   
sPzAbt653


Posts: 7719
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
Status: online
@ Yogi the Great - Thanks for the link. That review makes it sound like the game didn't convert to computer very well

quote:

things in a game that just pi$$ me off and make me rage quit.
the sub thing is one of those for me in this game.

Well, me too. I've been playing with the editor for several months trying to come up with something less piss-off-able for that 653H Mod. I think it is getting close to being posted. Basically, no naval units except subs, and a few DD's, with Maritime Bombers taking up the slack. Maybe if you don't mind playing a mod, you can keep an eye out for that and see if it's any good

(in reply to Yogi the Great)
Post #: 11
RE: Multiple combat - 7/6/2017 3:35:03 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yogi the Great

Also unreal is the ability of a reduced unit to magically bring itself back to full or near full strength in the field. If the ability to kill the unit with multiple attacks is eliminated, also take away the ability to unrealistically increase it's strength.

The game is meant to be abstract, Panzer Corp and Order of battle have some similarities. You have to eliminate or it comes roaring back. Frustrating to even with a cut off unit to reduce it to 1-3 points repeatedly just to see it pop back up to 8-10 each turn.


Hi Yogi

If there is no HQ present then reinforcing to 8-10 is only possible if the unit can receive supply of 6 or more from a Capital, Industrial Center or Primary Supply Center, i.e. only a HQ can enable a cut-off unit to reinforce to 8-10.

If you or anyone else reading this ever encounters a different situation then please do report it in case it is a bug, but in terms of the game rules it shouldn't be that a unit cut-off from the above should be able to reinforce to 8-10.

One thing to bear in mind is that a battered unit that is reinforced will still have low Morale and Readiness and will therefore still be weaker than it might have been. Sometimes it can be weakened in one turn, and is thus riper for the killing blow in the following turn.

Bill

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(in reply to Yogi the Great)
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RE: Multiple combat - 7/7/2017 1:24:17 AM   
Hubert Cater

 

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One other thing to consider for destroyed units is that this is at times a bit of an abstraction as well and simply to indicate the end of any sort of cohesive offensive/defensive capabilities for that particular unit in the field.

For example, this is one reason why units that were destroyed in good supply can be re-purchased at a reduced cost and production time to reflect that a core group or element of that unit survived and could be more quickly reorganized and put back into the field versus a completely green unit starting out from scratch.

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