Infamy, Infamy! loki100 (axis) vs Gunnulf (allies)

Post descriptions of your brilliant victories and unfortunate defeats here.

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Infamy, Infamy! loki100 (axis) vs Gunnulf (allies)

Post by loki100 »

Table of Contents

T1: In which the British hide all their tanks
T2: In which the Luftwaffe bravely hide behind the Regia Aeronautica
T3: In which the Regia Aeronautica fight bravely while the Luftwaffe concentrates on unarmed recon planes ... and Catania is outflanked
T4: In which the Italians decide not to defend Sciacca and the Allies are too scared to attack Catania
T5: In which there is a lot of bad news and some good news
T6: In which I start to shoot down allied recon planes and an Italian General needs to hide his face
T7: In which Italy says basta
T8: Is it winter yet?
T9: In which my fighters develop a phobia of Allied bombers
T10: In which the Wehrmacht enjoys the tranquility of Autumn in Southern Italy
T11: In which the Allies invade themselves and I bomb England
T12: In which everything is under control (ahem)
T13: The unexpected arrival of the Spanish Inquistition (maybe)
T14: In which I find one metric I am winning on
T15: In which some Allied bombers are shot down
T16: In which I get very excited at a forecast of rain (and remember I live on the west coast of Scotland)
T17-T18: In which the Allies rampage in Italy and Uncle Joe gets ready to party in the East
T19: In which I start to no longer want to look at Italy
T20: In which I remain very happy ... as does Uncle Joe
T21: In which the Allies reach Northern Italy
T22: A post with a nice reference to 15C Italian history
T23: In which I am not pleased to lose a lot of VP
T24: In which I practice winning by not losing
T25: In which it is clear the Allies are starving in Italy (not really to be honest)
T26: In which I celebrate the end of 1943 by bombing England ... and retreating in Italy
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loki100
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T1

Post by loki100 »

T1 – 10-16 July 1943

New WiTW AAR, again from the Axis side. I'm a little out of practice and wanted to try out some things differently to my last game. Now with that on my 'cv' I have a low bar to clear if all I want to do is slightly better this time.

First the obvious. Since we are using the EF box (my fault I forgot to turn it off), I will pay due attention in order to avoid having to send all my reinforcements from mid-44 onwards to try and keep Uncle Joe under control.

Second, I'm going to grab all the spare VP that I can. One nice source is for allocating too much to the garrisons. One easy way to do this is to set all the depots in NW Europe to #4 and, for a few turns, all the HQ in that sector to #4 as well. This will bump up the combat value of my formations.

Third I am going to actively manage the airwar rather than just rely on letting planes take off on demand. At the start I did a bit of a mix but after a few turns organised all my fighters in the Reich into AS directives. These were at first set up to the optimal height for German 1943 fighters (20,000') and in my own part of the turn. As we will see I've had to revise this a few times to find a set up that really pays off.

Should add this is a server game. We will probably switch sides at the end but due to time constraints it suits me to play the Axis side at the moment.

Anyway T1 was the usual admin slog to get the air OOB as I want it. Best done as it makes everything else so much easier.

Allied landings in Sicily much as expected. The suspicious bit was the lack of British tanks.

I decided to be cautious just in case and pull the German units back towards Messina. Set up a recon mission over the British and a GA mission over my current front line. There is an AS mission around Messina to provide some protection.

Putting as many Italian planes as I can into action.

Still think there was a lack of British tanks, so I think they have all been sent home to practice their driving skills on Salisbury Plain?

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Of course on T1 there is not much I can do. Gunulf very sensibly hit the U-Boats in the north-east.

Unfortunately my fighters got involved in a series of small interceptions producing fairly heavy losses.

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Here's my original AS pattern. 'Intruder' are the NF missions – note I am trying to catch out any incautious Bomber Command units over E Anglia (this did not work).

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Anyway onto the really important stuff.

The title is of course part of the classic line in British cinema, from Carry on Cleo just as the divine Julius is about to expire: 'Infamy, Infamy, they've all got it in for me'.

