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Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed

 
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Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 12:43:58 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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I sent MichaelM a PM since I just had Jamshedpur "auto flip" during the early part of the Combat Replay. I had two Tank Rgt and Armored Car arrive the end of last turn (ordered to deliberate attack this turn, but ended up not needing to occur). There were no Allied LCUs present. The Heavy Industry (HI) was TOTALLY destroyed (110 to 00). Have you seen this yourself? Is this a bug or WAD?

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 3:23:16 PM   
witpqs


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I don't recall anything being special about auto-flipping in terms of industry not being destroyed. Maybe someone else does?

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 3:33:17 PM   
Lokasenna


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Just another nail in the coffin I have in my basement to hold the "defending a base with more engineers is worth it to maybe cause more damage to the industry" hype. I didn't realize it could go to such extremes, but I have been frustrated in the past with exceedingly "easy" victories on attacks resulting in completely destroyed industry.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 3:34:11 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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A few days ago I took Calcutta against 2 Indian divisions and three brigades plus and I got industry undamaged except for the HI coming back at 1/2 value. Just think its strange for an 'empty' base to then have 100% HI destroyed.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 6:19:02 PM   
Yaab


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Wow, seems B-29 program was really too expensive after all.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 8:32:28 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

A few days ago I took Calcutta against 2 Indian divisions and three brigades plus and I got industry undamaged except for the HI coming back at 1/2 value. Just think its strange for an 'empty' base to then have 100% HI destroyed.

The ½ value result is normal. I wonder if there is a random that causes the total loss of the industry on rare occasions? I vaguely recall having that result at least once.

FWIW, when an enemy base is unoccupied and my troops arrive, I always set the unit with the fewest AV points to attack and take it, in case the damage is related to the strength of the AV set to attack. The auto-flip happens, but there may be a check on the force being applied to make the flip happen. If the base auto-flipped when my forces were one hex away from entering, NONE of the industry is damaged, not even aircraft plants and manpower.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 10:06:27 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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"Houston, we HAVE a problem!!"

Asanol's HI (200) just followed Jamshedpur and ALL the HI was destroyed. WTF!! Auto flipping caused complete destruction of HI, but Resources remain totally intact.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 10:13:12 PM   
Aurorus

 

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Auto-flipping of bases should not cause destruction. That is poor and should be fixed in the next patch. It seems that all the normal checks for things at bases auto-flipped are not made correctly: such as industry rolls. Another example is aircraft rebasing. I once had the AI in lose all 3 AVG squadrons, a Spitfire squadron, and about 35 Hudsons in 2 turns from bases auto-flipping. Of course, the AI needs no aviation support to fly his planes, so the bases were empty except for the air squadrons.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 10:34:54 PM   
GetAssista

 

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I always got all my autoflipped bases with fully intact facilities (airfield/port/forts), production (Res, LI) and whatever supply and fuel there. But I'm not sure about specifically HI, because I do not recall ever autoflipping indistrial powerhouses. 100% destruction must be a bug and should be fixed.

Speaking of damage to industry, there was another shrange behaviour of RND. I posted about it somewhere here a lot earlier. Namely, heavy fighting giving extreme results - when large masses of troos fight for base, capture resulting in either no destruction or full destruction of industry, no inbetweens.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 11:00:34 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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This time the three tank rgts did not arrive until after the auto flip had occurred. From my point of view, the auto flipping IS causing the complete destruction of the HI.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 11:10:41 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I sent MichaelM a PM since I just had Jamshedpur "auto flip" during the early part of the Combat Replay. I had two Tank Rgt and Armored Car arrive the end of last turn (ordered to deliberate attack this turn, but ended up not needing to occur). There were no Allied LCUs present. The Heavy Industry (HI) was TOTALLY destroyed (110 to 00). Have you seen this yourself? Is this a bug or WAD?


Took that dot base in China that is SE of Changsha and has 120 resource value. Came back with 27 damaged in a hex that hadn't any opponent. Later took the base in Sumatra that has 80 resources. It too was empty, but decided to just let it flip automatically and got it 100%. Think when a base is taken in an attack damage is determined by randoms. Decided would take all future unopposed bases with the automatic flip. I believe what you have experienced is WAD.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 11:18:41 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

This time the three tank rgts did not arrive until after the auto flip had occurred. From my point of view, the auto flipping IS causing the complete destruction of the HI.

Keep an eye on autoflips of bases where there is LI but no HI. The LI takes the 50% hit. I have never seen two bases with complete destruction of HI or LI during autoflip. Was your game version updated recently by patch/beta?

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 11:19:52 PM   
mind_messing

 

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The destruction of industry when bases change hands is one element of the code I wish would just be removed. It would be a nice feature if it was proportional to the level of combat taking place in the hex, but it isn't.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 11:27:02 PM   
rustysi


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OK, hadn't read the whole thread. As far as HI goes its supposed to half no matter what according to the manual. See p236, 13.6 Capturing Industry. However it says nothing about 100% destruction.

