Port Damage

[Beria]

How does damage affect ports?

My guess from the manual is that if the port has more than 50% damage, or if it passes a die roll if damage is between 1% and 49%, in effect it is like there was no port there?

This means no units can be transported in or out by sea, and it cannot act as a supply source?

If as Axis I take a port which leaves a group of Soviet units isolated or in beachhead supply what happens if they recapture the port the following turn? Do the units remain isolated because the damage to the port is high, or can it be used as a supply source because they are retaking their own port?

[thedude357]

You have to knock the port to below level 1 from what I remember reading to stop its usage entirely. It depends on the port level. Other than that I don't think it has any effect?

Port level 1 = any dmg would shut it down.
Port Level 2 = 51% dmg would shut it down.
Port Level 3 = 67% dmg would shut it down.
Port Level 4 = 76% dmg would shut it down.
Port Level 5 = 81% dmg would shut it down.

Dont even bother with Sevastopol.

It takes many...many turns normally of level bombing. I was able to isolate northern Leningrad area by bombing ports on Lake Lagoda one time, mainly by bombing the one slightly northeast of Leningrad.

Someone Correct me if I am wrong.

[Beria]

Ah thank you so much thedude357!

I was looking at Odessa which from looking at the details I guess is Port Level 15 - is that correct? Or if not where do I find the level of the port? What do you mean by knocking down the port level - is that different from increasing damage?

In my case it is a question of capturing and recapturing a port. The damage is 99% after I captured it from the Soviets - will it remain at close to 99% for the Soviets if they recapture it. And at that level will it be unavailable as a supply source? I guess from what you are saying yes Odessa will be a Soviet supply head for previously isolated units as it cannot be shut down by damage?

[thedude357]

It can shut down by damage, but I think I was misreading your post as to bombing. Sevastopol is port level 15 I think, it just requires high dmg to be inoperable. I think above 96%. If Soviets re-capture a port, it will remain at 99% dmg, and then continue to repair at 3% a turn thereafter from what I recall.

[gmtello]

Sevastopol needs 96 per cent damage to close

[VigaBrand]

What need a port level 10 to be shut down? (Ochako in the South)

[morvael]

91+?

[Seminole]

Do I understand correctly that an ice choked port like Oranienbaum will function as a supply source (Axis or Soviet) even if there is no naval or amphib movement allowed from the hex?

[xhoel]

How can Oranienbaum be ice choked? If you wanna go into detail you can PM me and I'll try to help. I have been dealing a bit with ports lately.

[Seminole]

I just submitted my turn or I'd show with a screenshot, but I'm referring to the ice graphic spreading over the Baltic from Leningrad during the winter.
I find reference to ice on Lake Ladoga, and how it affects supply, but not what is happening when ice moves over the Baltic ports.
For some reason I couldn't engage in naval or amphib movement from Leningrad, I assumed because the port was iced over.
In my case I had cut the Axis railroad crossing the Narva, but noticed the distance to railhead for the Germans laying siege to Leningrad was far too short. I realized that railhead was being counted from the port!
I think my only option is destroying the port.
Not sure how to optimize air attacks to this end. Much better with the WitW air war engine.

[Seminole]

Found a turn 25 screenshot that includes the weather overlay (I usually turn it off in blizzard for terrain clarity).

[EwaldvonKleist]

AFAIK it blocks unit movement but not supply.

[xhoel]

@Seminole: The problem lies somewhere else. From the manual, section 22.1.1.1 Ice Levels and Movement Costs: it states that: "movement and supply trace over full water hexes is not affected by ice levels" and "strategic naval transport or amphibious transport is not affected by ice levels."

You cannot conduct naval transport from Leningrad because you have no friendly ports in the Baltic. Naval Transport requires you to have a receiving friendly port. You cannot conduct amphibious transport because the Soviet do not have Amphibious operation capabilities in the Baltic, this is reserved only for the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. See manual section 14.2.3.2 Naval Transport and Amphibious Capacity for more clarity on the matter.

Don't even bother with air attacks. Oranienbaum is a level 5 port IIRC, it needs 81% damage to get shut down. The war will be over by the time you reach that kind of damage level.

Cheers!

[Telemecus]

My reading of Seminole is that he gave the picture above to show what the iced sea looks like, but while it is quite right there they have no other port they are refering to another turn in a game when they do?

Without knowing why but I certainly find as Axis you can transport units from Talinn to Leningrad say when there is no ice blocking Leningrad. But when there is ice on the way to Leningrad you can no longer transport by sea units from Talinn to Leningrad?

[Seminole]

You cannot conduct amphibious transport because the Soviet do not have Amphibious operation capabilities in the Baltic, this is reserved only for the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. See manual section 14.2.3.2 Naval Transport and Amphibious Capacity for more clarity on the matter.

