Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Infamy, Infamy! loki100 (axis) vs Gunnulf (allies)

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> After Action Reports >> Infamy, Infamy! loki100 (axis) vs Gunnulf (allies) Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Infamy, Infamy! loki100 (axis) vs Gunnulf (allies) - 2/21/2017 2:34:55 PM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline
Table of Contents

T1: In which the British hide all their tanks
T2: In which the Luftwaffe bravely hide behind the Regia Aeronautica
T3: In which the Regia Aeronautica fight bravely while the Luftwaffe concentrates on unarmed recon planes ... and Catania is outflanked
T4: In which the Italians decide not to defend Sciacca and the Allies are too scared to attack Catania
T5: In which there is a lot of bad news and some good news
T6: In which I start to shoot down allied recon planes and an Italian General needs to hide his face
T7: In which Italy says basta
T8: Is it winter yet?
T9: In which my fighters develop a phobia of Allied bombers
T10: In which the Wehrmacht enjoys the tranquility of Autumn in Southern Italy
T11: In which the Allies invade themselves and I bomb England
T12: In which everything is under control (ahem)
T13: The unexpected arrival of the Spanish Inquistition (maybe)
T14: In which I find one metric I am winning on
T15: In which some Allied bombers are shot down
T16: In which I get very excited at a forecast of rain (and remember I live on the west coast of Scotland)
T17-T18: In which the Allies rampage in Italy and Uncle Joe gets ready to party in the East
T19: In which I start to no longer want to look at Italy
T20: In which I remain very happy ... as does Uncle Joe
T21: In which the Allies reach Northern Italy
T22: A post with a nice reference to 15C Italian history
T23: In which I am not pleased to lose a lot of VP
T24: In which I practice winning by not losing
T25: In which it is clear the Allies are starving in Italy (not really to be honest)
T26: In which I celebrate the end of 1943 by bombing England ... and retreating in Italy

< Message edited by loki100 -- 5/16/2017 7:57:18 AM >


_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun
Post #: 1
T1 - 2/21/2017 2:36:39 PM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline
T1 – 10-16 July 1943

New WiTW AAR, again from the Axis side. I'm a little out of practice and wanted to try out some things differently to my last game. Now with that on my 'cv' I have a low bar to clear if all I want to do is slightly better this time.

First the obvious. Since we are using the EF box (my fault I forgot to turn it off), I will pay due attention in order to avoid having to send all my reinforcements from mid-44 onwards to try and keep Uncle Joe under control.

Second, I'm going to grab all the spare VP that I can. One nice source is for allocating too much to the garrisons. One easy way to do this is to set all the depots in NW Europe to #4 and, for a few turns, all the HQ in that sector to #4 as well. This will bump up the combat value of my formations.

Third I am going to actively manage the airwar rather than just rely on letting planes take off on demand. At the start I did a bit of a mix but after a few turns organised all my fighters in the Reich into AS directives. These were at first set up to the optimal height for German 1943 fighters (20,000') and in my own part of the turn. As we will see I've had to revise this a few times to find a set up that really pays off.

Should add this is a server game. We will probably switch sides at the end but due to time constraints it suits me to play the Axis side at the moment.

Anyway T1 was the usual admin slog to get the air OOB as I want it. Best done as it makes everything else so much easier.

Allied landings in Sicily much as expected. The suspicious bit was the lack of British tanks.

I decided to be cautious just in case and pull the German units back towards Messina. Set up a recon mission over the British and a GA mission over my current front line. There is an AS mission around Messina to provide some protection.

Putting as many Italian planes as I can into action.

Still think there was a lack of British tanks, so I think they have all been sent home to practice their driving skills on Salisbury Plain?



Of course on T1 there is not much I can do. Gunulf very sensibly hit the U-Boats in the north-east.

Unfortunately my fighters got involved in a series of small interceptions producing fairly heavy losses.



