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RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI

 
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RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/17/2017 6:20:15 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1607
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
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quote:

quote:ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14 quote:warspite1 I just don't understand why you keep repeating this nonsense? Solitaire is working 100%? Allow me to explain: NO.IT.ISN'T. And I am at a total loss here. I don't know why you keep misrepresenting the situation. After the last lot of unpleasantness I have let the last couple of comments along these lines go - but this is just silly. I may be confusing terminology here (solitaire/PBEM), but I am currently playing a bloke in Melbourne exchanging files by e-mail and also using Viber to speed up communications. We are using version 2.3.4. This version has only a few minor bugs and is completely playable and enjoyable. We are about to finish 1942 and having a lot of fun. warspite1 Well that's good to hear. Orm and I have started a game of Barbarossa using the latest beta and so far we have supply issues, reinforcement issues and interface issues - and that's on turn 1. These are at least present in Barbarossa, but probably elsewhere to. I am aware of other issues too. And let's not start on convoys. I am not raising all this to pile onto Steve (we are where we are) - its just bloody infuriating to be told everything is fine and that solitaire players have no right to ask for a stable version.....





We found the sweet spot being version 2.3.4 and have resisted upgrading until we see/notice reports of newer versions better than or as good as 2.3.4

I recommend to fall back to version 2.3.4 (if possible) and enjoy MWiF once again.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 31
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/17/2017 6:28:00 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 32318
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

quote:

quote:ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14 quote:warspite1 I just don't understand why you keep repeating this nonsense? Solitaire is working 100%? Allow me to explain: NO.IT.ISN'T. And I am at a total loss here. I don't know why you keep misrepresenting the situation. After the last lot of unpleasantness I have let the last couple of comments along these lines go - but this is just silly. I may be confusing terminology here (solitaire/PBEM), but I am currently playing a bloke in Melbourne exchanging files by e-mail and also using Viber to speed up communications. We are using version 2.3.4. This version has only a few minor bugs and is completely playable and enjoyable. We are about to finish 1942 and having a lot of fun. warspite1 Well that's good to hear. Orm and I have started a game of Barbarossa using the latest beta and so far we have supply issues, reinforcement issues and interface issues - and that's on turn 1. These are at least present in Barbarossa, but probably elsewhere to. I am aware of other issues too. And let's not start on convoys. I am not raising all this to pile onto Steve (we are where we are) - its just bloody infuriating to be told everything is fine and that solitaire players have no right to ask for a stable version.....





We found the sweet spot being version 2.3.4 and have resisted upgrading until we see/notice reports of newer versions better than or as good as 2.3.4

I recommend to fall back to version 2.3.4 (if possible) and enjoy MWiF once again.
warspite1

2.3.4 was the best we've had - but sadly the convoy problems (amongst many others) were still game wrecking. If the game is to move on then these need fixing - so no, there will be no going back to 2.3.4. But that is just personal choice.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty.
Horatio Nelson - October 1805



(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 32
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/18/2017 8:16:11 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 1638
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 4personalbusiness

It's also possible to make mistakes in face-to-face games. Why are mistakes made while playing VASSAL worse than mistakes made while playing with the cardboard game?


Basically they are the same, there are small differences like you cannot check the stacks so easily and may leave some surprises unseen in the Vassal system, but the worse is that while if I make a mistake (and I make more than average) my mates can see that I am moving a unit in excess of it's movement rate in this climate and land, in front of their face and it's much easier for them to spot them and avoid us both an unfair advantage or a messy composure some impulses later when we realize.

I believe this is more difficult in Vassal. Vassal is a tool for those who are: gentlemen + knowledgeable + very careful. And i believe if any of these are not 100% it can be better cardboard.

(in reply to 4personalbusiness)
Post #: 33
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/18/2017 8:31:23 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 1638
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tom730

Have you posted for opponents? There is a player who posts here quite a bit who lives in Spain. He seems to really love the game and his posts are always insightful! I know Spain is a big country but if he lives in Madrid you could be in for some great gaming! He also has mentioned playing with someone and about optional rules they have used. I'll try to locate him and give you his screen name!


So far found "Juntoalmar" who lives in Valencia (nice place for a short vacation!) and he has this bog - (my humble blog about wargames, in spanish) http://cabezadepuente.blogspot.com.es/

He's not the one I was thinking of and when I have time I'll look again. In the meantime, why not post for opponents in Spain? Best of luck! One of the wonderful things about this game is that it is truly a "world" game, and not just an Australian game!


