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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/16/2018 2:29:03 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo




I beleive this accurate. Even if he had been prepared for the incursion (which he wasn't), it was too soon. Maybe, and it really is a maybe, IJ could take on the bear in mid-42 successfully. Never been done n a PBEM that I know of, so we have no evidence. I think it would be extremely difficult to pull off against a competent allied player, but maybe.
Maybe if you got CK early and then turned tot he bear, maybe. Clearly, if you take both China and SOV out of the game early, then '45 looks completely different.



NJP has done some work here (scen 2), in activating the Bear...Japan simply doesn't have the infrastructure to launch an early attack on the Bear, and Japan desperately needs to inflict substantial losses in the SRA and Burma and China before any attack.

Since this is a scenario one style game well enough said there.

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/17/2018 10:08:15 AM   
PaxMondo


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Lost 2 attempts, will try again later.

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/17/2018 3:06:04 PM   
GetAssista

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Maybe if you got CK early and then turned tot he bear, maybe. Clearly, if you take both China and SOV out of the game early, then '45 looks completely different.

Only after CK taking, cause Japan would really need all the Chinese divisions to bottle up Soviets in the Vlad pocket and also restrict the Mongolia/Blagoveschensk groups. Soviets are the most potent Allied ground force up to maybe 44, and their artillery is simply the best. They can chew through a lot of stuff when concentrated. Goes without saying that timing to cut all the border RRs at start is also essential

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/18/2018 12:57:39 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: GetAssista

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
Maybe if you got CK early and then turned tot he bear, maybe. Clearly, if you take both China and SOV out of the game early, then '45 looks completely different.

Only after CK taking, cause Japan would really need all the Chinese divisions to bottle up Soviets in the Vlad pocket and also restrict the Mongolia/Blagoveschensk groups. Soviets are the most potent Allied ground force up to maybe 44, and their artillery is simply the best. They can chew through a lot of stuff when concentrated. Goes without saying that timing to cut all the border RRs at start is also essential

Exactly.
IJ Air force will be the determinant, it has to negate the SOV arty.
I have little doubt that tactically, this is achievable (taking the SOV out of the game like the CHI). BUT strategically will it work?
The supply cost is going to be enormous. The supply cost for CHI is already a huge burden on IJ. This is what will determine if this really works or not.

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/18/2018 1:17:10 PM   
ITAKLinus

 

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Of course it doesn't


Urss can be a funny campaign but it doesn't provide precious oil to the jap.

What's even worse is that everything has a cost opportunity in this game and attacking Russia I think it's the very worse ration someone could achieve

India is, by far, the best place a Japanese can conquer. Economically speaking it's a sort of heaven, but it's horribly hard to capture.

Australia is the second best with respect to India. It doesn't provide huge economic strategic benefits but it's relatively easy to conquer.


Russia is terribly hard to capture and it doesn't provide economical benefits, so... what are we talking about?


Regarding China I am currently pursuing a different path. I have conquered everything out of CK plains and I am defending q line roughly at Kweyiang.
It much cheaper than attacking CK plains and it provides almost the same benefits.

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Francesco

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/18/2018 2:26:38 PM   
adarbrauner

 

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Well actually in "my" mod Russian Siberian locations shall receive a very great boost of VP points, to try simulating the huge strategical and political effect of a successful Japanese intervention in the Russian war, and to make the endeavor more palatable and rewarding for the Japanese player;

however, I still hardly think I would take on Russia; all the resources and reserves, of the Army in particular, are needed to
try
winning the Western Allies (yes...believe it...yeah...);

but still... if and when the stalemate is reached in the Pacific and Indian Ocean...so I may think to use aptly the Manchurian army to try turning things to the Axis side, globally ;

< Message edited by adarbrauner -- 10/18/2018 2:29:28 PM >

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/19/2018 1:29:57 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus

Of course it doesn't


Urss can be a funny campaign but it doesn't provide precious oil to the jap.

What's even worse is that everything has a cost opportunity in this game and attacking Russia I think it's the very worse ration someone could achieve

India is, by far, the best place a Japanese can conquer. Economically speaking it's a sort of heaven, but it's horribly hard to capture.

Australia is the second best with respect to India. It doesn't provide huge economic strategic benefits but it's relatively easy to conquer.


Russia is terribly hard to capture and it doesn't provide economical benefits, so... what are we talking about?


Regarding China I am currently pursuing a different path. I have conquered everything out of CK plains and I am defending q line roughly at Kweyiang.
It much cheaper than attacking CK plains and it provides almost the same benefits.

