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Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed"automatically?

 
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Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed&quo... - 5/16/2017 2:05:38 PM   
Timotheus

 

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I set them on high threat tolerance, they have 100% torpedoes, fuel to last a war, and are set on "NO RETIREMENT"..... and every turn they choose the "retirement allowed" on their own.

Can I do the NKVD thing and start shooting some commanders?

This.... is aggrevating.

Should I set them to ABSOLUTE threat tolerance?
What can I do to make them STAY where I want them?

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 2:10:43 PM   
John B.


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Do you have them set for a patrol zone or just giving them a destination hex?

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 2:17:51 PM   
witpqs


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Did you choose "auto sub ops" (or whatever the wording is) when you started the game?

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 2:32:35 PM   
Timotheus

 

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I just plop them on a hex, no patrol.
No auto sub ops, everything is manual.

edit: of course, they have 0 damage.
I put them on ABSOLUTE threat tolerance, crossing fingers I won't have firing squads in this war.

< Message edited by Timotheus -- 5/16/2017 2:42:08 PM >


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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 2:55:07 PM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

I just plop them on a hex, no patrol.
No auto sub ops, everything is manual.

edit: of course, they have 0 damage.
I put them on ABSOLUTE threat tolerance, crossing fingers I won't have firing squads in this war.



If you have them set for manual, you still must set their "loiter" or patrol dates. Otherwise they will come home on day one..

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 3:00:02 PM   
btd64


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What you want to do is set the subs on a patrol mission with boundaries. Same way you would set a surface group to patrol an area....GP

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 3:03:11 PM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

What you want to do is set the subs on a patrol mission with boundaries. Same way you would set a surface group to patrol an area....GP

+1

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 3:05:09 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: General Patton

What you want to do is set the subs on a patrol mission with boundaries. Same way you would set a surface group to patrol an area....GP


Yes, and if the sub runs out of torps or low on fuel it will return to base rearm and then return to its assigned patrol zone without you having to do anything.

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 3:14:57 PM   
LST Express


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Been playing this game for years and didn't realize they would do that!

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 3:28:02 PM   
Timotheus

 

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"What you want to do is set the subs on a patrol mission with boundaries. Same way you would set a surface group to patrol an area....GP "

Actually I do not patrol, I want them in a certain hex.
That way they do not use fuel... or much fuel.... and can stay at sea for far longer.

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 3:31:18 PM   
Aurorus

 

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When you are giving your subs orders, click on "TF routing", then got to "select a patrol zone." Assign 1, 2, or 3 hexes as the boundaries for the patrol zone. The submarine will then move from one hex to another until it is low on fuel or torpedoes or has sustained high damage. At this point, it will automatically return to base. Once it returns to base and replenishes, if it does not have much damage, it will automatically return to this patrol zone.

In general, you should use patrol zone for any TF that you want to seek out and engage the enemy, whether it is submarines, an anti-sub TF, or a surface combat TF. For example, if you want a SCTF to cover an invasion hex, it is best to set it to patrol that hex rather than simply assign the SCTF that hex as a destination.

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 3:32:52 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

"What you want to do is set the subs on a patrol mission with boundaries. Same way you would set a surface group to patrol an area....GP "

Actually I do not patrol, I want them in a certain hex.
That way they do not use fuel... or much fuel.... and can stay at sea for far longer.


You can do it the same way by picking one location to patrol in. Keep in mind that it becomes easier to spot and attack your subs when they are in the same hex for long periods....GP

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 3:35:19 PM   
Aurorus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

"What you want to do is set the subs on a patrol mission with boundaries. Same way you would set a surface group to patrol an area....GP "

Actually I do not patrol, I want them in a certain hex.
That way they do not use fuel... or much fuel.... and can stay at sea for far longer.



Then give them a patrol zone of only 1 hex. Your chances of engaging the enemy are greatly reduced, however. Also, moving reduces detection level. If the submarine is detected stationary, it will be more difficult to lose detection level. A submarine that is detected is rarely able to attack.

In December 1941, your submarines, especially the Dutch subs, are your most effective weapon. Use them to the best of their capabilities. Do not worry about fuel. Submarines do not use a large amount of fuel. Now all those BBs at Pearl... that is a different matter.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 5/16/2017 3:46:57 PM >

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 3:49:51 PM   
m10bob


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From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

"What you want to do is set the subs on a patrol mission with boundaries. Same way you would set a surface group to patrol an area....GP "

Actually I do not patrol, I want them in a certain hex.
That way they do not use fuel... or much fuel.... and can stay at sea for far longer.