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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 11:30:20 PM   
rustysi


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I just recalled I had Magwe autoflip in my current game. I just checked to be sure, and all is 100% intact.

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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 11:37:58 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Keep an eye on autoflips of bases where there is LI but no HI. The LI takes the 50% hit.

I think you are mixing LI and HI here. 50% of HI is completely destroyed each times the base changes hands, it is in the manual. Nothing about LI

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 11:43:36 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

OK, hadn't read the whole thread. As far as HI goes its supposed to half no matter what according to the manual. See p236, 13.6 Capturing Industry. However it says nothing about 100% destruction.


It's a bit different, though. What nygiants is seeing happen is not even in the same realm as the HI halving that occurs. In the example of a size 200 HI location, the halving occurs when you capture it...reducing it to a size 100 HI location. Not from 200(0) to 100(100) automatically, from but 200(0) to 100(0). What's happening to him is that instead of capturing a 100(0) from autoflip, he's getting a 0(100) for some reason.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 11:46:36 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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We are using the latest version and the game started that way.

I would have been happy to take bases with HI just halved. 800 extra HI per day from greater Calcutta was part of the reason I invaded India.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 5/13/2017 4:08:22 AM >


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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/12/2017 11:49:03 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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HI showed up as 0(1) both times.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/13/2017 12:41:36 AM   
Aurorus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

HI showed up as 0(1) both times.


I have a strange feeling that the problem lies in that somewhere in the code, the flip is causing the game engine to think that the base changed hands twice: once when it actually flipped and once for when your units occupied the hex.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/13/2017 1:09:34 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

HI showed up as 0(1) both times.


I have a strange feeling that the problem lies in that somewhere in the code, the flip is causing the game engine to think that the base changed hands twice: once when it actually flipped and once for when your units occupied the hex.


When it flipped, he gained control of the hex. When the units entered (or when their ordered attack would have occurred), he already had control.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/13/2017 2:21:37 AM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Keep an eye on autoflips of bases where there is LI but no HI. The LI takes the 50% hit.

I think you are mixing LI and HI here. 50% of HI is completely destroyed each times the base changes hands, it is in the manual. Nothing about LI


The manual is old and not accurate in all respects. I report what I have seen - many times. I should clarify I am talking about the forced autoflip where you have forces in the city hex and the enemy has none, so you order an attack. If the autoflip occurs before you have troops in the hex, nothing is destroyed.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/13/2017 3:28:14 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
Keep an eye on autoflips of bases where there is LI but no HI. The LI takes the 50% hit.

I think you are mixing LI and HI here. 50% of HI is completely destroyed each times the base changes hands, it is in the manual. Nothing about LI


The manual is old and not accurate in all respects. I report what I have seen - many times. I should clarify I am talking about the forced autoflip where you have forces in the city hex and the enemy has none, so you order an attack. If the autoflip occurs before you have troops in the hex, nothing is destroyed.


That's how it should be, but is not the behavior being reported here in the second case.

In the first case, it should have still been the same since no attack actually occurred.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 5/13/2017 3:29:12 AM >

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/13/2017 3:28:56 AM   
Yaab


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BBfanboy may be right. At the start of the grand campaign, Yichang is mostly vacated by Japs. In a few days, a bunch of Chinese units arrive from the NW at the empty base and is set to DA the base. Just add some HI in Yichang and test the whole thing.

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/13/2017 10:37:52 AM   
GetAssista

 

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I did some autoflipping in the test scenario in v1.8.11.26b

Allied bases started at everything (res/oil/refinery/HI/LI) at 100(0) and manpower at 10(0).

Autoflipping resulted in HI at 0(1) and manpower at 3(0), everything else at 100(0) witout any damage.
Capture with DA resulted in HI at 50(1) and manpower at 3(0), everything else at 100(0). Sometimes with minor damage

Clearly, HI wipeout with autoflip is a bug and should be fixed. Everything else WAD

< Message edited by GetAssista -- 5/13/2017 10:38:18 AM >

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/13/2017 12:01:54 PM   
ny59giants_MatrixForum


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Thank You for confirming!!

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RE: Auto Flipping = Heavy Industry destroyed - 5/13/2017 9:07:15 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

I did some autoflipping in the test scenario in v1.8.11.26b

Allied bases started at everything (res/oil/refinery/HI/LI) at 100(0) and manpower at 10(0).

Autoflipping resulted in HI at 0(1) and manpower at 3(0), everything else at 100(0) witout any damage.
Capture with DA resulted in HI at 50(1) and manpower at 3(0), everything else at 100(0). Sometimes with minor damage

Clearly, HI wipeout with autoflip is a bug and should be fixed. Everything else WAD


Maybe its zero on the autoflip because the owners took everything with them when they 'bugged out'. Kinda like the Soviets taking everything to the Urals.

Sorry....


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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