Are you sure about that? The interface indicates there are valid landing spots from the Leningrad port:



When I try from Sevastopol I see the movement chain across the water, but if I try from an icebound port in the south the interface matches what I'm seeing in Leningrad.

It appears that the ice does block movement (naval and amphib), but not port supply.
Seems like a bug, or possibly just an oversight.

Don't even bother with air attacks. Oranienbaum is a level 5 port IIRC, it needs 81% damage to get shut down. The war will be over by the time you reach that kind of damage level.

That kind of defeatism may find its cure in re-education camp, comrade!
Imagine I wasn't so pessimistic and had found a way to get the port damage to 99%.
What's the best method for the Red Air Force to maintain the sufficient level of damage to not allow the port to re-open?
My understanding is that it repairs 3% per turn and 10% prior to the logistics phase, so I need to keep up ~13% damage per turn to keep it from becoming operational.
How best to achieve that?

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Seminole
My understanding is that it repairs 3% per turn and 10% prior to the logistics phase, so I need to keep up ~13% damage per turn to keep it from becoming operational.
How best to achieve that?

Port repairs 3% per whole turn - 3% during logistics and at no other phase. So if you increase damage by more than 3% per turn with bombing you will be gaining on the 3% repair every turn.

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

You cannot conduct amphibious transport because the Soviet do not have Amphibious operation capabilities in the Baltic, this is reserved only for the Black Sea and the Sea of Azov. See manual section 14.2.3.2 Naval Transport and Amphibious Capacity for more clarity on the matter.

Are you sure about that? The interface indicates there are valid landing spots from the Leningrad port:

Hover in a sea hex to find your sea capacities - in Black sea you should have both transport and amphibious capacities. But in seas other than Black sea while you will see some transport capacity the amphibious is set to zero. Even though you have places to land - you have no amphibious capacity to land there.

[Seminole]

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
Port repairs 3% per whole turn - 3% during logistics and at no other phase. So if you increase damage by more than 3% per turn with bombing you will be gaining on the 3% repair every turn.

I'm confused by this part:

20.4.1.2

"If the effective port value is reduced to less than one due to damage, then supplies may not be sent through that port. However, the port damage is reduced by 10% before the supply phase and only the smallest ports would have a value less than one after the 10% reduction in damage."

[Telemecus]

ORIGINAL: Seminole

ORIGINAL: Telemecus
Port repairs 3% per whole turn - 3% during logistics and at no other phase. So if you increase damage by more than 3% per turn with bombing you will be gaining on the 3% repair every turn.

I'm confused by this part:

20.4.1.2

"If the effective port value is reduced to less than one due to damage, then supplies may not be sent through that port. However, the port damage is reduced by 10% before the supply phase and only the smallest ports would have a value less than one after the 10% reduction in damage."

Here they are not talking about how ports repair but the thresholds for supply. Perhaps adding the word "if" to the sentence would make it clearer? Perhaps it should be "However IF port damage is reduced TO 10% before the supply phase..."

I am not too sure about the conditions for supply in ports always, but absolutely sure they only repair 3% per turn/

Perhaps an amendment suggestion that should be posted in the amended manual?

[xhoel]

Are you sure about that? The interface indicates there are valid landing spots from the Leningrad port:

Yes, I am sure about that, because you don't have amphibious capabilities.

It appears that the ice does block movement (naval and amphib), but not port supply. Seems like a bug, or possibly just an oversight.

I would have assumed that was not the case, at least according to the manual. But if your tests show that this is the case, then I am sure this is a bug and you should report it to the devs.

That kind of defeatism may find its cure in re-education camp, comrade! Imagine I wasn't so pessimistic and had found a way to get the port damage to 99%.

There is a big difference between being a realist and a defeatist. Unless you have a magic trick up your sleeve, you can forget about that. And while we are on the matter, what are you hoping to achieve with this move? You won't isolate the Germans, unless they have no other rail lines in the vicinity and their railhead is way further south.

Once you see how little damage strat. bombing inflicts on a target the defeatism will set in [;)]

What's the best method for the Red Air Force to maintain the sufficient level of damage to not allow the port to re-open?
My understanding is that it repairs 3% per turn and 10% prior to the logistics phase, so I need to keep up ~13% damage per turn to keep it from becoming operational.

I don't know where you got the numbers from. Ports repair at 3% a turn. As long as you keep the damage over 3%/turn you will be making progress (albeit very very slow progress). However considering that you can only conduct 2 air attacks on a hex and considering that air groups are terrible at damaging ports (strat. bombing has been nerfed IIRC), you will at best see damage at 5% per turn. After repairs that will drop to 2%. To reach 81% damage you will need around 40 turns or around 10 months.

WitE is very different to WitW in terms of strat. bombing. In WitW you can damage a port to 80%+ in a turn, in WitE that is impossible. With that being said, Tele can give you more tips on the bombing of ports. I personally would advise you against it.

Cheers!