Then give them a patrol zone of only 1 hex. Your chances of engaging the enemy are greatly reduced, however. Also, moving reduces detection level. If the submarine is detected stationary, it will be more difficult to lose detection level. A submarine that is detected is rarely able to attack.

In December 1941, your submarines, especially the Dutch subs, are your most effective weapon. Use them to the best of their capabilities. Do not worry about fuel. Submarines do not use a large amount of fuel. Now all those BBs at Pearl... that is a different matter.



Those "one hex" zones can be useful especially around Formosa, Manila, and near major ports because those subs are also "spotting units" and will also rescue downed friendly pilots...

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 3:51:32 PM   
Timotheus

 

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I see, I can linger a bit....

Still wish they would not retreat on their own for no reason!

Thanks for all the help.


edit: ahhh, then just set the patrol zone to 1 hex...

< Message edited by Timotheus -- 5/16/2017 4:05:17 PM >


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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 3:52:51 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

"What you want to do is set the subs on a patrol mission with boundaries. Same way you would set a surface group to patrol an area....GP "

Actually I do not patrol, I want them in a certain hex.
That way they do not use fuel... or much fuel.... and can stay at sea for far longer.


They will use the same fuel as if they were patrolling within that hex for a day. All ships, assuming there is no bug (and you are using the updated .exe, as this should have been part of the latest official patch I think), will burn 40 endurance if they remain in a hex each day as they are assumed to be steaming about within that hex, not sitting still.

Doesn't matter whether you are setting them to that destination or not.

Also, this is anecdotal, but setting them to remain on station at the destination hex may not get you as many attacks as if they were patrolling. Patrolling TFs have their own unique set of movement conditions, including reaction, that should lead to more contact with the enemy.

In short, you should set your subs to patrol. By not doing so you are not really using them correctly. The only use I can see for subs set to remain on station is if you DON'T want them to attack and just want them there to provide intel on aerial search patterns or something.

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 3:57:38 PM   
Aurorus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

"What you want to do is set the subs on a patrol mission with boundaries. Same way you would set a surface group to patrol an area....GP "

Actually I do not patrol, I want them in a certain hex.
That way they do not use fuel... or much fuel.... and can stay at sea for far longer.



Then give them a patrol zone of only 1 hex. Your chances of engaging the enemy are greatly reduced, however. Also, moving reduces detection level. If the submarine is detected stationary, it will be more difficult to lose detection level. A submarine that is detected is rarely able to attack.

In December 1941, your submarines, especially the Dutch subs, are your most effective weapon. Use them to the best of their capabilities. Do not worry about fuel. Submarines do not use a large amount of fuel. Now all those BBs at Pearl... that is a different matter.



Those "one hex" zones can be useful especially around Formosa, Manila, and near major ports because those subs are also "spotting units" and will also rescue downed friendly pilots...



Near enemy ports is the last place that you want your subs stationary, because they will probably be in aerial search patterns, which will raise their detection level each time a search plane passes over them. A TF losses 1 Detection level per impulse. So, overnight, a sub will lose 2 DL by the next dawn: one for the night impulse and one for the AM impulse. Each hex moved will also reduce DL by 1. If a sub is stationary near a port, it will probably accumulate more than 2 DL during the daylight hours. Therefore, it will always be detected, rarely attack, and be an easy target for ASW TFs.

To give you an example, in my current game, an allied submarine near Truk took a critical hit on its fuel tanks. It lost all of its endurance almost immediately. It sat there stationary for 7 days, and was attacked by air and by ASW TFs almost every day. It was hit twice by search pilots with rank 20 ASW. The point: do not sit stationary by enemy bases.

< Message edited by Aurorus -- 5/16/2017 4:02:23 PM >

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/16/2017 10:33:46 PM   
Will_L

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus

I see, I can linger a bit....

Still wish they would not retreat on their own for no reason!

Thanks for all the help.


edit: ahhh, then just set the patrol zone to 1 hex...


Also set their reaction range to 1 (the max for subs) so they may attack spotted TF's that pass through adjacent
hexes. They'll return to the patrol hex you have set for them.