Its about fighting SOV in late 42 or in 45. In 42 they have little to no air force; IJ should be able to control the air in '42 if planned for.
Taking SOV out of the war by mid 43 … that means 2 of the largest AV armies assembled against IJ out of the picture.
I think that is quite a good reason to consider taking out the SOV.
Going for India after that? Yes, that might be a good idea … I agree, India has a lot of economic assets that can be seized.

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/19/2018 1:32:17 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ITAKLinus
Regarding China I am currently pursuing a different path. I have conquered everything out of CK plains and I am defending q line roughly at Kweyiang.
It much cheaper than attacking CK plains and it provides almost the same benefits.

You may not have faced the CHI hordes in '44. Those +700 AV divs if they have supply are monsters. Coupled with SOV Armor and arty, they can smash through any defense IJ has.
So, you are not quite focused on the same aspects that I am ….

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/19/2018 1:48:35 AM   
adarbrauner

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


Going for India after that? Yes, that might be a good idea … I agree, India has a lot of economic assets that can be seized.





You need a lot of PPs avaiable to do that, really a lot, depending on what mod and how large its pps allocation, nand on your set of HR regarding required expenditure of pps;
Me for myself, for example, play very conservatively, and require the expenditure of pps for any change of sector of competence, for both land and air units;

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/19/2018 3:30:51 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


Going for India after that? Yes, that might be a good idea … I agree, India has a lot of economic assets that can be seized.





You need a lot of PPs avaiable to do that, really a lot, depending on what mod and how large its pps allocation, nand on your set of HR regarding required expenditure of pps;
Me for myself, for example, play very conservatively, and require the expenditure of pps for any change of sector of competence, for both land and air units;

Yeah, but I'm talking about after both CHI and SOV have been taken out … 8/43 or later … by then you've had time to buy out pretty much what you want/need no matter what your rules are.
One advantage of going after SOV is that you don't need to buy out the CHI/MAN forces … you can focus for a while on the Gen Def HQ forces.
Then you can ask about do you need to pay PP's for MAN troops that go overland to India AFTER SOV is contained. The MAN assignment is no longer reasonable, discussion with players etc.


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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/20/2018 2:46:39 PM   
Lowpe


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9/30/42

A few raids on Cam Ranh Bay generate several naval engagements, and the Allies swamp the route with subs...getting shots on two different carriers and missing. Soo many subs.




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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/20/2018 2:48:36 PM   
Lowpe


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Naval search...I knew there was PT boats, but was hoping the sweeping destroyers would catch them, and the big girl here would catch a cruiser force.

Not so, two engagements with massed PT boats and Yamato also puts the finishing touches on the AKE TF attacked earlier by the sweeping destroyer squadrons.




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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/20/2018 2:51:07 PM   
Lowpe


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Pakse falls to massed allied tanks shock attacking, Tourane holds barely (even with massed naval bombardments), and Temuloh fall (north of Singers).

Allied land strength is simply overwhelming.

Another good day in the inflicting losses on the Allies...

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/22/2018 6:55:47 PM   
Miller


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Just skimmed over this for the first time. Kudos for going with the accidental Soviet activation, I don't think many others would have done so! Makes me feel better about the current position I am in in my game...

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/25/2018 3:39:03 PM   
Lowpe


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Oct 3, 1942

The Massive Soviet Armored strike here might be blunted, but Japan cannot make any headway either. Meanwhile, other ares of the Soviet line offer no opportunity either for Japan....

The supply costs in this huge long front are simply amazing.




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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/25/2018 3:43:40 PM   
Lowpe


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Can you say disaster?





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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/25/2018 3:45:42 PM   
Lowpe


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Malaya and area...




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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/25/2018 4:38:00 PM   
ITAKLinus

 

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Well, I understand that facing SOV in mid '45 is a nightmare but it's very very far in the game. I feel that most of the game has already been decided somewhere else when SOV hordes arrive.

Of course they are a problem, but if you have USA strat bombing your industry at short range and no more industrial power... Well you are done in any case.

On the other side, if you are somehow holding the ground in mid '45, SOV will cause you a lot of troubles but you can try to slow them down for some months.




Regarding China: raw AVs are not very indicative. Good Chinese troops are a big problem but they still lack of heavy equipement and there is no way they can have sufficient supplies just holding CK plains.
Those damn cities provide them some industrial power but it's nothing that changes the balance in the Theatre.



India. It's horribly complex to attack India. I landed there at the end of January and I still had to conquer Burma so it has been a very brutal campaign with thousands of squad destroyed and many LCUs razed.
Moreover, I have been blocked around Calcutta for 4 months.

Therefore, I do not advice to attack India unless you are so sure of what you are doing that you can bear the burden of months and months of terrible losses everywhere.
On the other side, now that I am besieging Hyderabad and Bombay with just USA reinforcements to contest me, I feel that attacking India is a big deal. Well, 'big' is an euphemism...