Well, to be true, I know a number of wif gamers in Madrid. We are fortunate that there is a "colony" here, due to the size of the city, which is not small, and to a higher percentage of wargamers here, it seems. You can find wif games going on in many gamers clubs and you can contact people who plays with friends but shares and asks for partners in places like BSK http://labsk.net/ (surprising name isn't it?)... British Society for Knowledge...

Juntoalmar lives in another city and he had a couple of other games going on. He was also involved in two other games and by now besides he is facing new challenges at work. It's not impossible to play when he is ready though. I read his blog, which I recommend as well.

Anyway I was not calling for someone to play, I was just stating that the game maybe better (perfect is a big word) for solitaire, but it doesn't work well (by itself) in any other version. And, after so many years, this is a big disappointment.

I didn't have so many hopes in CWIF, I wasn't in it's development program , but in MWIF we paid for it, and it was supposed to have a working netPlay option. It didn't but it seemed it would soon be functional. Well, nope, here we are 3, 4 years? afterwards and we cannot play. Not only this, but some of us cannot even deploy. Not only this but instead of going forward we need to go back and patch things that used to work well instead of going on.

Disappointment is a little word to define it.

(in reply to tom730)
Post #: 34
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/18/2017 8:46:06 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 1638
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From: Madrid, Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

quote:

Yes, a legitimate government sympathizer, Also it helps I am mostly leftist although open to other inputs, but never fascist.


How about a sympathizer of a very weak minority government that arrests/assassinates its political opponents?



If you can find any government in the history of Spain (or many other countries) in which there had been no killings, specially in those convulse times, there is a prize for you.

Most of the violence you may be referring to was not a matter of the government, the government didn't instigate it, there was a economic war owners/workers, and strikes and picketers, and the owners contracted killers to eliminate labour union leaders, the answer being anarchist gunmen.

What could be discussed would be the grade of force the government should have used against the miners (armed with guns and dynamite), whether the use of the army and what came later was appropriate.

This could be discussed but I don't think this is the forum. But IMO it's clear that it was much more legitimate a weak government facing almost a revolution, than a Coup by a band of fascists.

And if somebody thinks that the fascists were legitimate because they would bring "order", he only needs to see the tens or hundreds of thousands killed jailed or dissapeared, plus the social and labour persecution of the loyal to the Republic, to the point of starve to death, which are unaccounted for... Or those who had to fight in the USSR with the Nazis (Blue Division) to wash the "stains" on them and their families so that they could have some bread and water ( no more) and survive.

Or you may be referring to the "Checas" that uncontrolled partisans, not fighted enough by he republican government, made against fascists or suspects. But this was already in a a war situation, after July 18th, and this "depurations" have happened sadly in many countries at war, and of course much more in the fascist side. People were shot by groups of ten, not sporadically like in the republican area. And not because being suspects of spionage or terrorism but for being democrats or comunists.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 7/18/2017 2:07:06 PM >

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 35
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/18/2017 11:50:15 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1607
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline
Joseignacio:
quote:

Most of the violence you may be referring to was not a matter of the government, the government didn't instigate it, there was a economic war owners/workers, and strikes and picketers, and the owners contracted killers to eliminate labour union leaders, the answer being anarchist gunmen.


I really am not well versed in the Spanish Civil War other than in my gaming group we have a Spanish gamer who knows a lot about it and frequently discusses it with us. Ask me about Visogothic Spain

Specifically, I was referring to the actions of the government created Assault Guards. There was a lot of back and forth on both sides for quite a while.

The Facists, while ultimately taking control with Franco as the leader after the civil war, were one member of a broad coalition before the civil war started including monarchists, Catholics, etc...

I find Fascists repugnant and part of my family in Germany suffered under them, but in my opinion the Communists are at least equally as bad and should be equally condemned with the Fascists.

Concerning the Blue Division, I am sure there were "volunteers" as well as volunteers. However what percentage of the Blue Division were made up of those that felt forced into it?...probably it was tiny.

Something I never understood about "Anarchists". How can people rationalize their support for government control (or more of it...bigger government) also call themselves something that means no government?



< Message edited by Jagdtiger14 -- 7/18/2017 11:55:09 PM >


_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Joseignacio)
Post #: 36
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/19/2017 12:35:49 AM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 167
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseignacio

I can not say I had any fun with it, since only the solitaire is really working 100% and I don't like the alternative solutions for PBEM or playing MP with external programs.

