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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A)

 
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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 5/20/2017 7:41:00 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Good luck and enjoy, looking forward to the action.



According to Loka, he's considering a video AAR of his side, so even more to look forward to!

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 7/20/2017 12:44:57 PM   
mind_messing

 

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@ Pax,

Your PM inbox is full, but I'll be AAR'ing along side Loka's video format.

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 7/23/2017 10:20:34 PM   
mind_messing

 

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December 8th, 1941

Well, the second day of the war goes well for Japan.

Pearl Harbor

So, I listened to Bullwinkle.

Based on the replay and the CR from the damage to ships in Pearl, I've decided to stick about. Sunk ships are VP's, and PH is one of the biggest concentrations on the map at this point. So I'm going to smash it.

Dec 8th was all about sweeps today, and the Zeros did a great job against Allied CAP all over the map.



It was a nice cluster of kills to the KB's fighter squadrons.

As per recon, Allied fighter strength is pretty diminished at Pearl, so we're going for Day 3. The KB is going to duke to the North-East of Niihau, 6 hexes from Pearl, and strike the port again. Kate's and Val's will both be going in at 8K to avoid flak, though I'll keep two squadrons of Val's on naval attack in case Loka sends and DD squadrons out on the off chance of a surface engagement.

Sub floatplanes are reconing the port day and night to drive DL up for the strike tomorrow.

Luzon

Sweeps here do well also. Troops are moving ashore.

Hong Kong

The RN DD's from Hong Kong get bounced about by a IJN surface force, and Netties from Formosa sink two. One left, which should be swept up tomorrow.

Malaya

Nothing untoward here. Usual round of airstrikes and troop landings.

China

I attempt a swift paratrooper attack on Kweilin to break the rail-line in South China, hopefully causing some dislocation in Chinese movements here. The first attack doesn't exactly overwhelm the defenders, but I think that follow-on landings might be enough to beat back the Chinese engineers. I have a regiment on standby to fly in once we take the base.



Selected units are en-route to China from Manchuria, and general offensive operations should start rolling shortly.


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Post #: 63
RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 7/23/2017 10:58:05 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

... Sunk ships are VP's ...

Permanent ones, the only ones I actually count.

_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 64
RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 7/25/2017 6:21:29 PM   
mind_messing

 

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Training Regime - IJN

So I've got the Dec 9th turn, and plotting is underway. I'm starting the process of resizing the IJNAF units as I did last game. However, this time, I'll be doing something different than my last game. The focus for me last game was to maximize the number of aircraft in frontline service.

While this was a major factor in prolonging the Allied advance, I suspect that it was flawed, for two reasons:
- The excess of combat planes above and beyond the historical OOB led to an unavoidable diminished pilot quality.
- The increased numbers of aircraft used provided scope for Allied pilots to build their experience up to absurd levels from easy kills of unescorted bombers and the like.

This time I'll take a different approach, and attempt to maximize pilot quality without giving the Allied pilots too much of a free shot. To that end, I'm still going to maximize everything as far as I can, but the deployment will different significantly.

IJN Floatplanes/Recon

The simplest component is the floatplane arm of the IJN. The training regime there will be NavS and ASW to

Several squadrons will train NavS and Recon for use on the IJN's capital ships and on land-based recon planes, which should provide enough to last through the war. I'm not convinced that the ship-based floatplanes should perform ASW.

Using floatplane pilots in recon planes will result in an EXP hit, but I think that's a price worth paying for streamlining the training.

If practical, I might stick a couple of resized floatplane squadrons on the Chinese coastal bases to drop their hand grenades on Chinese bases to help build experience.

IJN Fighters

Most IJN fighter squadrons using the Zero can be resized to size 81, and divided into 27 plane components. Whereas previously I used all three detachments in combat, I'm going to try to keep the absolute best for the front lines.

I envision my IJN training program as follows:

- There will be dedicated squadrons in the Home Islands training pilots up to a reasonable standard (50 EXP, 70 Air/Def).

- The /C detachment of a unit will be sent to China, and draw the trained pilots in to build EXP in milk-run attacks on Chinese units. Pilots graduate from the /C detachment after they reach the 65 EXP threshold.

- The /B detachment of a unit will perform defensive CAP or second-line duties in the combat zone. Pilots who build EXP up into the 70's will be eligible to move to the /A detachment.

- The /A detachment will form the best pilots and be used exclusively on the frontline for offensive operations. Exceptional pilots will be rotated to TRACOM, to be used in night fighter squadrons at a future date.