Securing India provides a lot of OIL (300 undamaged from Magwe and 70 from Ledo), RES, HI and LI. And, something very important, it blows up Commonwealth's armies: they have a chronic shortage of everything and if you destroy some divisions leaving the others barely alive, it becomes really difficoult for an Allied player to gather a threatening force for a very long time.

I decided to bet on India rather than other places and I am completely satisfied with my choice, even if very bloody (in August I have used 800 IJA inf squads for example).

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 10/31/2018 3:31:00 PM   
Lowpe


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10/5/1942

IJAAF bombers are hitting hard this major Chinese push. Today Tojos' swept away the P38s, and for now the 4E beasts haven't had success hitting the IJA troopers.






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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 11/2/2018 2:00:40 PM   
Lowpe


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Oct 6, 1942

Another major Soviet thrust...




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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 11/2/2018 2:22:27 PM   
jwolf

 

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It still floors me that the Soviets have such huge forces available in the Far East at a time when historically they were in a desperate fight for survival against the Germans.

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 11/2/2018 2:47:25 PM   
mind_messing

 

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My thoughts of the subject of beating the Soviets after Chungking:

- The correct move for the entire Chinese Army is to run on Dec 7th for Burma, and thence India if Burma falls. Burma/India has supply, China does not.
- The IJA China Expeditionary Army needs to move to destroy as much of the Chinese Army as possible, following it to Burma as necessary.
- The Kwantung Army needs to support the China Expeditionary Army to the fullest extent possible in the capture of China.
- Afterwards, the best elements of both the CEA and Kwantung Army need to be picked off for deployment against the Allied forces in the Pacific.
- The IJA is vastly outnumbered throughout most of the game: there's little value on bringing more on.


quote:

It still floors me that the Soviets have such huge forces available in the Far East at a time when historically they were in a desperate fight for survival against the Germans.


The issue with the Soviets was never manpower (at least not until the very late war) but equipment shortages. The Soviet forces in the East are all at near full TOE, so it makes sense that there's manpower to funnel in to the units.

However, it's mainly a balance decision. If the Soviets had zero or very low levels of replacements, then it would be the meta move for the IJA to immediately attack the Soviets on Dec 7th to start a war of attrition that they'd be certain to win before '45. Then you'd have the usual tears on the forum about ahistorical play.

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 11/2/2018 4:14:17 PM   
tarkalak

 

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Alfred once commented that the developers had very limited data about the Soviet forces in the Far East.

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I do not know what is scarier: that I do understand nothing of this demonic script or that I am starting to see the demons that it evokes.

Me, studying for a PHD entry exam in Applied Mathematics.

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 11/4/2018 12:23:56 PM   
Lowpe


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October 7, 1942

These two heavy cruisers have been stuck in a heavily damaged state since Jan of 1941, prior to Soviet activation. They got into a slugging match with some Allies cruisers near Singers, and then they retreated north up thru the Malacca Straits rather than east or south. Hence, they have been out of the game for the entire war...

Here they make a mad dash for Miri and are caught close to Singers...




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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 11/4/2018 12:24:53 PM   
Lowpe


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So many subs...and the IJN is mounting an attempt to rescue some troops south of Cam Ranh Bay.




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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 11/4/2018 12:25:35 PM   
Lowpe


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Allied subs finally connect with one torpedo...




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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 11/4/2018 12:26:04 PM >

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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 11/4/2018 12:27:22 PM   
Lowpe


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Most likely both Soviet Tank Divisions here...infiltrating deep. Huge piles of Soviet artillery position are to the north shelling.




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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 11/4/2018 12:28:37 PM   
Lowpe


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No joy for the cruisers, by the end of the day everyone is sunk. Allies even sortied PBYs against them.




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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 11/4/2018 12:31:06 PM   
Lowpe


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Soviet tactics are to tie down the IJA with equal to slightly lesser numbers but concentrate their artillery in huge batteries while sending their tanks forward to infiltrate in the west, while in the east they are just used overwhelming force.

Chinese, supported by a few Soviets, just used overwhelming attacks...






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RE: Soviets Activated.... - 11/4/2018 12:38:00 PM   
Lowpe


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Imagine the scene, the dispirited defenders of Cam Ranh Bay and points west huddled onto this outcropping being shelled, attacked and bombed daily when the IJN pulls up with many destroyers seeking to rescue some of the troops...but there is only space for 20-25%.

Chaos!




There are two squadrons of PT boats now north of Hue...they were hunting the KB.

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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 11/4/2018 12:41:43 PM >

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