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Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/2/2017 9:06:49 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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Okay, I wasn to drop some of these babies, I'm in April of '43, and have about 150+.

I'm doing a night drop, hit the City target and I see the word "mine" in the lower left hand corner, but no option to drop them by clicking or what?

Is there a supply amount minimum by which I can activiate this button?
Base size?

Thanks.
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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/2/2017 9:40:24 PM   
btd64


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Mines can load from any size port as long as the port has the "mine load cost" covered. Depends on port size and naval support. Now this is true for ships and subs, but aircraft may be a little different....GP

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/2/2017 10:03:01 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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And the mine load cost is where or what is it?

Thanks.

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/2/2017 10:44:54 PM   
btd64


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Look in the editor under devices. And then just search for your particular mine....GP

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/2/2017 10:52:34 PM   
rustysi


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Look here, post four. Gee, who started that thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4150761&mpage=1&key=air%2Cdropped%2Cmines�

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/2/2017 11:11:04 PM   
btd64


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Interesting....GP

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/3/2017 2:32:04 PM   
Revthought


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Well, since mine sweeping is really effective AND your opponent (assuming you're playing a human) gets a notification that you've mined their ports, I'm seriously doubting that they can have the same effect on IJ as the real ones did during the war.

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/3/2017 5:21:46 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Look here, post four. Gee, who started that thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4150761&mpage=1&key=air%2Cdropped%2Cmines�


HAHAHA! Still doesn't work. That is why I asked.

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/3/2017 5:22:57 PM   
Rusty1961

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought

Well, since mine sweeping is really effective AND your opponent (assuming you're playing a human) gets a notification that you've mined their ports, I'm seriously doubting that they can have the same effect on IJ as the real ones did during the war.


So the desingers essentially nerfed air-dropped mines. Why bother having it in the game if it isn't nearly as effective as it was historically?


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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/3/2017 6:50:10 PM   
btd64


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This is a game. Sometimes it is hard to make a game duplicate RL. As far as dropping the mines go, Maybe your trying to use non-capable aircraft or some other parameters have not been met. try posting a screen shot of the air unit....GP

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/3/2017 7:31:16 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought

Well, since mine sweeping is really effective AND your opponent (assuming you're playing a human) gets a notification that you've mined their ports, I'm seriously doubting that they can have the same effect on IJ as the real ones did during the war.


I've never seen a ship hit an air-dropped mine. Not once. I've used thousands.

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/3/2017 10:24:26 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought

Well, since mine sweeping is really effective AND your opponent (assuming you're playing a human) gets a notification that you've mined their ports, I'm seriously doubting that they can have the same effect on IJ as the real ones did during the war.


I've never seen a ship hit an air-dropped mine. Not once. I've used thousands.


Then you are not using them right. But you can't use them historically. They are useless in that role.

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/4/2017 12:58:26 AM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought

Well, since mine sweeping is really effective AND your opponent (assuming you're playing a human) gets a notification that you've mined their ports, I'm seriously doubting that they can have the same effect on IJ as the real ones did during the war.


I've never seen a ship hit an air-dropped mine. Not once. I've used thousands.


Then you are not using them right. But you can't use them historically. They are useless in that role.


What is "right?" So far, I've used them at bases my opponent has landed at. Enemy bases I have troops at that my opponent is bombarding. Bases that my opponent is transiting through to bombard another location. Bases my opponent's ships are transiting through (e.g. Bataan) for various reasons.

Not a single hit. Do you have any documented Type 3 or Mk. 13 mine hits? Because I don't. And as I said - thousands, in various situations. The root of the problem is that they are automatically detected so ships just sail on through because of the way minefield detection seems to work (drastic reduction in effectiveness; only new minefields appear to get hits).

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/4/2017 1:53:08 PM   
Revthought


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961
So the desingers essentially nerfed air-dropped mines. Why bother having it in the game if it isn't nearly as effective as it was historically?


Not sure what you mean here, so I am removing my comment. If this is a serious question, it has to do with game balance; and while I appreciate the sim aspects of the game, you need to make some decisions when it comes to game design that help make the game playable for both sides.

If this game was purely historical, nobody would ever want to play the Japanese side.



< Message edited by Revthought -- 4/4/2017 1:56:11 PM >


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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/4/2017 3:08:35 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Revthought

Well, since mine sweeping is really effective AND your opponent (assuming you're playing a human) gets a notification that you've mined their ports, I'm seriously doubting that they can have the same effect on IJ as the real ones did during the war.


I've never seen a ship hit an air-dropped mine. Not once. I've used thousands.


Then you are not using them right. But you can't use them historically. They are useless in that role.


What is "right?" So far, I've used them at bases my opponent has landed at. Enemy bases I have troops at that my opponent is bombarding. Bases that my opponent is transiting through to bombard another location. Bases my opponent's ships are transiting through (e.g. Bataan) for various reasons.

