Medium guns as low level DP?

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Dili
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Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by Dili »

I wonder if anyone tested 5", 6" inch naval as DP guns but with a very low altitude to be able to hit torpedo bombers and other low level aircraft. Maybe even the 18" of Yamato trying to simulate the AA rounds it had.
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MakeeLearn
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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by MakeeLearn »

even the 18" of Yamato trying to simulate the AA rounds it had.


Historical it had "Beehive" rounds. Is this modeled in game?






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rustysi
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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by rustysi »

Historical it had "Beehive" rounds. Is this modeled in game?

Its bad enough the Japanese rockets are in the game. Historically these were wholly ineffective ('beehive' rounds) and IMO were so useless that even an attempt to code them in would be a waste of time and resources.
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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by cardas »

You also run the problem of potentially using up your main gun ammo on AA defense, most of which would be useless if we go by how effective it seems to have been in real life. I don't think you would appreciate trying to interdict enemy cargo ships only to find out that your raiding cruiser force evades combat due to low ammo levels.
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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by Dili »

That's a good point cardas. How much are the secondary artillery of battleships employed for naval combat? New US Battleships have only DP guns as secondary. I have to check if the 155mm guns in Yamato were employed for AA.
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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn
even the 18" of Yamato trying to simulate the AA rounds it had.


Historical it had "Beehive" rounds. Is this modeled in game?

I doubt it. They did not work anyways. And were very hard on the barrel linings. Really no need to have them in the game.
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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by Buckrock »

ORIGINAL: Dili

That's a good point cardas. How much are the secondary artillery of battleships employed for naval combat? New US Battleships have only DP guns as secondary. I have to check if the 155mm guns in Yamato were employed for AA.
The Yamato's 6.1" wasn't a viable DP (despite being originally designed as such) but could be used to conduct the largely ineffective "splash" defence vs torpedo bombers, just like any other medium or large caliber naval gun.

But in the Pacific War, on the those occasions larger caliber guns of either side were used against aircraft, the firing during an air attack rarely consisted of more than one or two salvoes from a vessel (and normally not all main gun turrets were involved) before firing would cease so as not to interfere with the shorter ranged and much more effective conventional AA weapons. So few main battery shells would normally be expended in dealing with even a major air attack that it probably shouldn't even register on the ammo count of an AE cruiser or battleship.

It was considered historically to have little effect on an attack and few shells would be expended, so you might as well just pretend it's happening in the game now.
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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by geoffreyg »

I have made a similar point to this post in another thread but it strikes me it is probably more relevant here. According to LaCroix and Wells the Agano's twin 15cm guns have an elevation of 55 deg (despite being a 1912 model) which presumably is why they are shown as having a ceiling in tracker (unlike the vast majority of naval guns) although their apparent effective rate of fire of 6 rounds per minute is presumably why they are not classed as DP.

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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by Dili »

Probably, and i agree about Yamato main guns, was more just for the heck of it.
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rustysi
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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by rustysi »

I have to check if the 155mm guns in Yamato were employed for AA.

In a game upgrade many of these are removed and replaced by 12.7cm DP guns. If that is historical I doubt the 155mm were used as and/or were effective AAA.
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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by dr.hal »

The Yamato class 460 mm guns did have an "AA" round, but it would ruin the tube if used. The Japanese had only a few spare tubes for that gun, so a decision to use it was a last resort and I believe the Musashi was the only one to fire a few and that was done as she was going down.
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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by wdolson »

And when the Musashi did use the rounds, they had no noticeable effect at all. They fired at a torpedo run and the Avengers kept coming in like nothing had happened. I've never read anything about the Avenger crews on the receiving end.

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Dili
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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by Dili »

Friedman say that the aircraft crews found the AA rounds were surprisingly accurate when fired at 20-30km distance but they didn't got any damage.
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RE: Medium guns as low level DP?

Post by Buckrock »

ORIGINAL: geoffreyg

I have made a similar point to this post in another thread but it strikes me it is probably more relevant here. According to LaCroix and Wells the Agano's twin 15cm guns have an elevation of 55 deg (despite being a 1912 model) which presumably is why they are shown as having a ceiling in tracker (unlike the vast majority of naval guns) although their apparent effective rate of fire of 6 rounds per minute is presumably why they are not classed as DP.

According to the "Naval Weapons" website, the Yamato's 6.1" turret also had a 55 deg elevation, giving the gun a theoretical maximum altitude of almost 40,000ft if used for long range AA (which IIRC was attempted by the Musashi at the Battle of Sibuyan Sea against the opening US strike while they were still many miles away at medium altitude).

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