I have enjoyed the excitement of a promise, with easier deployments, and a promise of an outstanding game taken to the computer but.

Fun = 0, for me. I have not been able to play an only game, not even a short scenario, with anybody else or an AI.


These days I thought about how the history of MWIF is, to me, quite simple.

In September, 2013 I was vacationing in Paris with my wife and my two daughters. A vacation in Paris means shopping, and not only for the girls - so, the family was surprised when they saw that I was being "stingy" (there are shops in the Latin Quarter where you can still buy original vinyl LPs for a bunch of peanuts, for example). I confessed that I was saving money for "a game I wanted to buy".

"Here in Paris? A boardgame?"

"Er...no... A computer wargame... But it is based on a wonderful tabletop game! And the manuals are fantastic!"

The women scoffed with pity. My aura of leadership as "the head of the family" never recovered.

The irony? When the manuals arrived, back in 2013, my wife (who is totally uninterested in games, even card games) browsed them and said "You know? They are really beautiful books!" They are now proudly displayed on a shelf - gathering dust.

Cut to: July, 2017. I'm back in Paris with my wife - our first vacation alone since my eldest daughter was born, back in 1997.

Every then and now I do a forlorn check of this forum, to see how MWIF's testing is going. I think that we reached about late alpha - since 2015 (sure, they added a lot of things - usually by having your fleets sinking as soon as they leave port; but usually this is mercifully fixed in the next beta, the one which breaks definitely and once for all the convoy system, and so on).

Meanwhile I bought the real game, built a gaming room in my new house (because, in the meanwhile, I also bought a whole new house), and played two campaigns with my friends: one to learn the rules (but some of them were already adept) and the other currently ongoing (May, 1941, IIRC).

Now I and my wife are enjoying a relaxing vacation. We just walk around Paris, enjoying the sights and stopping every time we see an interesting shop (pro-tip: never go for Louis Vitton when you are in Paris; scourge around, avoid the obvious "tourist traps" and you will find wonderful vintage shops full of wonderful goodies).

Of course our next stop will be the Latin Quarter: and I can assure you of one thing - this time the savings will go to old vinyl.

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to Joseignacio)
Post #: 37
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/19/2017 2:04:39 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 6921
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
I hope the party the girls are hosting while you are away does not overflow into your game room.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to RFalvo69)
Post #: 38
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/19/2017 6:04:28 AM   
juntoalmar


Posts: 401
Joined: 9/29/2013
From: Valencia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I find Fascists repugnant and part of my family in Germany suffered under them, but in my opinion the Communists are at least equally as bad and should be equally condemned with the Fascists.

Something I never understood about "Anarchists". How can people rationalize their support for government control (or more of it...bigger government) also call themselves something that means no government?



I would humble suggest to move such matters to a different thread where it can be properly addressed without the risk of kidnapping this (and being blocked).

_____________________________

(my humble blog about wargames, in spanish) http://cabezadepuente.blogspot.com.es/

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 39
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/19/2017 7:05:55 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 1638
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: juntoalmar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I find Fascists repugnant and part of my family in Germany suffered under them, but in my opinion the Communists are at least equally as bad and should be equally condemned with the Fascists.

Something I never understood about "Anarchists". How can people rationalize their support for government control (or more of it...bigger government) also call themselves something that means no government?



I would humble suggest to move such matters to a different thread where it can be properly addressed without the risk of kidnapping this (and being blocked).


Sure, ok.

(in reply to juntoalmar)
Post #: 40
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/20/2017 2:03:27 PM   
wodin


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Hmmm..not sure I can have sympathy about spending that money on this game when it's common knowledge it has no AI and wont have for the foreseeable future..one reason why I've stayed away.

What was your reasoning when buying this game? If you bought it when it first came out then yes I can see where you are coming from. Still it's overall development history must have given warning bells about when an AI would finally appear...?

_____________________________


(in reply to Joseignacio)
Post #: 41
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/20/2017 7:46:36 PM   
pzgndr

 

Posts: 2233
Joined: 3/18/2004
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
Hmmm..not sure I can have sympathy about spending that money on this game when it's common knowledge it has no AI and wont have for the foreseeable future..one reason why I've stayed away.
What was your reasoning when buying this game? If you bought it when it first came out then yes I can see where you are coming from. Still it's overall development history must have given warning bells about when an AI would finally appear...?