The overall goal, simply, is to make sure that my pilots have decent EXP levels long before they ever have to face an Allied aircraft.

IJN 1E Torpedo Bombers

The main skills here are NavB and NavT, so pilots will be trained to a respectable standard (50 EXP, 70 NavB, 70 NavT) before being shifted off to dedicated squadrons positioned in China to build their EXP levels doing ground bombing missions.

I likely won't break up torpedo squadrons into their component parts, but simply have a few squadrons posted to China and rotate pilots through as needed.

Once pilots reach a decent EXP threshold of 70 or so EXP, I'll pull them out of China for use in combat operations in the Pacific. Ideally, I want all my one-engine torpedo squadrons in the Pacific to be skilled enough to make night-time attacks practical.

IJN Dive Bombers

The exact same as the one-engine torpedo bombers, except instead of NavB and NavT, I'll train NavB and LowNav and siphon some off for kami squadrons before the mass production of LowNav pilots begins.

IJN 2E Bombers

This is the thorn, as a pretty extensive skill-set is needed to use these airframes to the best of their ability. To that end, I intend to treat the pilots like the princesses they are.

I will keep one squadron deployed in China, draw in pilots who graduate from the basic single-engine torpedo bomber school (ie, 50 EXP, 70 NavB, 70 NavT) and train them up on ground bombing of Chinese units as is the norm to about the 70 EXP mark, before sending them out into the 2E squadrons to learn NavS during the downtime when they're not needed on anti-shipping missions.

This should get reasonably well-rounded pilots with high EXP levels, and I intend to avoid using the IJN 2E bombers for ground or port attack missions as I feel that they're really not suited for that role.

As with the 1E torpedo bombers, I want these guys to have high enough EXP that night-time anti-shipping attacks can be a possibility.

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 7/25/2017 6:42:57 PM   
mind_messing

 

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Training Regime - IJA

The IJA is a bit different, as there's not much scope to expand the IJA by resizing until later in the war, and even then it's limited to the level bombers and often has a PP cost.

IJA Recon

IJA recon will train NavS and Recon, which is the best way of rectifying the IJN's lack of decent search assets.

IJA Fighter

Similar to the IJN regime, IJA fighter pilots, after graduating basic fighter school (ie, 50 EXP, 70 Air/Def) will do a stint in China strafing Chinese troops to build experience up to decent levels (65+ EXP, given the greater number of IJA squadrons) before being sent off to frontline squadrons.

From the frontline, the 80+ EXP pilots will be rotated back into TRACOM and stored up for the night fighter squadrons and late-war planes.

IJA Fighter-bomber

I plan to use a fair few fighter bomber squadrons, so I'll need to plan accordingly. I'll use my fighter-bombers as a hybrid fighter/anti-shipping platform. To that end, the basic training will be LowNav and Escort until pilots are at 50 EXP and 70/70 skill.

After that, the usual stint in China to build EXP strafing defenseless Chinese troops until EXP reaches 70, then off to a frontline squadron.

IJA Bomber

This is comparatively simple. The majority of pilots will train LowNav and GrdB to the usual standard of 70 skill points, then off to China for some bombing till EXP reaches 65 or so, and then on to the frontlines.

I'm training LowNav to get some mileage out of these planes by using them at low attitude against Allied shipping, and to put level bomber pilots in the reserve for when kami's role around.

Once the Peggy arrives, I'll shift the GrdB to NavT, as by that point there's so much flak as to make ground bombing generally worthless.

The exceptions will be for pilots flying the Lily DB, who will train NavB and Grnd, and ASW pilots, who will train ASW to 70 before doing their stint in China.

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 7/25/2017 9:30:53 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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Based on some recent threads in the forum I have been focusing on Defense skill in all of my pilots to a much greater extent than ever before. I always tried to get some of it as a side-effect of Sweep training, but I've been doing 100 ft. Strafe training with everything that can do that and it has made a material difference in my dogfights between Jugs and Frank r and Corsairs and Franks as well.

I have complained to Loka several times about the crappy results I've gotten fighting his high-altitude sweeping with Franks and his comment has usually been "MM didn't get the kind of results I'm getting as Japan." I suspect it is because Loka pays attention to Defense. I wish I had a lot earlier.

