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RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgain(Not USSR): (No HardLuckYetAgain please)

 
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RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/14/2017 2:31:11 AM   
Icier


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I wouldnt be throwing in the towel yet...he has broken up his armor in regiments, so while tough, they will bounce if you concentrate on one or two & cut a path.Looking
@ your map it seems you have plenty of tough cavalry poking about.

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Post #: 31
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/14/2017 8:23:02 AM   
Dinglir


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As this is a bitter end scenario, your strategy should reflect this.

If you lose Leningrad in 1941, tha Axis are going to pile up Victory points for the entire year of 1942 and very likely 1943 as well. In short, you are going to be so far behind on points, that you just can't win.

If you lose Moscow, you have a chance to take it back during the winter of 1941/42 (remember you are playing normal blizzard). If you don't, I think you've lost the game - the Germans will get so many points you just can't recover.

I do think you should put up some defence in the south, as you need to keep your population and production up and make it more difficult for the Germans in their 1942 offensive. Remember the south is not good for German supplies.

So, in my opinion your task for the remainder of 1941 is this:

Summer/Fall:
1) Hold Leningrad at all costs
2) Do not lose terrain east of Moscow (those are your buildup areas for the coming Moscow offensive)
3) Delay the German advance in the south

Winter:
1) Retake Moscow




_____________________________

We need only to kick in the door, and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down.

Adolf Hitler, on the eve of Barbarossa.

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 32
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/14/2017 11:35:00 AM   
vonik

 

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You start to run out of railroad connections for your Northern armies . If you loose Yaroslavl or Sonkovo, you are down to a single railroad .
And you can say Goodbye to resupplying Moscow by air too .
I join the advice to move everything to Siberia as long as the trains are still rolling :)

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 33
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/14/2017 1:59:32 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Turn 9 : 14 August 1941

The ennemy is preparing to assault north. Moscow is still holding, thanks to air supply.



In the south, the evil troops are closing to Stalino.

I use cavalry as rear guard. It seems he do not like it very much. But cavalry division have no combat value so i do not care loosing them at the moment. They are just map painter.




< Message edited by Stelteck -- 4/16/2017 8:11:04 AM >

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 34
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/14/2017 3:05:50 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba


Stelteck, i realy dont want to ruin your moral but you should consider retreating to wladiwostok at the pacific ocean.:)



Ignore such defeatist advice. Emigrate to the USA

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Post #: 35
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/16/2017 8:17:47 AM   
Stelteck

 

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Turn 10 : 21 August 1941

German offensive smashed though my lines near Leningrad at cut the city from mainland. Still the ennemy have to move though difficult ground and i will be able to restore the front with the help of swamp.
In the city, i built from day one a huge defensive line to hold Leningrad here and one of my best army will take position for the Leningrad siege.



Otherwise the ennemy did not try to push east of moscow, and the town is still holding.



In the south, the ennemy reached Stalino. I will not be able to hold the city, so the southern front will defend Rostov.
SW front will defend Voronev.


(in reply to sillyflower)
Post #: 36
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/16/2017 8:34:53 AM   
Stelteck

 

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Turn 11 : 28 August 1941

The evil invader tried to bypass my lines of defense East. The advance was spectacular, still the german failed to reach the railroad and have swamps in front of them.
Still i have no trained reserve to fill the gap and i will have to rush trainee divisions in the swamp to try to hold the german advance. It may not hold next turn.

On the other hand, in front of Leningrad and Finns, the defenses are quite good.



ON others fronts, moscow is still holding, and i evacuated stalino to fallback to roskov.


(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 37
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/16/2017 8:57:08 AM   
Stelteck

 

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Turn 12 : 09 September 1941 !!!

Really ? This is bullshit lol !!!

The ennemy was not able or not willing to pursue offensive to cut the railroad to the port supplying Leningrad, but prefer to gently smashed though 3 lines of well prepared defenses at Leningrad to take the port. Easy.
I prepared these lines from day one of the invasion....

The ennemy first crushed 2 fortified levels 2, one in a swamp, then panzers crossed the large river and destroyed a fortification level 3. And still had some steam to take the fortified port just behind.