Not a single hit. Do you have any documented Type 3 or Mk. 13 mine hits? Because I don't. And as I said - thousands, in various situations. The root of the problem is that they are automatically detected so ships just sail on through because of the way minefield detection seems to work (drastic reduction in effectiveness; only new minefields appear to get hits).


This does not include another ten or so hits where the ship did not sink or the sunk ships have yet to show up on the intel screen. This is a pbemail campaign. I lay them in multiple single squadron layers at bases close to the action where I can intercept any ASW ships with air or DD attacks. For example, I invaded Pegu and laid extensive air mines at Rangoon and Moulmein to prevent resupply and reinforcement. I use them very close to the action and do not bother laying them at bases where I can not interdict minesweepers. They are not great but I can get results. I will add that I find virtually "all" mines useless vs bombardment hexes. They are only effective when the bombardment TF has to transit a hex in and out to get to the bombardment location. But that is the case with all mines.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by crsutton -- 4/4/2017 3:11:30 PM >


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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/4/2017 5:26:23 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


This does not include another ten or so hits where the ship did not sink or the sunk ships have yet to show up on the intel screen. This is a pbemail campaign. I lay them in multiple single squadron layers at bases close to the action where I can intercept any ASW ships with air or DD attacks. For example, I invaded Pegu and laid extensive air mines at Rangoon and Moulmein to prevent resupply and reinforcement. I use them very close to the action and do not bother laying them at bases where I can not interdict minesweepers. They are not great but I can get results. I will add that I find virtually "all" mines useless vs bombardment hexes. They are only effective when the bombardment TF has to transit a hex in and out to get to the bombardment location. But that is the case with all mines.



I guess I don't see how this addresses Loka's comment that the opponent can see them as soon as they're dropped, if he pays attention to the CR. The mission is specified. I understand you interdict minesweepers, but to get hits your opponent still has to oblige you by driving into a known minefield.

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 2:18:35 AM   
Rusty1961

 

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The problem is that I'm in April of '43, have about 150+ mines for airdropping and the "mine" button on the City bombing screen doesn't do anything when I click.

I have over 100,000 supply at a level 7 airbase and I'm talking about B-24D1s.

Thanks!

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 11:20:15 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961

The problem is that I'm in April of '43, have about 150+ mines for airdropping and the "mine" button on the City bombing screen doesn't do anything when I click.

I have over 100,000 supply at a level 7 airbase and I'm talking about B-24D1s.

Thanks!


If it's switchology all you do is select the unit, press City attack, press the Mine button, click on the target name. Press Done. You will go back to the unit screen and it will say "Mining port" on the mission line. Double check your Range settings and make sure the target is in the set range.

Given that each B-24 carries multiple mines, you may not have enough in inventory yet to do a mission with a fleshed-out B-24 squadron.

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 1:52:58 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


This does not include another ten or so hits where the ship did not sink or the sunk ships have yet to show up on the intel screen. This is a pbemail campaign. I lay them in multiple single squadron layers at bases close to the action where I can intercept any ASW ships with air or DD attacks. For example, I invaded Pegu and laid extensive air mines at Rangoon and Moulmein to prevent resupply and reinforcement. I use them very close to the action and do not bother laying them at bases where I can not interdict minesweepers. They are not great but I can get results. I will add that I find virtually "all" mines useless vs bombardment hexes. They are only effective when the bombardment TF has to transit a hex in and out to get to the bombardment location. But that is the case with all mines.



I guess I don't see how this addresses Loka's comment that the opponent can see them as soon as they're dropped, if he pays attention to the CR. The mission is specified. I understand you interdict minesweepers, but to get hits your opponent still has to oblige you by driving into a known minefield.


It does not. However, it does address his comments about the mines never working. My comment was that you just have to use them in a certain manner and my graphic and remarks support what I said. That is all. In AE, you play the hand that you are dealt. The MK13 mine goes into places where there is a high chance the enemy just has to move into. Usually, at the point of attack where there is a need for him to reinforce or resupply. I save them for this purpose and then drop a hell of a lot of them. Using them in most other manners is just throwing them away for the very reason that Loka gives-that is, they are immediately known. They are not great but what else in the game does not work in the manner that it should?

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 2:36:26 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


This does not include another ten or so hits where the ship did not sink or the sunk ships have yet to show up on the intel screen. This is a pbemail campaign. I lay them in multiple single squadron layers at bases close to the action where I can intercept any ASW ships with air or DD attacks. For example, I invaded Pegu and laid extensive air mines at Rangoon and Moulmein to prevent resupply and reinforcement. I use them very close to the action and do not bother laying them at bases where I can not interdict minesweepers. They are not great but I can get results. I will add that I find virtually "all" mines useless vs bombardment hexes. They are only effective when the bombardment TF has to transit a hex in and out to get to the bombardment location. But that is the case with all mines.



