What to do with S-type short range subs in Pearl?

[Timotheus]

I have some S-type subs in Pearl (I think I got them there from USA coast)...

What to do with them?

They don't have range to patrol close to Japan, when I make their home port as Soereabaja or Cairns.... they show up as red i.e. not enough fuel warning.

Do I make Dutch Harbor into a sub base?

In that case, what port size do I need to load torpedoes into subs? And, if I go Dutch (heheheheh, sorry), will there be enough range for S-type subs to get to coast of Japan and patrol?

[pontiouspilot]

There is something screwy with your settings if you can't set them up in forward base. Make sure home port reset. Make sure your patrol zone not too long. These, and the Dutchmen are only decent subs until '43 so don't leave them at home.

[MakeeLearn]

I use some of them as "anti-sub" subs around the California Ports.

Some I use around my forward bases and rear bases... Keep them around the forward bases and combat areas.

[kbfchicago]

+1 Makeelearn. I use the short range US subs as "defensive" subs. Creating an outpost of patrol zones around Midway, Johnson Island and West Coast. Many also withdraw, so be watchful as if left in Pearl you'll need to get them back to San Fran in time or pay a penalty.

There are short range Dutch subs as well. In my games those usually migrate down to North and West Australia as the DEI folds up under the IJN.

Happy gaming,

Kevin

[GetAssista]

I'd use them off Australia and in Solomons/NG, with or without supporting AS. No need for long voyages there

[BBfanboy]

For all subs, check the leader stats before sending them out. Some of those guys couldn't operate a canoe! Others know very well how to operate a boat but don't want to deal with any dents or scratches ...

EDIT: ... or soiled underwear!

[Chris21wen]

I use them as defensive patrols outside of Allied Naval search range.

[HansBolter]

Adak is your best port for turning into a sub base for operating S boats in Japanese islands waters.
Put an AS in it with an AR and 3k capacity ARD.

Instant sub base for short legged boat operations in HI waters.

[Chickenboy]

The Mk. 10 is quite valuable for you until at least September 1942. The "pig boats" are very helpful in the DEI, Philippines and SoPac waters and need not / should not be relegated to defensive patrols in the home waters.

[btd64]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

The Mk. 10 is quite valuable for you until at least September 1942. The "pig boats" are very helpful in the DEI, Philippines and SoPac waters and need not / should not be relegated to defensive patrols in the home waters.

Plus 1. Never leave a good asset patrolling friendly waters....GP

[Shark7]

Basically any time I play as allies, I have 2 uses for subs early game, depending on their torpedoes.

Now granted I am very rusty since I have not played a PBEM in a long time, but from my memory, these are the things I've done.

The good torpedo subs I send to the SRA where you are sure to find a lot of tankers and merchant ships, which are the most valuable targets in the long run.

The other boats with bad torpedoes are really best used to ferry troops or supplies until the torpedoes are fixed. They can move a decent amount of supplies 36-48 for most of the subs, and are not so easy to intercept, unlike your AKs would be. Meaning you might just be able to hold the places you need to hold a short bit longer. Delay for the IJN player is always bad.

And as a mostly IJN player, I can tell you this. As the Allies place your sub patrols where they do not go into shallow water. For the first year of the game, the IJN basically doesn't have any depth charges that can drop deep enough to hit your subs in deep water, meaning they can't damage your subs. The Type 95 DC simply can't go deep enough to hit a sub that dives deep in deep water. When your opponent starts getting the Type 95 Mod-2 and Type 2 depth charges that will change. I think the first ships start getting the Type 95 Mod-2 around 4/42 or so.

Once Singapore and Palembang fall, you will want to set up sub patrols in the waters north of Borneo, because big convoys will have to go through there to get back and forth between the oil/resource bases and the Home Islands. You may end up basing subs out of Darwin or Broome (just place some AS there) or even from Calcutta. One thing I would not do is put too many subs near the Home Islands, if your opponent has any experience, he will have a lot of ASW patrols and aircraft doing ASW there. Same for Takao as the waters around there are a good choke point.

Anyway, my advice may be obsolete since I haven't played a PBEM in such a long time, but I hope it helps or gives you some new ideas.

[Timotheus]

OK, at this point I want to send them from Pearl to Soerabaja.

Despite them turning RED, is it SAFE to do so i.e. they won't get stuck on the way for lack of fuel?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

OK, at this point I want to send them from Pearl to Soerabaja.

Despite them turning RED, is it SAFE to do so i.e. they won't get stuck on the way for lack of fuel?

Change the homeport to Soerbaja. Still red? If yes, they will accumulate damage and might sink.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

OK, at this point I want to send them from Pearl to Soerabaja.

Despite them turning RED, is it SAFE to do so i.e. they won't get stuck on the way for lack of fuel?

Change the homeport to Soerbaja. Still red? If yes, they will accumulate damage and might sink.

However, if you can find a port on the way that has some fuel (or can set up a tanker TF to go to such a place safely), you can have them stop off and refuel on the way by setting home to Soerbaja, but setting the subs to first travel to the base with fuel.

Whatever you do, don't run them out of fuel. That's a lesson I learned the hard way. [:-]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

OK, at this point I want to send them from Pearl to Soerabaja.