The third decisive battle with turn, the crossing of the river. LOL.



The garnison of moscow began to faint.



In the south, according to plan.



The collapse of Leningrad is a huge blow. And he did it where i was the strongest.

Is trying to resist a viable strategy in 1941 ? I think i would have been in better chape with no more land lost by taking all my army in the caucasus to train during 1941....
My defense is completely useless.


(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 38
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/16/2017 10:11:22 AM   
Dinglir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck
Is trying to resist a viable strategy in 1941 ? I think i would have been in better chape with no more land lost by taking all my army in the caucasus to train during 1941....
My defense is completely useless.


First of all, remember that playing Pelton and HardLuck, you have gone up against two of the best German players out there. If you make a mistake you are punished, and as a relative rookie, like myself, you are bound to make plenty of those.

If I may give you my personal take on Leningrad, I would suggest the following for next time:

1) Make sure all units in the Neva River hex are of the same command. You had two units attached directly to the Northern Front, which gives you -10% to your CV.
2) Make sure that army is commanded by a REALLY good army commander. In my current game vrs Hermann, I use Vasilevsky.
3) Once you have your fortification to level three, disband the fortified zone and replace it with another infantry division (you can fortify to lvl three again with enemy adjacent).
4) Make sure there are plenty of Sapper Regiments available in your Neva river army (against Hermann, I have four).
5) Make sure to build Osinovets to fortification level three as well. Once the Germans cross the river, they have only one hex to attack Osinovets from. So you may argue that Osinovets is as strong a position as the Neva River hex (unless the Germans also take Pavlovo). Remember to stack Osinovets with three ready units so the defenders of the Neva river does not withdraw here.
6) When the Germans do attack the Neva river hex, it is good to have really strong airforces available. By that I mean two airfields stacked with LaGG-3's and/or Yak-1's (and someone like Novikov leading them). Forget about the I-Types and the MiG-3's for this. They are a waste of space in such a fight. Of course, my personal experience against Pelton may not be valid in this regard. I see that HardLuck uses a lot more fighters in the Leningrad bombing attack than Pelton did against me.



_____________________________

We need only to kick in the door, and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down.

Adolf Hitler, on the eve of Barbarossa.

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 39
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/16/2017 10:47:35 AM   
bigbaba


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the leningrad results are not very unrealistic. he made several attacks with air support and tons of pioneers to soften the resistance. and he had 900 tanks in the last attack. also he had superb c&c which boosted his cv a lot.

i think in 1941 the axis can conquer almost any hex on the map. even with 3 soviet divisions on it. the reserve activation is also not realy a option for 41 soviets because of the poor moral of the divisions. in this case however it was possible to hold the hex. he got a 2.07:1 odds and thats a very close one. if you had better c&c and maybe a division instead of this brigade you could have been able to hold the hex for one more turn.

rifle corps on the other hand can defend hexes effectivly but they are not available now.

i wish you a hell of a blizzard to turn the table and give him some of his own medicine. this guy is realy scary and creepy and i would not want to face him in a dark alley.:)

< Message edited by bigbaba -- 4/16/2017 10:51:50 AM >

(in reply to Dinglir)
Post #: 40
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/16/2017 1:51:20 PM   
Dinglir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba
...i would not want to face him in a dark alley.:)


Why would you even consider playing WitE in a dark alley?

_____________________________

We need only to kick in the door, and the whole rotten structure will come crashing down.

Adolf Hitler, on the eve of Barbarossa.

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 41
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/19/2017 12:53:02 PM   
MrBlizzard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Stelteck

Turn 12 : 09 September 1941 !!!

Really ? This is bullshit lol !!!

The ennemy was not able or not willing to pursue offensive to cut the railroad to the port supplying Leningrad, but prefer to gently smashed though 3 lines of well prepared defenses at Leningrad to take the port. Easy.
I prepared these lines from day one of the invasion....

The ennemy first crushed 2 fortified levels 2, one in a swamp, then panzers crossed the large river and destroyed a fortification level 3. And still had some steam to take the fortified port just behind.



