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AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens?

 
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AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 5/31/2017 1:04:06 PM   
Gunner98


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From: The Great White North!
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There was a question on the Command Live vs. Chains of War thread

"can we get upgraded scenarios with aircraft damage enabled?"
I think the question is valid for the Community produced scenarios as well. Can't happen for all as some designers have dropped off or would have no interest but - from a community point of view, should we update scenarios to CoW standard?

Advantages:
- better modeling and brings play balance up to date
- prevents the scenario from going stagnant and becoming ignored

Disadvantages:
- more work on old scenarios means less work on new ones
- not everyone has or will have CoW so it might limit usability

I have my own thoughts but would be interested in what the community would like to see?

Don't think designers should be bound by the results of this thread but curious on the opinions out there.

B
Post #: 1
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 5/31/2017 2:24:40 PM   
Randomizer

 

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I have updated and uploaded three of my older Community scenarios to enable aircraft damage since all are aviation oriented. That said, the almost total lack of interest, expressed as downloads, means that I'm unlikely to bother uploading any more updates or scenarios period. Of course there's a possibility that they're just crappy scenarios, particularly when compared to the quality of the DLC scenarios thus far.

Everybody gets the editor to use and everybody can perform deep-rebuilds of community scenarios to add aircraft damage for their own use as they like. I had originally thought that upgrading and uploading one's community scenarios would be a good idea but no longer.

-C

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 2
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 5/31/2017 2:39:33 PM   
Stalintc


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I see that it is a major ask for scenario creators to update all of their scenarios every time there is a new feature that needs it. Especially if there are many of them. Of course I think most of us would be grateful for any which are updated by the scenario designer.

I think it might help with scenarios overall to warn if there are any custom loadouts for example within the scenario which might become broken by a deep rebuild. Or even for Command to provide a flag for designers to set on a scenario which warns that it may be broken by an upgrade.

Of course I use the word "May" simply because how is one supposed to know if any future upgrade or database update might kill a scenario.

< Message edited by Stalintc -- 5/31/2017 2:58:59 PM >


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Post #: 3
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 5/31/2017 2:46:55 PM   
kevinkin


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Advantages:
- better modeling and brings play balance up to date
- prevents the scenario from going stagnant and becoming ignored

Disadvantages:
- more work on old scenarios means less work on new ones
- not everyone has or will have CoW so it might limit usability


Will the designer need to have 2 separate files for their community pack scenarios i.e. one CoW enabled and the other left alone? If we knew the percent of users having CoW capabilities designers can make an informed decision on whether to upgrade their work. Not sure this can be answered directly since it involves sales figures. Does simply upgrading mean the scenario has to be re-tested to any degree?

Kevin


(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 4
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 5/31/2017 2:57:31 PM   
Kaldadarnes


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From: Berkshire, UK
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Which scenarios are they...

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Post #: 5
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 5/31/2017 4:36:19 PM   
bradinggs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Advantages:
- better modeling and brings play balance up to date
- prevents the scenario from going stagnant and becoming ignored

Disadvantages:
- more work on old scenarios means less work on new ones
- not everyone has or will have CoW so it might limit usability


Will the designer need to have 2 separate files for their community pack scenarios i.e. one CoW enabled and the other left alone? If we knew the percent of users having CoW capabilities designers can make an informed decision on whether to upgrade their work. Not sure this can be answered directly since it involves sales figures. Does simply upgrading mean the scenario has to be re-tested to any degree?

Kevin




Been wondering the same, don't know which to rather focus on, CoW or non-CoW builds. If less own CoW then less would play the scenario. Interested in any answer for your questions above too.

(in reply to kevinkin)
Post #: 6
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 5/31/2017 5:02:06 PM   
Owllord


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From: Tokyo, Japan
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Personally I think going forward focusing on CoW-feature enabled scenarios makes more sense, as the adaption rate at the core of the community will be almost universal eventually, judging from the Discord where I have yet to hear from anybody that they do not have CoW and do not plan on purchasing it.

< Message edited by Owllord -- 5/31/2017 5:04:54 PM >

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Post #: 7
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 5/31/2017 11:57:48 PM   
cns180784

 

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From what i've gathered if you want to enable an older scenario to include a/c damage modelling all you need to do is a deep rebuild to the latest DB right? if so it takes 2 seconds.

For the creator of any scenario especially if they've made tens or more to have to deep rebuild all of these will take time for them that they shouldnt need to do. They gave us the scenarios to enjoy in the first place so we can just rebuild them ourselves. As i said takes 2 seconds.

< Message edited by cns180784 -- 6/1/2017 12:02:29 AM >

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Post #: 8
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 6/1/2017 12:03:19 AM   
mavfin

 

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That's true for probably 95% or more of Scenarios...

Then there's ones like Facing the Dragon...the single version on Steam (DB429 DB3000) will work fine, but if you rebuilt it to current, you'll have to do some a/c replacement work and some other things.