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 7/25/2017 9:41:44 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

Based on some recent threads in the forum I have been focusing on Defense skill in all of my pilots to a much greater extent than ever before. I always tried to get some of it as a side-effect of Sweep training, but I've been doing 100 ft. Strafe training with everything that can do that and it has made a material difference in my dogfights between Jugs and Frank r and Corsairs and Franks as well.

I have complained to Loka several times about the crappy results I've gotten fighting his high-altitude sweeping with Franks and his comment has usually been "MM didn't get the kind of results I'm getting as Japan." I suspect it is because Loka pays attention to Defense. I wish I had a lot earlier.


Your comments are welcome as always Bull! Your advice regarding striking Pearl worked magically, and I'll report the results shortly.

Yeah, Defense had been the secondary skill in my playbook until now. If it was in the 60's, great, get the pilot in a plane and out fighting. In retrospect it was a big mistake - it's a short-term benefit but in the long-term kills off your pilots and (more importantly) makes the enemy pilots much better.

For me it's a pretty big shift in thinking and playing. I'd previously throw a couple hundred pilots into combat wholesale expecting that a few would come out the other end reasonably competent. That's not how the game works. Now I'm taking it to the other extreme and trying to pull off what I can only describe as mass-production of elite pilots. China is going to be the factory for me to do so.

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 7/26/2017 12:33:15 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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I have to hang my head and say a Defense in the 60s was very rare for me in past months. I sent a lot in with D. in the 30s if Air and EXP were good. Just discounted it. Lessons, lessons.

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 7/26/2017 4:26:19 AM   
PaxMondo


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MM - conceptually a very similar training regime to what I use ... minor differences in roles and thresholds, but the concept is very much the same. night nav works at exp >70. when exp>80, you will see really effective results.

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 7/26/2017 9:46:01 AM   
Yakface


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Training regime looks good. One suggestion: use your float plane squadrons to train fighter/bomber pilots.

Japan has around 30 float plane units at start that can be resized to 24 planes (not counting all the single/2 plane units on CL/CA/BB). Pilots train just as effectively in these as a Claude or a Zero. Not quite as effective for IJN bombers as they can't train to use torpedoes, but you can get all the other skills to 70 and then transfer to a Nell squadron to add that final skill. You can even get xp to 70 by leaving them on 100% cap/0 range for a time.

Takes 3-4 months to get a fighter pilot from raw recruit to 70 air/def/xp. They won't even take a hit when transferred to a different plane so long as you pull them in the right way.

This will mean you can keep more IJN fighter/bomber units for operations rather than training. Which will take the pressure off your IJA units which are more in need of training in the early war.

< Message edited by Yakface -- 7/26/2017 9:47:28 AM >

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 7/27/2017 1:22:29 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

I have to hang my head and say a Defense in the 60s was very rare for me in past months. I sent a lot in with D. in the 30s if Air and EXP were good. Just discounted it. Lessons, lessons.


Yeah, it's been a hard learned lesson for me also. It makes sense, however. Higher defence should mean the pilots live to build their EXP and skills more.

The real risk, I feel, is the unavoidable unescorted strikes that chew pilots and planes up en-masse. There's not much you can do to avoid those other than what limited precautionary measures you can.


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

MM - conceptually a very similar training regime to what I use ... minor differences in roles and thresholds, but the concept is very much the same. night nav works at exp >70. when exp>80, you will see really effective results.


Fully utilising night time attacks is something I really want to do. I'm swinging to the opinion that using the IJN 2E's for night attacks alone might be the single best use for them.



quote:

ORIGINAL: Yakface

Training regime looks good. One suggestion: use your float plane squadrons to train fighter/bomber pilots.

Japan has around 30 float plane units at start that can be resized to 24 planes (not counting all the single/2 plane units on CL/CA/BB). Pilots train just as effectively in these as a Claude or a Zero. Not quite as effective for IJN bombers as they can't train to use torpedoes, but you can get all the other skills to 70 and then transfer to a Nell squadron to add that final skill. You can even get xp to 70 by leaving them on 100% cap/0 range for a time.

Takes 3-4 months to get a fighter pilot from raw recruit to 70 air/def/xp. They won't even take a hit when transferred to a different plane so long as you pull them in the right way.

This will mean you can keep more IJN fighter/bomber units for operations rather than training. Which will take the pressure off your IJA units which are more in need of training in the early war.


Yeah, thats a good point. In my previous game I had a glut of IJN ASW/Search FP pilots.

In this game, once I've a reasonable pool of NavS/ASW pilots, I'll swing the floatplanes on to something else.