Here's my original AS pattern. 'Intruder' are the NF missions – note I am trying to catch out any incautious Bomber Command units over E Anglia (this did not work).



Anyway onto the really important stuff.

The title is of course part of the classic line in British cinema, from Carry on Cleo just as the divine Julius is about to expire: 'Infamy, Infamy, they've all got it in for me'.

Now if only I could work out how to make use of the second greatest line:

“Captain Keene: Fire at will!

Private Belcher: Poor old Will, why do they always fire at him?”


_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 2
RE: T1 - 2/21/2017 3:03:14 PM   
Devonport


Posts: 152
Joined: 4/1/2010
Status: offline
A real treat, another Loki AAR!

Seems like he has used all his task forces, but would there be any tanks in the first wave?

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 3
RE: T1 - 2/21/2017 3:05:35 PM   
Helpless


Posts: 14808
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: online
I've been waiting for this AAR, Roger :)

quote:

Here's my original AS pattern. 'Intruder' are the NF missions – note I am trying to catch out any incautious Bomber Command units over E Anglia (this did not work).


(Night) intruder mission aims at landing enemy planes, so you need to target enemy AF, preferably with some recon data. Now only one of your target boxes goes over enemy AFs and most of them are used by 8th US AF at the beginning (unless rebased).

In any case German night navigation is not GPS-like, so don't expect miracles.

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 4
RE: T1 - 2/21/2017 9:23:53 PM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devonport

A real treat, another Loki AAR!

Seems like he has used all his task forces, but would there be any tanks in the first wave?


there is something really good fun about WiTW. That it is shorter than the WiTE timeframe helps, and that unlike WiTE the basic code is stable so you don't run the risk of seeing a game collapse due to a patch etc. Primarily its because there is so much cat and mouse to game play, ok its attack vs defense at the strategic level but it offers much more than that would imply.

Yes I think he chucked everything ashore, maybe one TF held back? The comment about the British tanks is one that re-occurs as the game progresses (we've just done T12)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

I've been waiting for this AAR, Roger :)

quote:

Here's my original AS pattern. 'Intruder' are the NF missions – note I am trying to catch out any incautious Bomber Command units over E Anglia (this did not work).


(Night) intruder mission aims at landing enemy planes, so you need to target enemy AF, preferably with some recon data. Now only one of your target boxes goes over enemy AFs and most of them are used by 8th US AF at the beginning (unless rebased).

In any case German night navigation is not GPS-like, so don't expect miracles.


Ah, that does explain why my night fighters have been bravely taking off only to then hide from the nasty British bombers. So there is no equivalent to the air superiority (ie attack or defend this bit of airspace) mission for night fighters? Intruder is an aggressive attempt to catch out the enemy over their own bases but has no other impact.

Ah .. oh well, need to rethink that bit of the air war ...

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 5
RE: T1 - 2/22/2017 6:31:48 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 6176
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
That's definitely a full-on invasion of Sicily, with all 6 amphibs. Now, he should be able to immediately remove at least 3 of them to prep for elsewhere, without impacting any beaches. And you can really go down to 1 Amphib pretty quick if you want to as Allies, just to keep the British beaches around Noto. After turn 3 or so, that should be plenty.

_____________________________


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 6
RE: T1 - 2/23/2017 9:39:57 AM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

That's definitely a full-on invasion of Sicily, with all 6 amphibs. Now, he should be able to immediately remove at least 3 of them to prep for elsewhere, without impacting any beaches. And you can really go down to 1 Amphib pretty quick if you want to as Allies, just to keep the British beaches around Noto. After turn 3 or so, that should be plenty.


That was my best guess, its clear that Gunnulf has been picking up tips from you ... very keen to concentrate rather than risk lots of niggly low odds battles.

I have to assume a couple of TF going towards Sardinia, couple (at least) for a mainland landing and ... ?

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 7
T2 - 2/23/2017 9:58:33 AM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline
T2

Air War.