The third decisive battle with turn, the crossing of the river. LOL.
The garnison of moscow began to faint.
In the south, according to plan.
The collapse of Leningrad is a huge blow. And he did it where i was the strongest.

Is trying to resist a viable strategy in 1941 ? I think i would have been in better chape with no more land lost by taking all my army in the caucasus to train during 1941....
My defense is completely useless.




these battle results are quite common but they always leave me stunned and disappointed.
In manual it is said that attacking across a large river units get a huge disruption AND PLAYERS CAN ANTICIPATE A REDUCTION IN OVERALL CV OF UP TO HALF FOR MINOR RIVERS AND UP TO TWO THIRDS FOR MAJOR RIVERS !!! (It sounds correct )

Look here, Germans attacked across the Neva, a big river, and got their CV DOUBLED !!! it's six times more than one should expect.
There's something to revise IMHO...


< Message edited by MrBlizzard -- 4/19/2017 1:19:24 PM >


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Post #: 42
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/19/2017 5:43:23 PM   
vonik

 

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It's especially disappointing because 900 Panzers "attacking" across a major river would :

a) find not enough place to get in a firing position .
b) have nothing to fire at anyway
c) get slaughtered by megatons of hidden ATG playing hide and seek
d) get bombed and mortared to oblivion .

One has to realize that if 900 Pz were on 10 km shore of a major river, it would make 1 Pz every 10 meters !
So basically their contribution to the infantery crossing would be minor and to make cross 900 Pz on pontoon bridges Under fire would make a traffic jam that would need 2 weeks to untangle :)

(in reply to MrBlizzard)
Post #: 43
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/19/2017 6:07:57 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


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@Blizzard: As I understand the manual, the CV are not reduced directly, but through the disruption the attack over the river causes.
@vonik: I imagine such attacks like this: There is definitely not enough space for 900 tanks and all infantry to fight at the same time. But the artillery of all three divisions can support the attack and the commander can shuffle around the forces so they can fight for three days day and night.

(in reply to vonik)
Post #: 44
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/20/2017 6:44:56 AM   
MrBlizzard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EwaldvonKleist

@Blizzard: As I understand the manual, the CV are not reduced directly, but through the disruption the attack over the river causes.

Stelteck made me notice that the CV reduction is applied to starting CVs.
If you look at the battle report you can see that panzerdivisions begin the attack with only 57 and 63 CV , these clearly are already reduced values!
Edit: It's here that disruption strikes

< Message edited by MrBlizzard -- 4/20/2017 6:50:43 AM >


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Post #: 45
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/20/2017 9:09:35 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Turn 13 : 11 september 1941

Leningrad did not hold at all and despite air drop fall to the hands of the german troops.

The battle is other in the north, and now i'am performing a huge rail effort to return troops to others part of the front.



The south did not hold either, because of all the renforcement i sent north.

I'am building some defenses around voronev and Roskov.




(in reply to MrBlizzard)
Post #: 46
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/20/2017 9:11:28 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Turn 14 : 18 september 1941.

Ongoing effort to reposition my troops under german pressure.

Moscow and Leningrad in german hand.


(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 47
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/20/2017 9:12:46 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Turn 15 : 25 september 1941.

The ennemy reached Roskov and Voronev



< Message edited by Stelteck -- 4/20/2017 9:13:04 PM >

(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 48
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/20/2017 9:16:00 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Turn 16 : 02 October 1941

The ennemy stopped all offensive operation to began to built a huge line of defense especially in front of moscow.



He even stopped offensive in the south, despite he could probably took voronev&roskov. Of course it will be easier to do it eventually in 1942.




(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 49
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/20/2017 9:20:26 PM   
Stelteck

 

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So as operation looks others, here some stats :

Industries evacuation were not a huge success. Still i'am not convinced that this level is low enough to really forbid me to rebuilt.



Looses are heavy :



My army did not grew too much until today :



Victory point looks very bad.


(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 50
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/21/2017 7:18:03 PM   
Stelteck

 

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Joined: 7/20/2004
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I SURRENDER !!!!