Not really sure what. Maybe fighter or NavB pilots. After 1943 I'll swing the floatplanes in to churn out LowNav en masse for kami use.

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 7/27/2017 1:51:54 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing
Fully utilising night time attacks is something I really want to do. I'm swinging to the opinion that using the IJN 2E's for night attacks alone might be the single best use for them.

+1

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/12/2017 4:50:21 PM   
mind_messing

 

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Dec 9th to Dec 14th, 1941

Mixed progress in the first week of the war.

North Pacific

In the process of getting floatplane pickets set up in this area, but I'm hampered by a shortage of suitable AV-style ships or aviation support.

Debating sending a fast transport to flip the Aleutians and an AV for longer eyes but currently nothing is available so its a moot point.

China

Nothing out of the ordinary here, with the out of position Chinese units getting whacked. I do get burned at the Ichang sailent, with Chinese units routing the IJA garrison here, but the situation is otherwise stable.

I've a two-pronged advance going on towards Changsha and Sian, with a third IJA force collecting itself at Canton to march northwards in the next week or so.

The paratrooper attack on Kweilin has stalemated, but it seems the local reserves are being commited to crush the Japanese paratroopers, which should work in my favor.

Luzon

Allied air power has vanished from Luzon, so IJN Zeros are moving out and the shorter IJA planes are replacing them to suppress Clark.

IJA units are clearing up the island and preparing for the siege of Clark.

Minadano

We're ashore at Davao, and will start clearing the Americans out.

There's a big naval engagement to the south-west of Davao, as Force Z sorties to disrupt the landings. They catch the Mini-KB out of position, and a surface engagement with IJN fast battleships isn't exactly encouraging.

quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Gorontalo at 72,95, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo, Shell hits 1
BB Haruna, Shell hits 15, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Takao
CA Atago
DD Asashio, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Oshio
DD Arashio
DD Akatsuki, Shell hits 1
DD Hibiki

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 3
BC Repulse, Shell hits 5
CL Danae, Shell hits 5, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Dragon, Shell hits 1
CL Durban, Shell hits 4, on fire
CL Boise
DD Tenedos
DD Electra, Shell hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Express, Shell hits 1


The Durban is promptly torpedoed by an IJN sub, but it's a bad trade all round. The reinforced Mini-KB and some slow battleships are grouping at Babeldoab to shield further moves in this region.

Malaya

Usual advances down the Malay peninsula, but two Indian brigades will be trapped and destroyed in Georgetown, which is a bonus.

The CL Mauritius and two RN DD's catch a convoy off Miri and sinks the lot. IJN 2E bombers fail to sink her.

Central Pacific

KB is swinging past Wake to support the landing here in a day or two.

A horde of USN CA's and DD's in the Lower Gilberts sink one of the AMC raiders and catch a few insignificant invasion convoys, and the remaining IJN convoys in the region will run for the hills.

South-West Pacific

The Australian cruiser Adelaide sinks an invasion convoy off Kaiving. While the IJN's Yubari and two DD's intercept her shortly afterwards, they fail to sink her, leaving her to run to port with some moderate battle damage.

More combat ships are en-route to this theatre from other regions.

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/12/2017 9:47:50 PM   
Bif1961


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Given that you had 2 Heavy Cruisers along with your two BCs and more destroyers I can understand you feelings of disappointment. Maybe his radar made the difference as the PoW had good radar for 1941.

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/13/2017 5:57:38 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bif1961

Given that you had 2 Heavy Cruisers along with your two BCs and more destroyers I can understand you feelings of disappointment. Maybe his radar made the difference as the PoW had good radar for 1941.


Indeed. Might even be worth the historical first turn to kill off Force Z to be honest.

I also had a heavy cruiser get whacked by Force Z en-route to concentrate with the battleship force, but the fundamental mistake was not having the Mini-KB concentrated and in the region.

I tend to always make an early mistake like this, and it's normally due to trying to force the pace in the early game.

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/14/2017 2:54:39 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I tend to always make an early mistake like this, and it's normally due to trying to force the pace in the early game.

This would apply to 99% of the JFB's 99% of the time.

100% for me.



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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/14/2017 3:54:57 AM   
Lowpe

 

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I have long felt that sacrificing a lot of the Pearl Raid would be justified if you could positively sink POW and Repulse.

You are lucky you weren't more heavily damaged, overall your force fought very well I think.

