Off topic: Great Polish (with subtitles) doc about Soviet prep for WW2

[Timotheus]

One of the greatest documentaries I've seen.

March of the Liberators

Note the interviews with living witnesses, both military and civilians, and LISTEN to what they say and compare it to the VERSION of history which you were taught.

Also, compare it to an American "documentary":

Just for comparison, BMP1 doc on Murican TV

Note that no one from Russia was interviewed, only an American was interviewed (Mr. Zaloga - the Polish name/roots apply; good American historian) and while the show is supposed to be about the Soviet BMP1, more than half the show is a commercial for the Bradley Fighting Vehicle!

[mind_messing]

The Soviet and Post-Soviet historiography of the Second World War generally needs to be taken with a near fatal dose of salt. This seems to be the case here.

I've not seen the documentary, but it seems to be based on Suvorov's writing. The issue is that Suvorov is right in theory and wrong in practice. A Soviet attack into Germany was on the cards, but they were nowhere near ready in July of '41.

The whole argument falls down when you consider the near total paralysis of the Soviet High Command in the summer of '41 - that's not the psychological response of an army gearing up to go to war, it's the response of an army that's not ready for any form of combat operations.

[BBfanboy]

Didn't Stalin carry out a huge purge of the officer corps in 1940, executing most of the high ranking ones? Those that were left had reason to fear making any miss-step. Can't think of a better way to paralyze initiative!

[Timotheus]

"The Soviet and Post-Soviet historiography of the Second World War generally needs to be taken with a near fatal dose of salt. This seems to be the case here."

Absolutely.
The official positions of the past Soviet and current Russian government was that there were no plans for Soviet attack on Germany in 1941, and anyone who dares to say otherwise, or Gods' forbid get archival documents proving this, was to be arrested.

"Didn't Stalin carry out a huge purge of the officer corps in 1940, executing most of the high ranking ones? Those that were left had reason to fear making any miss-step."

Well, that is a lie by omission. NKVD guys (secret police for those who don't know) wore military uniforms and had military ranks. A lot of those guys were shot. The so called "Purge" was simply Stalin shooting the butchers who massacred the civilians and then the communist party.

Soviet Union (and now Russia), like every empire in existance, past and present, including USA, had byzantine politics, with backstabbing, psychopaths climbing the ladder to the top, etc etc etc.

It went like this: Once Stalin, the psychopath, went all the way to the top, his main goal was to KEEP that position for himself, and secondly "world revolution" (or as much territory as he could grab). So he started with breaking the will of the inhabitants of the country - hence the "Holodomor" Ukrainian holocaust, millions of ordinary Russians, Ukrainians, Belorussians, Poles, Ingush etc etc etc shot or sent to the gulags.

Once the country was bent to his will, i.e. no one was thinking of even thinking against the rulers, much less rebellion, he discovered that those who were doing the torturing and shooting for him became too powerful. So he had them tortured and shot in turn, and replaced them with a new crew.

So that's the country bent to his will. And so with the communist party - all new people (old ones, Leninists were shot) who got elevated to their positions all thanks to him. And the secret police had a new crew, all (so far) loyal to him and afraid to abuse their power.

And at this moment - oopsie - he discovered that the Army.... the military... was kept in check by both the power of the party bozos lording it over them and by the informants and the work of the secret police. But both the Party and the secret police were weakened by his actions, and the Army started to act up. There was a real danger of a coup by the army against him.

Something had to be done, both to keep himself in power and to not let the country (possibly) experience a coup/civil war.

And something was done.

Incidentally, like I said at the beginning, NKVD guys had military ranks (modern FSB also has military ranks).

Pop quiz: the official version lists a lot of generals of various ranks (general major, general colonel etc etc) as shot. How many of these generals were Army or Navy or Air Force, and how many were NKVD guys?