US 8 AF hit oil and u-boats around Hannover while Bomber Command went for the Ruhr.

My losses were relatively high but for two reasons. One was I used the Italian airforce a lot over Sicily and second was leaving some aspects of the air defence on auto (ie no missions) which tends to trigger one sided battles.



185 of my lost planes were Italian (to be fair this disregard for their welfare is going to come back to hit me later on) so only 90 or so were from German squadrons.



Digging into the Allied losses in more detail. Seems like the B-17s have had a bad start (so that may keep them quiet for a turn or so) but Bomber Command has not really taken any serious losses.



Accepting that I have misplayed the night fighter missions, I decided to gather up all the fighters in the Reich into allocated air superiority missions. All are at 20,000' (optimal height for German fighters but as we will see this brings problems).

What I am trying to do is create clusters of 2-300 fighters. Playing as the allies, I find it is the loss of morale due to damage – rather than outright losses – that sets the tempo of the strategic airwar. So what I am trying to do is make sure that if I pick the right locations the allies pay a high price and I come out ahead in any exchanges.

That is the plan … (ahem)



Quite aggressive in the Med. Interested to try and work out how many TF are back in N Africa as it might give me a clue as to the next steps. Defensive naval patrol off Calabria just in case of a quick attempt to cut off my units in Sicily.



East Front. As mentioned, am going to manage this much more actively and prioritise it for replacements at least in 1943.

One reason for the relatively low front line strength is I have put a lot on refit – would rather have them robust in a few turns than have to deal with units becoming depleted (and then much harder to rebuild).

Also, if I can, I'd rather not have to use up admin pts to transfer units either way. Want to see if I can run the EF basically by using the at-start plus allocated forces.



Sicily after my moves and recon. Heavy allied air interdiction from Messina to Catania.




_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 8
RE: T2 - 2/23/2017 10:16:50 PM   
XXXCorps


Posts: 322
Joined: 12/8/2014
From: UK
Status: offline
I love me some Loki AAR.

Excellent bedtime reading with a nice cup of hot chocolate.



_____________________________

"What kind of people do they think we are? Is it possible they do not realise that we shall never cease to persevere against them until they have been taught a lesson which they and the world will never forget?"

Churchill

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 9
RE: T2 - 3/6/2017 12:00:11 PM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: XXXCorps

I love me some Loki AAR.

Excellent bedtime reading with a nice cup of hot chocolate.




thank you, I fear its going to become the usual comedy of errors ... so best to keep a firm hold on your cup

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to XXXCorps)
Post #: 10
T3 - 3/6/2017 12:03:56 PM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline
T3

Apols this is a bit slow. Been struggling for time and getting my turns back as promptly as I can has taken priority.

Anyway. Not a good turn. The Catania defensive line was breached ... ok after it held off two attacks but ...



So I pulled back to the rough ground around Etna.

Bit of air action over Sardinia. Reasonable to suspect this is the next target.

As readers of my earlier AARs may have picked up, I am really not sure how to play the Italian phase of WiTW. With the axis I panic at the sight of my small army, with the Allies its the fear of botching a landing.

Sardinia is going to be another example. At this stage I had an idea to contest it, that PzGr division can be tough but of course its then not available in Italy proper.



In the air Bomber Command went for the Ruhr while 8 AirForce bombed around Hamburg.

Air losses. Looks worse for me than that implies as around 180 of my lost planes were Italian. The Luftwaffe offers a vote of thanks to their noble allies.

For the allies, they lost a lot of recon planes. Since I have set my AS missions at 20,000' (notionally the optimal height for most German fighters) it appears they have little interest in chasing after bombers but are really happy shooting down recon planes. I guess this may pay off in the end.

Of the Allied LB losses, 10 were Lancasters and 2 were B-17s. I suspect if this carries on I will lose the war rather early.

Of course this doesn't show damaged planes and in a way they are more important. Its all about keeping the morale of the strategic bombers as low (or high) as you possibly can.



