Vichy France and the colonies

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Majorball68
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Vichy France and the colonies

Post by Majorball68 »

Just want to pick the brains of some experience players regarding Vichy.

I am in a game where the only colonies to go Free French are the pacific islands.

Its the relationship between Vichy, its colonies, being hostile etc that I have no idea about.

If the CW wishes to take out a Vichy Colony like Syria I assume the CW has to DOW Vichy to do this?

Does this then make the CW at war with mainland Vichy and provide all their forces to the Axis or only make them hostile?

What are the impacts of making them hostile?

Would appreciate any feedback.

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paulderynck
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RE: Vichy France and the colonies

Post by paulderynck »

Hostile only happens if the Allies attack the Vichy homeland or destroy French units in Allied controlled hexes when Vichy is created (never seen this second way happen).

To attack Syria, you have to DoW Vichy and possibly delay US entry. That puts them at war with the Allies but does not make them hostile. Their forces can still only go to sea (and must RTB at the end of each turn unless hostile) or only enter Vichy controlled or adjacent enemy controlled hexes, and still don't cooperate with the Axis (not a problem at sea), so they are pretty hamstrung. Plus their navy is normally using German (the Vichy creator) action limits, so it's hard to do much with them. A clever opponent will also RTB their navy to places where it will be OoS on the turn after Vichy creation.

Personally I prefer to wait until the US is in the war before DoWing Vichy (but it can depend on which places go FF). The reason why is it's much easier to set up a one impulse blitz that takes out swathes of Vichy territory by enjoying the fruits of a surprise impulse.

In your case there should be no FF because FF needs a minor country for its home country. And FF cannot be reconstituted in this case by taking Vichy colonies and reverting them, because there's no FF to revert them to. The only way to get France back in the game is by liberating France.
Paul
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Jagdtiger14
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RE: Vichy France and the colonies

Post by Jagdtiger14 »

Hostile also happens when (Vichy creation determine control step): "All Allied controlled hexes in Vichy French controlled minor countries and territories MAY now be immediately reverted to Vichy control. Vichy France is hostile to all Allied major powers that do not immediately revert all such hexes to Vichy control."

My question is: There are three states of being for Vichy: Neutral, Active, and Hostile. How is it that Vichy can become active, but not hostile? DOW on it by Allied power? Invasion of non-Metro France Vichy controlled country/territory?...or is this making them hostile?
Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC
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Centuur
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RE: Vichy France and the colonies

Post by Centuur »

The role of Vichy France reflects the instability of it's government. The Vichy government was plagued with corruption, different opinions among the ministers and the leaders of the overseas territories. Generals and admirals were continually messing around with Vichy politics. This reflects on the armed forces of Vichy and it's navy.
The Vichy government could not fully rely on the forces at their disposal, especially when they had to defend against Free French or US forces. This was also due to the fact that the Vichy forces were defeated by Germany and Italy in the first place, so there wasn't a lot of fighting spirit in the Vichy armed forces.

The British however, due to operation Dynamo (among which the attack on Mers-el-Kebir) made a political mistake and were not trusted by French armed forces, who were insulted by this bloody British attack. Thus, when British units entered Syria, they had to fight to take the country, where the US in Morocco and Algeria only met a token resistance (troops were defecting there or simply stood and watch the US forces enter the area).

This is reflected by the status of Vichy in World in Flames. Neutral when not at war, active when at war with restrictions on use of their armed forces (defection possibilities and the fact that each ship moved is a naval move) and hostile when the British decide to destroy French ships during Vichy creation or when Vichy France itself is entered by Allied troops (after which there are no restrictions on using Vichy troops anymore).
Peter
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Majorball68
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RE: Vichy France and the colonies

Post by Majorball68 »

You are correct Paul. I really wanted to get some experience playing with a Free France but I have rolled so poorly on the colony rolls there is no Free France! I actually rolled snake eyes for the 2 most likely to go FF.

More questions.
The Italians have conquered Tunisia, the CW have retaken Tunisia before the fall of France and are likely to conquer it before France has Vichy installed. If CW keep it for themselves will it affect Vichy and make them hostile?

If the CW liberate it back the French it will obviously go into the colony die roll equation.

Can Axis enter Vichy Colonies if CW have DOW Vichy but not hostile with Vichy?
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paulderynck
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RE: Vichy France and the colonies

Post by paulderynck »

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Hostile also happens when (Vichy creation determine control step): "All Allied controlled hexes in Vichy French controlled minor countries and territories MAY now be immediately reverted to Vichy control. Vichy France is hostile to all Allied major powers that do not immediately revert all such hexes to Vichy control."

My question is: There are three states of being for Vichy: Neutral, Active, and Hostile. How is it that Vichy can become active, but not hostile? DOW on it by Allied power? Invasion of non-Metro France Vichy controlled country/territory?...or is this making them hostile?
No that rule you cite is from RAW8 and MWiF is RAW7.

RAW7 goes on to say: "Allied major powers at war with the installing major power may declare war on Vichy France. The declaration of war does not make Vichy France hostile to that Allied major power. However, if an Allied unit enters Metropolitan Vichy France, Vichy France becomes hostile to that unit's controlling major power."

Actually there are 4 states for Vichy:
1. Neutral
2. Neutral and Hostile
3. Active
4. Active and Hostile

(That is, without counting sub-dividing cases 2 and 4 as to which Allied powers Vichy is hostile to.)
Paul
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paulderynck
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RE: Vichy France and the colonies

Post by paulderynck »

ORIGINAL: Majorball68

You are correct Paul. I really wanted to get some experience playing with a Free France but I have rolled so poorly on the colony rolls there is no Free France! I actually rolled snake eyes for the 2 most likely to go FF.

More questions.
The Italians have conquered Tunisia, the CW have retaken Tunisia before the fall of France and are likely to conquer it before France has Vichy installed. If CW keep it for themselves will it affect Vichy and make them hostile?

No, but if they don't conquer it in time they will get teleported out when Vichy is declared.
If the CW liberate it back the French it will obviously go into the colony die roll equation.

No, sequence of play is critical here. Conquest is before Vichy Declaration is before Liberation. So if they don't conquer they must leave and if they do conquer they cannot liberate or - in your case - revert it.
Can Axis enter Vichy Colonies if CW have DOW Vichy but not hostile with Vichy?
Yes, but only the installer and he must meet the Foreign Troop Commitment rules to do so. FTC is not needed if Vichy were to become hostile.
Paul
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