Now if only I could work out how to make use of the second greatest line:

“Captain Keene: Fire at will!

Private Belcher: Poor old Will, why do they always fire at him?”
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RE: T1

Post by Devonport »

A real treat, another Loki AAR!

Seems like he has used all his task forces, but would there be any tanks in the first wave?
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RE: T1

Post by Helpless »

I've been waiting for this AAR, Roger :)
Here's my original AS pattern. 'Intruder' are the NF missions – note I am trying to catch out any incautious Bomber Command units over E Anglia (this did not work).

(Night) intruder mission aims at landing enemy planes, so you need to target enemy AF, preferably with some recon data. Now only one of your target boxes goes over enemy AFs and most of them are used by 8th US AF at the beginning (unless rebased).

In any case German night navigation is not GPS-like, so don't expect miracles.
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RE: T1

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: Devonport

A real treat, another Loki AAR!

Seems like he has used all his task forces, but would there be any tanks in the first wave?

there is something really good fun about WiTW. That it is shorter than the WiTE timeframe helps, and that unlike WiTE the basic code is stable so you don't run the risk of seeing a game collapse due to a patch etc. Primarily its because there is so much cat and mouse to game play, ok its attack vs defense at the strategic level but it offers much more than that would imply.

Yes I think he chucked everything ashore, maybe one TF held back? The comment about the British tanks is one that re-occurs as the game progresses (we've just done T12) [;)]
ORIGINAL: Helpless

I've been waiting for this AAR, Roger :)
Here's my original AS pattern. 'Intruder' are the NF missions – note I am trying to catch out any incautious Bomber Command units over E Anglia (this did not work).

(Night) intruder mission aims at landing enemy planes, so you need to target enemy AF, preferably with some recon data. Now only one of your target boxes goes over enemy AFs and most of them are used by 8th US AF at the beginning (unless rebased).

In any case German night navigation is not GPS-like, so don't expect miracles.

Ah, that does explain why my night fighters have been bravely taking off only to then hide from the nasty British bombers. So there is no equivalent to the air superiority (ie attack or defend this bit of airspace) mission for night fighters? Intruder is an aggressive attempt to catch out the enemy over their own bases but has no other impact.

Ah .. oh well, need to rethink that bit of the air war ... [8D]
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RE: T1

Post by Q-Ball »

That's definitely a full-on invasion of Sicily, with all 6 amphibs. Now, he should be able to immediately remove at least 3 of them to prep for elsewhere, without impacting any beaches. And you can really go down to 1 Amphib pretty quick if you want to as Allies, just to keep the British beaches around Noto. After turn 3 or so, that should be plenty.
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RE: T1

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

That's definitely a full-on invasion of Sicily, with all 6 amphibs. Now, he should be able to immediately remove at least 3 of them to prep for elsewhere, without impacting any beaches. And you can really go down to 1 Amphib pretty quick if you want to as Allies, just to keep the British beaches around Noto. After turn 3 or so, that should be plenty.

That was my best guess, its clear that Gunnulf has been picking up tips from you ... very keen to concentrate rather than risk lots of niggly low odds battles.

I have to assume a couple of TF going towards Sardinia, couple (at least) for a mainland landing and ... ?
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T2

Post by loki100 »

T2

Air War.

US 8 AF hit oil and u-boats around Hannover while Bomber Command went for the Ruhr.

My losses were relatively high but for two reasons. One was I used the Italian airforce a lot over Sicily and second was leaving some aspects of the air defence on auto (ie no missions) which tends to trigger one sided battles.

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185 of my lost planes were Italian (to be fair this disregard for their welfare is going to come back to hit me later on) so only 90 or so were from German squadrons.

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Digging into the Allied losses in more detail. Seems like the B-17s have had a bad start (so that may keep them quiet for a turn or so) but Bomber Command has not really taken any serious losses.