Despite them turning RED, is it SAFE to do so i.e. they won't get stuck on the way for lack of fuel?

Change the homeport to Soerbaja. Still red? If yes, they will accumulate damage and might sink.

However, if you can find a port on the way that has some fuel (or can set up a tanker TF to go to such a place safely), you can have them stop off and refuel on the way by setting home to Soerbaja, but setting the subs to first travel to the base with fuel.

Whatever you do, don't run them out of fuel. That's a lesson I learned the hard way. [:-]

And if he's playing someone with any sense, Soerbaja will be sporting a red flag when the boats arrive. Soerbaja is a fine sub base for (mumble) days/weeks. Not months. PI S-boats? Fine. CONUS S-boats? Way too far.

[geofflambert]

One thing about subs. They cannot be fueled at sea by any type of ship so if they run out of fuel they are goners. I don't trust the AI to run my subs for among a lot of other reasons the AI will allow that to happen. If the opportunity arises where you can place a sub tender somewhere useful where it won't get sunk, do that. Otherwise keep them near to port.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Basically any time I play as allies, I have 2 uses for subs early game, depending on their torpedoes.

Now granted I am very rusty since I have not played a PBEM in a long time, but from my memory, these are the things I've done.

The good torpedo subs I send to the SRA where you are sure to find a lot of tankers and merchant ships, which are the most valuable targets in the long run.

The other boats with bad torpedoes are really best used to ferry troops or supplies until the torpedoes are fixed. They can move a decent amount of supplies 36-48 for most of the subs, and are not so easy to intercept, unlike your AKs would be. Meaning you might just be able to hold the places you need to hold a short bit longer. Delay for the IJN player is always bad.

And as a mostly IJN player, I can tell you this. As the Allies place your sub patrols where they do not go into shallow water. For the first year of the game, the IJN basically doesn't have any depth charges that can drop deep enough to hit your subs in deep water, meaning they can't damage your subs. The Type 95 DC simply can't go deep enough to hit a sub that dives deep in deep water. When your opponent starts getting the Type 95 Mod-2 and Type 2 depth charges that will change. I think the first ships start getting the Type 95 Mod-2 around 4/42 or so.

Once Singapore and Palembang fall, you will want to set up sub patrols in the waters north of Borneo, because big convoys will have to go through there to get back and forth between the oil/resource bases and the Home Islands. You may end up basing subs out of Darwin or Broome (just place some AS there) or even from Calcutta. One thing I would not do is put too many subs near the Home Islands, if your opponent has any experience, he will have a lot of ASW patrols and aircraft doing ASW there. Same for Takao as the waters around there are a good choke point.

Anyway, my advice may be obsolete since I haven't played a PBEM in such a long time, but I hope it helps or gives you some new ideas.

I use all my subs for one basic purpose. That is to sink ships. Putting them on other missions (other than once in a while) is a waste of assets. I do not worry about shallow water in 1942. Japanese ASW is very weak and will remain so until late 43. Their best ASW asset is to train up as many bombers as they can and that takes time. Never mind the lousy torpedoes on the fleet boats. Considering that you run only a small risk of losing a sub to Japanese ASW in 1942, go ahead and put them into combat. A lousy chance to hit is better than no chance at all which is what you have if you do not deploy them. They will have some success regardless. In 1942 a torpedo hit on the Akagi can be a balance of power changer in your next carrier battle. The S boats are useful and generally patrol near where the fighting is heaviest. But the MK-10 is a weaker torpedo. Use your AS type ships to support them. Port size does not matter much then.

[m10bob]

As mentioned above, those S boats are great because they have the much more effective torpedoes.
Submarines make great "picket boats" and can be used for scouting purposes, sending reports on enemy ship movements.
Do not forget that where ever you have subs also increases your ability to recover downed friendly airmen as well!

Take note of each days naval sightings and you needn't be a genius to figure out the enemy traffic lanes..Put your subs between narrow island passages on the approaches to his ports and it will increase your odds to locate and sink them.
The Japanese cannot afford to lose *anything* that floats.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

One thing about subs. They cannot be fueled at sea by any type of ship so if they run out of fuel they are goners. I don't trust the AI to run my subs for among a lot of other reasons the AI will allow that to happen. If the opportunity arises where you can place a sub tender somewhere useful where it won't get sunk, do that. Otherwise keep them near to port.

Not necessarily goners - they are built pretty rugged and can travel 30-50 hexes, one hex at a time - racking up system damage to be sure, but if they make it to a good port they repair fairly fast.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: m10bob

As mentioned above, those S boats are great because they have the much more effective torpedoes.
Submarines make great "picket boats" and can be used for scouting purposes, sending reports on enemy ship movements.
Do not forget that where ever you have subs also increases your ability to recover downed friendly airmen as well!

Take note of each days naval sightings and you needn't be a genius to figure out the enemy traffic lanes..Put your subs between narrow island passages on the approaches to his ports and it will increase your odds to locate and sink them.
The Japanese cannot afford to lose *anything* that floats.

I think it was Bill Olson who pointed out that subs are leaky pickets. He noted that their visible horizon at sea was about 11 miles, so they only see about half the width of the hex in perfect conditions, less in rain or night. So use them in that role if you must, but don't rely totally on them spotting danger.