Early view of the VP scores. One good thing is that boosting the strength of my garrison units, especially in France, is yielding a nice return in respect to Partisan pts.



EF. As mentioned I am really trying to keep this under control this time. So far not too bad.





_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 11
RE: T3 - 3/6/2017 12:19:15 PM   
Devonport


Posts: 152
Joined: 4/1/2010
Status: offline
If you set your AS at 20,000ft, will they have success against bombers who may be higher?

Don't know the answer, but I expect most playing as allies to have Bomber Command and 8th USAAF above this height. In my games against the AI the 8th USAAF has a lot of success against German fighters.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 12
RE: T3 - 3/6/2017 1:33:38 PM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Devonport

If you set your AS at 20,000ft, will they have success against bombers who may be higher?

Don't know the answer, but I expect most playing as allies to have Bomber Command and 8th USAAF above this height. In my games against the AI the 8th USAAF has a lot of success against German fighters.


I worked it out in the end and the answer is no. An AS mission at 20,000' that clashes with an AS mission will work to my advantage, ie the allied fighters will have to come down to my level to fight. But the bomber stream and its escorts aren't looking for an aerial battle so will ignore too low fighters and go about their business.

Last time I played the axis I simply put fighters onto airbases and let the auto intercept do its business so didn't have to work all this lot out and I think the AI relies heavily on this routine. So against Dave I had a lot of air battles, won some, lost some badly and burnt out the Luftwaffe too quickly.

So my take is that you need to put your fighters at around 25,000' if your primary opposition will be an escorted bomber stream, but if you hit an allied AS at that altitude you are going to get cut to pieces. The mid-44 Bf-109 solves this as its ideal operating height is 25,000, but of course by then Germany can be bombed into oblivion, so you need to gamble in 1943.

There are so many subtle bits to this game, even if you make a mistake you can learn a lot from it.

As it is, I'm still not really sure of the merits of AS vs auto-intercept. In favour of AS is you can really concentrate say 400 fighters into a tight box - so you will inflict a lot of damage in addition to outright kills. But for auto-intercept, esp if you strip off the fuel tanks (and try to keep each airbase with only one plane type), you can still generate large groups of fighters and there is less chance of the allies finding a way between your fighter boxes.

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to Devonport)
Post #: 13
RE: T3 - 3/7/2017 1:03:16 AM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2482
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline


Air Superiority is an attrition mission. It forces a battle without having any bombers present. Any opposing fighters that can intercept, will intercept your AS mission.

So it really is only a useful tool for the side that can afford to lose the planes/pilots.


_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 14
RE: T3 - 3/8/2017 7:34:58 PM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Air Superiority is an attrition mission. It forces a battle without having any bombers present. Any opposing fighters that can intercept, will intercept your AS mission.

So it really is only a useful tool for the side that can afford to lose the planes/pilots.



with some trepidation, I'm not sure I completely agree. I think the gain to the Axis of AS is you can really box in your fighters and prevent them running around - I know that taking off the fuel tanks helps but it remains a problem in any case.

A larger issue is how best to use the Luftwaffe. I think the general consensus is that at some stage between mid and late 1944 you need to start using untrained pilots, in turn that increases your operational losses and in effect the Luftwaffe falls apart.

So far (and this applies in this game too), my focus has been on delaying this break point. I'm now coming to question this in turn. By late 1944 the Allies have complete air dominance where they want and the VP gain for strategic bombing is minimal.

I'm wondering if really pushing the Luftwaffe in 1943 is a better mindset. You might reach the break point earlier but if you damage more allied bombers in 1943 then that reduces bombing when its the most valuable? I guess the question is how best to use a finite asset over the spread of the game?

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 15
T4 - 3/8/2017 7:36:02 PM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline
T4

Since this is a server game I'm reliant on the images I took at the time. After a while I've worked out a set that gives me the basis for a fairly full report but early on ... its a wee bit random.