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Accepting that I have misplayed the night fighter missions, I decided to gather up all the fighters in the Reich into allocated air superiority missions. All are at 20,000' (optimal height for German fighters but as we will see this brings problems).

What I am trying to do is create clusters of 2-300 fighters. Playing as the allies, I find it is the loss of morale due to damage – rather than outright losses – that sets the tempo of the strategic airwar. So what I am trying to do is make sure that if I pick the right locations the allies pay a high price and I come out ahead in any exchanges.

That is the plan … (ahem)

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Quite aggressive in the Med. Interested to try and work out how many TF are back in N Africa as it might give me a clue as to the next steps. Defensive naval patrol off Calabria just in case of a quick attempt to cut off my units in Sicily.

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East Front. As mentioned, am going to manage this much more actively and prioritise it for replacements at least in 1943.

One reason for the relatively low front line strength is I have put a lot on refit – would rather have them robust in a few turns than have to deal with units becoming depleted (and then much harder to rebuild).

Also, if I can, I'd rather not have to use up admin pts to transfer units either way. Want to see if I can run the EF basically by using the at-start plus allocated forces.

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Sicily after my moves and recon. Heavy allied air interdiction from Messina to Catania.

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RE: T2

Post by IslandInland »

I love me some Loki AAR.[:)]

Excellent bedtime reading with a nice cup of hot chocolate.

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RE: T2

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: XXXCorps

I love me some Loki AAR.[:)]

Excellent bedtime reading with a nice cup of hot chocolate.


thank you, I fear its going to become the usual comedy of errors ... so best to keep a firm hold on your cup [;)]
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T3

Post by loki100 »

T3

Apols this is a bit slow. Been struggling for time and getting my turns back as promptly as I can has taken priority.

Anyway. Not a good turn. The Catania defensive line was breached ... ok after it held off two attacks but ...

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So I pulled back to the rough ground around Etna.

Bit of air action over Sardinia. Reasonable to suspect this is the next target.

As readers of my earlier AARs may have picked up, I am really not sure how to play the Italian phase of WiTW. With the axis I panic at the sight of my small army, with the Allies its the fear of botching a landing.

Sardinia is going to be another example. At this stage I had an idea to contest it, that PzGr division can be tough but of course its then not available in Italy proper.

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In the air Bomber Command went for the Ruhr while 8 AirForce bombed around Hamburg.

Air losses. Looks worse for me than that implies as around 180 of my lost planes were Italian. The Luftwaffe offers a vote of thanks to their noble allies.

For the allies, they lost a lot of recon planes. Since I have set my AS missions at 20,000' (notionally the optimal height for most German fighters) it appears they have little interest in chasing after bombers but are really happy shooting down recon planes. I guess this may pay off in the end.

Of the Allied LB losses, 10 were Lancasters and 2 were B-17s. I suspect if this carries on I will lose the war rather early.

Of course this doesn't show damaged planes and in a way they are more important. Its all about keeping the morale of the strategic bombers as low (or high) as you possibly can.

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Early view of the VP scores. One good thing is that boosting the strength of my garrison units, especially in France, is yielding a nice return in respect to Partisan pts.

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EF. As mentioned I am really trying to keep this under control this time. So far not too bad.

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RE: T3

Post by Devonport »

If you set your AS at 20,000ft, will they have success against bombers who may be higher?

Don't know the answer, but I expect most playing as allies to have Bomber Command and 8th USAAF above this height. In my games against the AI the 8th USAAF has a lot of success against German fighters.
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RE: T3

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: Devonport

If you set your AS at 20,000ft, will they have success against bombers who may be higher?

Don't know the answer, but I expect most playing as allies to have Bomber Command and 8th USAAF above this height. In my games against the AI the 8th USAAF has a lot of success against German fighters.

I worked it out in the end and the answer is no. An AS mission at 20,000' that clashes with an AS mission will work to my advantage, ie the allied fighters will have to come down to my level to fight. But the bomber stream and its escorts aren't looking for an aerial battle so will ignore too low fighters and go about their business.