I guess I don't see how this addresses Loka's comment that the opponent can see them as soon as they're dropped, if he pays attention to the CR. The mission is specified. I understand you interdict minesweepers, but to get hits your opponent still has to oblige you by driving into a known minefield.


It does not. However, it does address his comments about the mines never working. My comment was that you just have to use them in a certain manner and my graphic and remarks support what I said. That is all. In AE, you play the hand that you are dealt. The MK13 mine goes into places where there is a high chance the enemy just has to move into. Usually, at the point of attack where there is a need for him to reinforce or resupply. I save them for this purpose and then drop a hell of a lot of them. Using them in most other manners is just throwing them away for the very reason that Loka gives-that is, they are immediately known. They are not great but what else in the game does not work in the manner that it should?


I think we're making different points, but I'll leave it.

Edit: I note that your air-dropped mine sinkings are not resupply vessels. He drove into them with combatants.

< Message edited by Bullwinkle58 -- 4/5/2017 2:40:10 PM >


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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 3:29:36 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton


This does not include another ten or so hits where the ship did not sink or the sunk ships have yet to show up on the intel screen. This is a pbemail campaign. I lay them in multiple single squadron layers at bases close to the action where I can intercept any ASW ships with air or DD attacks. For example, I invaded Pegu and laid extensive air mines at Rangoon and Moulmein to prevent resupply and reinforcement. I use them very close to the action and do not bother laying them at bases where I can not interdict minesweepers. They are not great but I can get results. I will add that I find virtually "all" mines useless vs bombardment hexes. They are only effective when the bombardment TF has to transit a hex in and out to get to the bombardment location. But that is the case with all mines.



I guess I don't see how this addresses Loka's comment that the opponent can see them as soon as they're dropped, if he pays attention to the CR. The mission is specified. I understand you interdict minesweepers, but to get hits your opponent still has to oblige you by driving into a known minefield.


I mean, I guess it proves that ships can still hit those mines even if the ships know they are there, which is really what I was talking about.

There is that other layer where your opponent has to order ships to go through the minefield, too.

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 5:41:59 PM   
Dili

 

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Anyone tried to air drop mines from Japanese side?

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 5:56:23 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Anyone tried to air drop mines from Japanese side?


Yes, my experience is the same with both.

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 6:14:30 PM   
Alpha77

 

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Well in late game you probably get a lot of reports and intel etc. perhaps it is easy to overlook the mine message and if luck (for the miners) has it the enemy plots a move right through the mine hex...nobody is perfect.

@ Dili, in fact I read part of Mike Sollis AAR ("into the breach" ?) and he got the mines to work on the IJ side, but apparently hit nothing (iirc). Laid with Helens at 5k iirc. But he also said the mine supply is very small so more a play with thing like mini subs (ie not really effective)

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 6:38:16 PM   
Dili

 

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Thanks. Anyone remembers the Japanese air mine model? to increase the production.

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 6:55:13 PM   
Alpha77

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

Thanks. Anyone remembers the Japanese air mine model? to increase the production.


You cant, mines supply is fixed, but they appear in 43 (with 30/month iirc and it is type3 as another poster above said)

< Message edited by Alpha77 -- 4/5/2017 6:56:32 PM >

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 7:30:28 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alpha77

Well in late game you probably get a lot of reports and intel etc. perhaps it is easy to overlook the mine message and if luck (for the miners) has it the enemy plots a move right through the mine hex...nobody is perfect.

@ Dili, in fact I read part of Mike Sollis AAR ("into the breach" ?) and he got the mines to work on the IJ side, but apparently hit nothing (iirc). Laid with Helens at 5k iirc. But he also said the mine supply is very small so more a play with thing like mini subs (ie not really effective)


Minisubs are almost always detrimental to Japan. 4 VPs for each chance at a miracle shot. Not exactly a great trade.

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 7:40:01 PM   
Dili

 

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So no editor?

I see two type 3 mines in editor

122 slot with no production with 66 in pool very low penetration.
1713 slot with 30 production date 4212.



For allies Mk 13

130 slot 44 build rate from start also very low penetration.
1652 slot 115 build rate start 4212


Strange how penetration is so low for earlier versions.


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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 10:21:34 PM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rusty1961


quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

Look here, post four. Gee, who started that thread.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4150761&mpage=1&key=air%2Cdropped%2Cmines�


HAHAHA! Still doesn't work. That is why I asked.


Was not aware of that, never went into '43 before. This game for sure though as I need to see if my techniques work throughout the game.


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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: Air Dropped Mines???? - 4/5/2017 10:33:10 PM   
rustysi


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I know that defensive mines are not that effective as well, especially once detected, but can air dropped mines be used in this manner? I would imagine they would not be detected if used defensively especially at rear area bases. Anyone know?

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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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