OTOH, I've already rebuilt some older scens and played them with a/c damage turned on.

Uncle Mark's British Jets over Uganda (name is close, but not quite right!) was an interesting testing ground!

Mav


(in reply to cns180784)
Post #: 9
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 6/1/2017 1:15:40 AM   
kevinkin


Posts: 1043
Joined: 3/8/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cns180784

From what i've gathered if you want to enable an older scenario to include a/c damage modelling all you need to do is a deep rebuild to the latest DB right? if so it takes 2 seconds.

For the creator of any scenario especially if they've made tens or more to have to deep rebuild all of these will take time for them that they shouldnt need to do. They gave us the scenarios to enjoy in the first place so we can just rebuild them ourselves. As i said takes 2 seconds.


I am not sure what is meant by a "deep re-build" nor how a new or experienced designer can insure within "2 seconds" that the process (if one even exists) produces a new quality scenario within the intent of the original design. There has been no direction from the "top" on this.

You can rebuild old scenarios, but do not complain about the results achieved and never re-post them without the original designer's consent. If you can not contact them - do not post their modified work.

This thread is dealing with some very important open questions re: the launch of CoW. Keep the thoughts coming.

Respectfully.

Kevin

(in reply to cns180784)
Post #: 10
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 6/1/2017 2:34:09 AM   
cns180784

 

Posts: 440
Joined: 7/31/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kevinkin

quote:

ORIGINAL: cns180784

From what i've gathered if you want to enable an older scenario to include a/c damage modelling all you need to do is a deep rebuild to the latest DB right? if so it takes 2 seconds.

For the creator of any scenario especially if they've made tens or more to have to deep rebuild all of these will take time for them that they shouldnt need to do. They gave us the scenarios to enjoy in the first place so we can just rebuild them ourselves. As i said takes 2 seconds.


I am not sure what is meant by a "deep re-build" nor how a new or experienced designer can insure within "2 seconds" that the process (if one even exists) produces a new quality scenario within the intent of the original design. There has been no direction from the "top" on this.

You can rebuild old scenarios, but do not complain about the results achieved and never re-post them without the original designer's consent. If you can not contact them - do not post their modified work.

This thread is dealing with some very important open questions re: the launch of CoW. Keep the thoughts coming.

Respectfully.

Kevin


Ok so i wasnt sure which is why i asked. I just thought you load the scenario in editor mode and change the DB to the most recent and then enable a/c damage modelling in the realism options.

(in reply to kevinkin)
Post #: 11
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 6/1/2017 12:18:01 PM   
Jorm


Posts: 517
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Melbourne
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Randomizer

I have updated and uploaded three of my older Community scenarios to enable aircraft damage since all are aviation oriented. That said, the almost total lack of interest, expressed as downloads, means that I'm unlikely to bother uploading any more updates or scenarios period. Of course there's a possibility that they're just crappy scenarios, particularly when compared to the quality of the DLC scenarios thus far.

Everybody gets the editor to use and everybody can perform deep-rebuilds of community scenarios to add aircraft damage for their own use as they like. I had originally thought that upgrading and uploading one's community scenarios would be a good idea but no longer.

-C


Hey Randomizer, dont be disheartened, i get the same seeming lack of interest for my meagre submissions as well. I think the forum here is only a small subset of those who play the community scenarios and the feedback here is very positive and well thought out.

so i reckon you should keep at it !!!

(in reply to Randomizer)
Post #: 12
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 6/1/2017 12:26:01 PM   
apache85

 

Posts: 804
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From: Melbourne, Australia
Status: offline
Ok seemingly there is a misunderstanding here.

Rebuilding a scenario entails 4-5 clicks of the mouse and does not infringe at all on anyone's IP. it is covered on pages 79-90 of the manual included with the game, please look it up.

< Message edited by apache85 -- 6/1/2017 12:31:28 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 6/1/2017 12:35:41 PM   
Gunner98


Posts: 3012
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline
Rebuilding is one thing - and its quick.

Re-balancing is another - and its not.

Thanks for all your comments, thoughtful and helpful. Keep em coming.

B

(in reply to apache85)
Post #: 14
RE: AC Damage etc in Older Community Scens? - 6/1/2017 3:06:20 PM   
AlGrant


Posts: 544
Joined: 8/18/2015
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Rebuilding is one thing - and its quick.
Re-balancing is another - and its not.
Thanks for all your comments, thoughtful and helpful. Keep em coming.

B


From a personal point of view, I'd be less inclined to re-play an older scenario (that I may have played a a few times) that has been rebuilt & re-balanced and be more likely to play a fresh scenario built around the new features.

That said, there is still absolutely nothing wrong with older scenarios that don't include the new features!
They still play as well as they ever did (perhaps better with speed & AI improvements), they will still present the player with the same challenge and can be enjoyed by those with or without the new features.




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