Last time I played the axis I simply put fighters onto airbases and let the auto intercept do its business so didn't have to work all this lot out and I think the AI relies heavily on this routine. So against Dave I had a lot of air battles, won some, lost some badly and burnt out the Luftwaffe too quickly.

So my take is that you need to put your fighters at around 25,000' if your primary opposition will be an escorted bomber stream, but if you hit an allied AS at that altitude you are going to get cut to pieces. The mid-44 Bf-109 solves this as its ideal operating height is 25,000, but of course by then Germany can be bombed into oblivion, so you need to gamble in 1943.

There are so many subtle bits to this game, even if you make a mistake you can learn a lot from it.

As it is, I'm still not really sure of the merits of AS vs auto-intercept. In favour of AS is you can really concentrate say 400 fighters into a tight box - so you will inflict a lot of damage in addition to outright kills. But for auto-intercept, esp if you strip off the fuel tanks (and try to keep each airbase with only one plane type), you can still generate large groups of fighters and there is less chance of the allies finding a way between your fighter boxes.
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RE: T3

Post by LiquidSky »



Air Superiority is an attrition mission. It forces a battle without having any bombers present. Any opposing fighters that can intercept, will intercept your AS mission.

So it really is only a useful tool for the side that can afford to lose the planes/pilots.
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RE: T3

Post by loki100 »

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Air Superiority is an attrition mission. It forces a battle without having any bombers present. Any opposing fighters that can intercept, will intercept your AS mission.

So it really is only a useful tool for the side that can afford to lose the planes/pilots.

with some trepidation, I'm not sure I completely agree. I think the gain to the Axis of AS is you can really box in your fighters and prevent them running around - I know that taking off the fuel tanks helps but it remains a problem in any case.

A larger issue is how best to use the Luftwaffe. I think the general consensus is that at some stage between mid and late 1944 you need to start using untrained pilots, in turn that increases your operational losses and in effect the Luftwaffe falls apart.

So far (and this applies in this game too), my focus has been on delaying this break point. I'm now coming to question this in turn. By late 1944 the Allies have complete air dominance where they want and the VP gain for strategic bombing is minimal.

I'm wondering if really pushing the Luftwaffe in 1943 is a better mindset. You might reach the break point earlier but if you damage more allied bombers in 1943 then that reduces bombing when its the most valuable? I guess the question is how best to use a finite asset over the spread of the game?
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T4

Post by loki100 »

T4

Since this is a server game I'm reliant on the images I took at the time. After a while I've worked out a set that gives me the basis for a fairly full report but early on ... its a wee bit random.

So lets pretend it was always my intention to concentrate on Sicily ...

Opening situation. Actually very little Allied progress that turn but it looks like the British are building up for a drive on Messina.

The Italian army demands to take the lead in throwing the invaders back to sea ... at least that is what I'd like to believe.

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As this makes clear, they are very enthusiastic.

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I think at this stage I was too worried about being cut off and could probably have slowed the Allies if I'd held the line more aggressively.
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T5

Post by loki100 »

T5: 31 July – 6 August

At least this time I remembered to take enough screenshots to make a decent post out of.

Early look at the VP table. Bit worried that the bombing VP is at 9 and U-boats almost eliminated. I'm allocating some scarce admin pts to critical repair work.

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Air losses (should note this is at the start of my turn as my interest is in what happened in the Allied bombing turn). Mine look bad but only 40 of the lost FB were German, the rest were the result of the Italian airforce bravely defending Fortress Europa.

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Allied air losses. Seems like the bulk of the allied losses are in the fighters protecting their missions over Sicily. Looking at the combats I suspect a lot of these are flak damaged planes that then crash on landing. Bomber Command had depressingly few losses but inflicted some losses on 8 Air.

One good news/bad news line is the very low Typhoon losses. Clearly the Allies are not sending them to the Med (good news) but resting them in the UK waiting for 1944 (bad news).