Was the weather clear? I have found that the ABDA navy really performs well in good weather early on...that you landed torps on two ships makes me think you got rather close.

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RE: Rematch: Ragnarök - mind_messing (J) vs Lokasenna (A) - 9/28/2017 1:49:06 PM   
mind_messing

 

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Dec 15th and 16th, 1941

Fairly quiet turns as December goes.

Central Pacific

Japanese troops take Wake Island with the KB in support. A USN sub gets the Hiryu in it's sights but misses. KB en-route back to Truk to refuel and escort the New Caledonia and Fiji invasion forces.

South-West Pacific

Allied surface action group kills off another small Japanese invasion force off Luganville. Loka has been dilligent in stamping out as many of these small invasion forces as he can, but i've plenty more slipping through the cracks.

Units are en-route to sweep the Allies out of New Britain shortly.

Philippines

Allies are in the process of retreating back to Clark, and routine air bombardment is ongoing.

DEI

The Mini-KB is forming up along with several surface action groups to support the invasion of Manado. Part of me is hoping that Force Z makes another appearance, but I have the impression that they've scarpered.

Another ABDA force flagged by the CA Houston appears off Miri and tangles with a IJN destroyer group flagged by a CL. The engagement is pretty inconclusive, with two USN DD's damaged in return for one IJN DD damagaed, but the IJN takes the credit for keeping the Allies away from Miri's oil. Sadly the IJN 2E's in Malaya and Vietnam don't sortie, but c'est la guerre.

Malaya

We're still in the slow stage of exploiting the landings here, but we should be on the good roads within a week.

China

Ten days in and we're still in the "moving units around" phase, but the initial offensive actions are underway. A more detailed update to follow here.

Burma

The air war bursts over Burma when the best and brightest of both the IJN and IJA fighter cadres sweep RAF units over Rangoon to death. 16 Buffalo's shot down with no reported Japanese losses is a excellent result. I won't follow this attack up, and instead i'm pulling the groups back on to rest in preparation for the DEI campaign.

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Christmas Update - 10/28/2017 9:50:34 PM   
mind_messing

 

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December 17th to December 25th, 1941

The war has been making its natural progression for the early game without much in the way of interesting action.

China

We're on track here. I've a small tank element probing down the road to Sian while the infantry moves up from the railhead. Singyang needs cleared to open up the Central front, at which point several divisions and most of the Manchurian artillery will be railed up to crank Changsha.

In the south, I'm trying to form a respectable stack around Wuchow to put pressure on the southern end of the Chinese lines.

Lots of air strikes on my part here, pretty much everything that flies, including floatplanes. I've bulked up the aviation support with AV's at the riverside bases and I'm flying resized floatplane squadrons on ground attack missions. Not a huge impact, but every little helps.



Malaya

I'm playing it slow and steady here, and we're making good progress down towards Singapore. Forts might be high, as I've not risked bombing the airbase in Singapore (due to the flak losses), but I've pulled a few divisions normally earmarked for other conquests to Malaya to help expedite the process here.



Once Singapore is in Japanese hands we'll consider the invasion of Java, followed by Sumatra. I'm taking no chances with the oil being bombed if it can be at all avoided.

DEI

Currently the advance is halted here until Manado is sized for the Empire. After this, I'll swing past Ternate, Ambon, Makassar and Timor before pushing Balikipapan.

Mini-KB is kicking around off Minadano in case the ABDA forces come out to play, but there's been no sign of them since the last engagement that cost the IJN a fast BB. Likely the ABDA heavy elements have pulled back to a bigger port to rearm, so we will need to see.



Solomons

Rabual has fallen, and we've moving to sweep up the rest of the bases in this region. We've got ships moving to take troops from Rabual to Port Moresby and drive the Allies back to Austraila as well as sweep right down the Solomons chain.

The KB is moving with the AO's to escort the Grds. Mixed Brigade to take Noumea, and there's a division sitting at Truk earmarked for Suva...



South Pacific

...which is already becoming an interesting theater. I've the inclination that my gaggle of single ship amphib forces taking unoccupied hexes has Loka sending units to this region, as the KB is due to swing by in a week or two and clear the region. Once Noumea is occupied, I'll move on to Fiji and clear that island as well.

I want to avoid major troop commitments to this region, so once the region is secured I'll set up a few floatplane stations, stock Fiji with naval guards and leave it as the 1942 breakwater for this region.

That's the plan anyways...


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