I started the game with the strategy of defending Leningrad first. But against my opponent tactics to concentrate all panzers in a rush against moscow, it was a loosing strategy. Moscow fall very quickly with a lot of looses.

After that, i could have aimed for the long game by concentrating my troops south to keep a lot of industries and ground where my opponent was weak, but instead i prefered to try an hail marry / all or nothing strategy to protect Leningrad.
I failed in an horrible way. (And it was probably not a realistic plan from the start).

So now not only i lost Leningrad and Moscow, but also i have huge looses (600K more men lost relative to my previous game with Pelton at the same date).
I did not even managed to save industries&ground in the south.

I may be still capable to rebuilt an army (by running a lot in 1942 to avoid looses) and return in the fight in 1943 from the deep caucasus&ural, but the bitter end scenario is unforgiving, moscow/Leningrad upon 3 years will give so much points it would be really hard to return in the race, especially with the south also gone.

So i prefer to surrender. Congratulation for my opponent for this master-full invasion of the soviet union.


(in reply to Stelteck)
Post #: 51
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/21/2017 8:27:23 PM   
MrBlizzard


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Nice AAR even if quite short, your opponent is very talented and axperienced he put in action an amazing blitzkrieg!

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Post #: 52
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/21/2017 9:02:43 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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I want to thank Stelteck for a game well fought. Stelteck wanted to do an AAR from the very beginning which I was against.
So I put in a delaying factor of turn 7 before any posting for a couple of reasons. Even after turn 7 Stelteck still wanted to do an AAR after what happened. So I relented and said if you want to you can but totally not necessary.

I have nothing but good words for Stelteck being a very honorable person. I wish him the best in his futures games. May our paths meet in the future.

Good luck and thank you Stelteck!

_____________________________


(in reply to MrBlizzard)
Post #: 53
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/21/2017 9:07:28 PM   
HardLuckYetAgain


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

I want to thank Stelteck for a game well fought. Stelteck wanted to do an AAR from the very beginning which I was against.
So I put in a delaying factor of turn 7 before any posting for a couple of reasons. Even after turn 7 Stelteck still wanted to do an AAR after what happened. So I relented and said if you want to you can but totally not necessary.

I have nothing but good words for Stelteck being a very honorable person. I wish him the best in his futures games. May our paths meet in the future.

Good luck and thank you Stelteck!


I'm currently real busy doing work & another family emergency :(. I will read through this AAR over the next few days and make comments. Sorry, just too many things going on in my life now.

_____________________________


(in reply to HardLuckYetAgain)
Post #: 54
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/22/2017 12:16:20 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 1431
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: vonik

Very good first turn .
The Germans (almost) succeeded to create 3 (!) concentrical encirclement rings in the South what is quite rare .
If he could really close the third circle, your whole Southern Front in Ukraine would evaporate in 2 turns :)


Creating the 3rd ring in the south is hard, but can be done with some precise movement and unit re-arrangement. BUT, the Soviets can easily open that pocket back up. So instead of closing the last circle it is just as efficient to have that 3rd area surrounded with no where to move to for the Soviets.

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(in reply to vonik)
Post #: 55
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/22/2017 12:22:05 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 1431
Joined: 2/5/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: STEF78

Hardluckyetagain is a very good player. I lost to him in 12 turns.

He went through VK to Moscow and is a master of logistics. You will face HQBU turn after turn.

Good luck.


Your AAR's are "far" superior than my game play Thank you and all other people that take the time to produce these works of art

_____________________________


(in reply to STEF78)
Post #: 56
RE: A small WW2: AAR Stelteck (USSR) Vs HardLuckYetAgai... - 4/22/2017 12:25:42 AM   
HardLuckYetAgain


Posts: 1431
Joined: 2/5/2016
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

In this case it might not hurt to bring your AAR fully up to date. I think you can trust HLYA not to look at your stuff.

You'll need to get a couple MiGs out of Moscow to save half your later IL-2 production if Moscow isn't already surrounded.


Stelteck did an absolutely fabulous job of getting the majority of the industry out of Moscow.

_____________________________


(in reply to M60A3TTS)
Post #: 57
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