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While Bomber Command managed to hit the Ruhr, 8 Air had a bad time in its raid on Hannover.

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Sardinian ports were heavily bombed.

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Sicily was mostly bad news. Trapani and Catania fell. German units around Etna put up a decent defence but were finally overwhelmed.

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Hermann's finest are reduced to a shadow of their former glory. Will pull back so it can refit properly.

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My air directives in Italy. Defensive over Sardinia. Naval mission to protect my flanks in Calabria. Being nosy and a little bit opportunistic over Sicily.

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On the ground prepare for the final defence of the key cities.

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Eastern Front is relatively under control.

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T6

Post by loki100 »

T6: 7-13 August 1943

VP situation. Pretty much as expected at this stage? Bit worried that bombing VP is already at 10 but ... . In my favour the partisan VP reflects the reinforcements I have pushed into France.

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Situation in Sicily was not too good [1]. In the air the Italian airforce showed an unacceptable lack of enthusiasm.

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Over northern Europe, the main air action was by Bomber Command. My fighters started an obsession that was to last for quite a few turns. Ignore those dangerous large bombers and spend their days happily chasing allied recon planes ...

While this was going on, 8 Airforce managed a few smaller raids around Frankfurt.

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Air losses. This time I took more from the Luftwaffe. Not exactly really damaging the allied strategic bombers.

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And a pretty chart, most of the real air combat is taking place in Italy.

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Eastern Front is relatively under control.

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As you can see, my combat strength is holding up

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I think I mentioned that Sicily was not going so well? Here is my first attack of the game. As you can see the Italian commander was so embarrassed he has hidden his face.

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Anyway to cheer me up, here's another pretty graph of all my VP for leaving the bulk of the army in the safety of France. There are real rewards for eating all that Camembert.

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[1] this is a polite description, others are available on request.
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T7

Post by loki100 »

T7: 14 – 20 August 1943

As we are some distance into the game, worth showing the resources/production screen. So far no real worries. No Allied bombing aimed at truck or tank production so far.

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VP. Pity that bombing VP has reached 10 but I am using most of my admin pts to mobilise the units in Germany, some going to priority repairs and shifting AA and engineering assets.

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Air losses. Very quiet turn as my fighters continued their obsession with chasing Allied recon planes and ignoring the big scary bombers ....

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This seems to be the only time that they made a mistake and actually went near the Allied bombers. See its not that dangerous.

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However, when I looked at the map and log I worked out why the air war was so limited. Yep Italy has abandoned me ... after all the opportunities I gave them too.

I think in my fear of being cut off I failed to commit enough German units to bolster the defences. To put it mildly, this sets off a chain of unwelcome events [1]

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Fortunately on Sardinia I'd pulled the PzGr back to a port. Committed a lot of my bombers to contest the sea zones and managed to pull them out with only one lost element.

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Eastern Front. At least I am winning somewhere. Onwards to Moscow is the new order of the day ...

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[1] Unwelcome for me ...
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T8

Post by loki100 »

T8: 21 – 27 August 1943

I'm starting wondering when winter will arrive – not the most optimistic of mindsets.

Ahem

Just to make things slightly more frustrating, my fighters returned to their fixation on chasing after recon planes. Which given what happened the one time they did tangle with Allied bombers is probably a good idea.

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In Germany 8 AAF seemed to go for the mid-Weser cities, at least here I managed to catch and damage one raid. They also bombed (unescorted and not intercepted) at Stettin.

Bomber Command seemed to have a week off.

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VP. Good to see so many US losses when there was no ground combat – apparently a troop movement was intercepted by a U-boat.

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Overall that was a quiet turn in the air. I've shown my fighter losses and US bombers and fighters. One bit of bad news is the first appearance of the P-51s.

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EF, seems to be going not too bad. I am trying to refit units before they are ground down – so it is the priority for my replacements.

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Italy. Not sure if that allied region is partisan generated or a set of landings. Trying to scramble for some sort of defensive lines. Can't just pull back as I need to delay the Allies as well.

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