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/17/2017 12:11:30 AM   
patrickl


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From: Singapore
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

When you are giving your subs orders, click on "TF routing", then got to "select a patrol zone." Assign 1, 2, or 3 hexes as the boundaries for the patrol zone. The submarine will then move from one hex to another until it is low on fuel or torpedoes or has sustained high damage. At this point, it will automatically return to base. Once it returns to base and replenishes, if it does not have much damage, it will automatically return to this patrol zone.

In general, you should use patrol zone for any TF that you want to seek out and engage the enemy, whether it is submarines, an anti-sub TF, or a surface combat TF. For example, if you want a SCTF to cover an invasion hex, it is best to set it to patrol that hex rather than simply assign the SCTF that hex as a destination.


Thanks for your wise words. I have played Pac Wars, UV, WITP and AE and never got the hang of it managing subs. Now I know how to use them.

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/17/2017 7:02:42 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LST Express

Been playing this game for years and didn't realize they would do that!



Well they will but it's not necessarily a good thing as they'll return without getting any damage repaired.

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/17/2017 1:11:33 PM   
LST Express


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Good point, I've always preferred handling my subs manually as much as possible anyway.

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/17/2017 4:36:43 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

Near enemy ports is the last place that you want your subs stationary, because they will probably be in aerial search patterns, which will raise their detection level each time a search plane passes over them. A TF losses 1 Detection level per impulse. So, overnight, a sub will lose 2 DL by the next dawn: one for the night impulse and one for the AM impulse. Each hex moved will also reduce DL by 1. If a sub is stationary near a port, it will probably accumulate more than 2 DL during the daylight hours. Therefore, it will always be detected, rarely attack, and be an easy target for ASW TFs.



I'm pretty sure this is not quite accurate. It's important to note that there are two parts of DL: actual DL, and maximum (or potential) DL.

The actual DL is cleared every phase. It is the potential DL that drops depending on whether your stuff moved. So if your stuff doesn't move, its potential DL doesn't drop, and the next time it is spotted by something (a plane) then its actual DL will be much higher than if it had been spotted by the same plane with a potential DL of 0.

Check your TFs sometime in Tracker, which is the only place I know of where you can see potential DL when actual DL is zero. After being spotted the turn before, at say DL 10/10, your TFs on the next turn will show something like DL 0/6.

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RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/17/2017 5:51:22 PM   
Aurorus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

Near enemy ports is the last place that you want your subs stationary, because they will probably be in aerial search patterns, which will raise their detection level each time a search plane passes over them. A TF losses 1 Detection level per impulse. So, overnight, a sub will lose 2 DL by the next dawn: one for the night impulse and one for the AM impulse. Each hex moved will also reduce DL by 1. If a sub is stationary near a port, it will probably accumulate more than 2 DL during the daylight hours. Therefore, it will always be detected, rarely attack, and be an easy target for ASW TFs.



I'm pretty sure this is not quite accurate. It's important to note that there are two parts of DL: actual DL, and maximum (or potential) DL.

The actual DL is cleared every phase. It is the potential DL that drops depending on whether your stuff moved. So if your stuff doesn't move, its potential DL doesn't drop, and the next time it is spotted by something (a plane) then its actual DL will be much higher than if it had been spotted by the same plane with a potential DL of 0.

Check your TFs sometime in Tracker, which is the only place I know of where you can see potential DL when actual DL is zero. After being spotted the turn before, at say DL 10/10, your TFs on the next turn will show something like DL 0/6.



You may be correct. I have never checked TFs with 0 DL in tracker.

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Post #: 23
RE: Why do my subs often go to "retirement allowed... - 5/19/2017 3:42:51 AM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Timotheus
edit: ahhh, then just set the patrol zone to 1 hex...


As mentioned above, sub warfare is all about detection levels. Setting your patrol zone to one hex pretty much guarantees your sub will be far less effective than having it move between 2 or 3 different designated hexes.

If your sub is spotted it gets detected (attacking something also raises detection of your sub) it will almost never attack until/if it manages to slowly reduce its detection level. Staying on the move guarantees a detected sub will lose any detection level it has almost instantly and your sub will then stay lethal.

Subs on the move constantly will still stay at sea for months unless they are the tiny coastal subs with only 3k or so endurance. Those will need regular refueling no matter what you do.

My subs are always moving and in 99% of the cases returning to port is generally triggered by depleted ammo stocks or battle damage, not depleted fuel levels.

Jim

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Post #: 24
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