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Terrain - 4/27/2017 10:26:55 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2318
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
There is a problem with the display of terrain in the game. The game map, and this includes CHEMKID's map mod, is correctly showing the topography of Italy, it is not exact, but a reasonable display for the scale represented. There are mountains where mountains should be, etc..

However, where there should be 'hills', the game is calling the terrain 'rough' and in the vanilla game map the hex colour for hills is yellow, whilst the hex colour for rough is mid-brown, the reverse of what would be expected for normal map conventions.

The error becomes even clearer using the CHEMKID map mod, which more closely represents an actual map, as hexes which should obviously be hills are noted as rough in the information bar at the bottom of the game screen.

As an example, the hexes around CASSINO are listed as 'Rough', even though represented in the stock map as a mid-brown colour (more suitable for showing hills), which when shown on CHEMKID's map mod are obviously hills. The terrain around CASSINO is hilly, as current maps show and all historical references to the fighting around Monte Cassino make clear.





This error is continued into the combat calculations, where the battle odds are calculated on the type of terrain shown in the information box. The Battle Results Panel shows the same terrain type as the info box.

I must emphasis that the stock and modded map images are correct, but I think that the terrain has been incorrectly labelled within the game system, where 'hill' and 'rough' terrain have been transposed.

I don't think this is a problem, because the game Manual has 'Rough' terrain as more restrictive than 'hills', this might be by design, but to my mind hills should be more of a block than rough terrain and this should show in combat odds and stacking limits.

Here are a selection of manual extracts referring to hill and rough terrain:

Mountain troops for both sides enjoy advantages over regular infantry when attacking or defending in rough or mountainous terrain. .... surely this should be hill and mountainous terrain ?

Commando and ranger units also enjoy the same combat benefits as mountain troops when fighting in rough or mountainous terrain.

Hilly terrain is also pretty easy to move through and once again both types of units receive a combat bonus.

Mountain terrain is like Rough but the infantry bonus is greater and the effects on movement more severe.

…....., plus units in rough or mountain terrain are better protected against those in open terrain.



These are examples of combat odds modifiers from the manual, I think 'Rough' and 'Hills' have been transposed.

STACK LIMITS

Hilly StackLimit = 7
Rough StackLimit = 6
........................................

TERRAIN EFFECT ON COMBAT
ARMOURED/MECHANIZED:


Terrain effect if defender

Hilly No effect
Rough - 30%

NON-MECHANIZED:

Terrain effect on defender

Hilly +10%
Rough + 20% (+40% if mountain troops or commandos) - again, surely this should be 'Hills' for a mountain troop advantage ?
........................................



It may be by design, but I think that 'rough' and 'hills' have been transposed in the manual and even in the map Legend, if you reverse the text, rough/hills, the meaning of the manual references makes more sense.

Whether the effects are accidental, or intentional, the hexes that look like hills on the map have more combat odds/stacking restriction than rough terrain, even though the game calls it 'Rough', it acts like hills, as I expect such terrain should be acting.

The conclusion is that the game has display errors and game manual text is transposed, but the errors cancel each other out, the maps and combat odds/stacking features are working correctly, just refer to the map for terrain types and ignore what the game display and info panels are saying on these two terrain types.





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< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 5/4/2017 8:38:21 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon
Post #: 1
RE: Terrain - 4/27/2017 10:46:22 AM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2318
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
I don't know if it is by design that the manual has Rough terrain acting with more restriction than Hills and there is a lot of difference between the gently rolling hills of Tuscany and the craggy hills elsewhere in Italy.

Rough terrain, seen in this image, can certainly bring problems, but I still think hilly terrain in Italy is even worse :







This is in dry conditions !!! Italy was certainly a difficult battleground.


Whatever Frank's original intention was, reversing all the Hill/Rough manual references would confirm hills as the more restrictive terrain and more advantageous to mountain troops, which I feel is the correct balance. The information panel text can be ignored, whilst the maps, especially the CHEMKID mod, show the real geographically correct terrain clearly.

This is a display and manual text error, I think that the game is working just fine.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 5/4/2017 8:39:36 AM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 2
RE: Terrain - 4/27/2017 3:00:10 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2318
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
Here's an image of the hills in the background around the CASSINO area, no tank is going up there easily :






'Rough' is bad, but 'Hills' can be worse.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 4/27/2017 4:12:08 PM >


_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 3
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