I bought it when it came out knowing full well it did not have AI, or the half map scenarios, or all of the optional rules, and probably many bugs to work through (but didn't expect it to take this long). I saw it as supporting development of a game I wanted to play.

It was useful for getting started, for learning the rules, and getting used to the game mechanics. But I really do not want to play the global game, just the ETO scenario. So I continue to patiently wait. I am still looking forward to the ETO half-map scenario and solitaire play while I continue to wait for AI.

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 42
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/20/2017 8:10:11 PM   
76mm


Posts: 2920
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From: Berlin
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr
But I really do not want to play the global game, just the ETO scenario. So I continue to patiently wait. I am still looking forward to the ETO half-map scenario and solitaire play while I continue to wait for AI.


I also bought the game upon release for the half map scenarios, which would supposedly be released "soon". Four years later, no sign of them. Sorry, that's really pathetic (I guess I'm not as patient as pzgndr). Never again...

(in reply to pzgndr)
Post #: 43
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/20/2017 8:22:45 PM   
RFalvo69


Posts: 167
Joined: 7/11/2013
From: Lamezia Terme (Italy)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

I hope the party the girls are hosting while you are away does not overflow into your game room.


LOL! Knowing my daughters, they took pictures of everything, down to the counters on the map - so to be able to clean up and claim "plausible denial" when we are back

_____________________________

"Yes darling, I served in the Navy for eight years. I was a cook..."
"Oh dad... so you were a God-damned cook?"

(My 10 years old daughter after watching "The Hunt for Red October")

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 44
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/21/2017 1:34:58 AM   
paulderynck


Posts: 6921
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
I did that once - when our entire basement flooded! I stood in two inches of water making sure the entire game was recorded before taking it all down... and I had to get that done before the remediation people arrived.

We played it on Vassal for about nine months before all the renovations were completed. Transferring it back to the board was much easier as I had a laptop and a tablet for us to work from.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to RFalvo69)
Post #: 45
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/21/2017 7:41:08 AM   
Joseignacio


Posts: 1638
Joined: 5/8/2009
From: Madrid, Spain
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Hmmm..not sure I can have sympathy about spending that money on this game when it's common knowledge it has no AI and wont have for the foreseeable future..one reason why I've stayed away.

What was your reasoning when buying this game? If you bought it when it first came out then yes I can see where you are coming from. Still it's overall development history must have given warning bells about when an AI would finally appear...?


For me, AI was probably the most important feature that I wanted with the game but in my case it was closely followed by Netplay, I like to play wif with my friends and this would solve many distance limitations.

I knew there would be no AI for a couple of years maybe, but with the experience previous to the release of MWIF I thought of 5 years, so I was no deceived about it.

The problem is that the game didn't have a functional NetPlay, and it was supposed to have it when it was released; it doesn't have it even now, and no trace of soon having it the way it all is evolving.

The rest of the scenarios, the optionals, ..., fuuuuuu that maybe as far as the moon.

< Message edited by Joseignacio -- 7/21/2017 12:25:52 PM >

(in reply to wodin)
Post #: 46
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/21/2017 12:00:07 PM   
juntoalmar


Posts: 401
Joined: 9/29/2013
From: Valencia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


2.3.4 was the best we've had - but sadly the convoy problems (amongst many others) were still game wrecking. If the game is to move on then these need fixing - so no, there will be no going back to 2.3.4. But that is just personal choice.



I think I have installed 2.2.8 and from the members you can only find 2.5.1. Is there a way to download the patch for 2.3.4?

Thanks!

_____________________________

(my humble blog about wargames, in spanish) http://cabezadepuente.blogspot.com.es/

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 47
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/21/2017 5:30:05 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 6921
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline
You could check by entering the Members Club, and seeing what downloads are listed as available for World in Flames.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to juntoalmar)
Post #: 48
RE: Sorry I invested $100 for a Game with No AI - 7/21/2017 6:40:00 PM   
davidachamberlain

 

Posts: 140
Joined: 1/21/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: paulderynck

You could check by entering the Members Club, and seeing what downloads are listed as available for World in Flames.

Only 2.5.1.0 is there.

Some of the emails that are posted with the updates do have the attachments. In particular those from Steve with the Hot patches.

Dave

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 49
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