So lets pretend it was always my intention to concentrate on Sicily ...

Opening situation. Actually very little Allied progress that turn but it looks like the British are building up for a drive on Messina.

The Italian army demands to take the lead in throwing the invaders back to sea ... at least that is what I'd like to believe.



As this makes clear, they are very enthusiastic.



I think at this stage I was too worried about being cut off and could probably have slowed the Allies if I'd held the line more aggressively.

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 16
T5 - 3/11/2017 11:08:48 AM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline
T5: 31 July – 6 August

At least this time I remembered to take enough screenshots to make a decent post out of.

Early look at the VP table. Bit worried that the bombing VP is at 9 and U-boats almost eliminated. I'm allocating some scarce admin pts to critical repair work.



Air losses (should note this is at the start of my turn as my interest is in what happened in the Allied bombing turn). Mine look bad but only 40 of the lost FB were German, the rest were the result of the Italian airforce bravely defending Fortress Europa.



Allied air losses. Seems like the bulk of the allied losses are in the fighters protecting their missions over Sicily. Looking at the combats I suspect a lot of these are flak damaged planes that then crash on landing. Bomber Command had depressingly few losses but inflicted some losses on 8 Air.

One good news/bad news line is the very low Typhoon losses. Clearly the Allies are not sending them to the Med (good news) but resting them in the UK waiting for 1944 (bad news).



While Bomber Command managed to hit the Ruhr, 8 Air had a bad time in its raid on Hannover.



Sardinian ports were heavily bombed.



Sicily was mostly bad news. Trapani and Catania fell. German units around Etna put up a decent defence but were finally overwhelmed.



Hermann's finest are reduced to a shadow of their former glory. Will pull back so it can refit properly.



My air directives in Italy. Defensive over Sardinia. Naval mission to protect my flanks in Calabria. Being nosy and a little bit opportunistic over Sicily.



On the ground prepare for the final defence of the key cities.



Eastern Front is relatively under control.



_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 17
T6 - 3/14/2017 12:01:38 AM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline
T6: 7-13 August 1943

VP situation. Pretty much as expected at this stage? Bit worried that bombing VP is already at 10 but ... . In my favour the partisan VP reflects the reinforcements I have pushed into France.



Situation in Sicily was not too good [1]. In the air the Italian airforce showed an unacceptable lack of enthusiasm.



Over northern Europe, the main air action was by Bomber Command. My fighters started an obsession that was to last for quite a few turns. Ignore those dangerous large bombers and spend their days happily chasing allied recon planes ...

While this was going on, 8 Airforce managed a few smaller raids around Frankfurt.



Air losses. This time I took more from the Luftwaffe. Not exactly really damaging the allied strategic bombers.



And a pretty chart, most of the real air combat is taking place in Italy.



Eastern Front is relatively under control.



As you can see, my combat strength is holding up



I think I mentioned that Sicily was not going so well? Here is my first attack of the game. As you can see the Italian commander was so embarrassed he has hidden his face.



Anyway to cheer me up, here's another pretty graph of all my VP for leaving the bulk of the army in the safety of France. There are real rewards for eating all that Camembert.





[1] this is a polite description, others are available on request.

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 18
T7 - 3/15/2017 7:30:43 AM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline
T7: 14 – 20 August 1943

As we are some distance into the game, worth showing the resources/production screen. So far no real worries. No Allied bombing aimed at truck or tank production so far.



VP. Pity that bombing VP has reached 10 but I am using most of my admin pts to mobilise the units in Germany, some going to priority repairs and shifting AA and engineering assets.



Air losses. Very quiet turn as my fighters continued their obsession with chasing Allied recon planes and ignoring the big scary bombers ....



This seems to be the only time that they made a mistake and actually went near the Allied bombers. See its not that dangerous.



However, when I looked at the map and log I worked out why the air war was so limited. Yep Italy has abandoned me ... after all the opportunities I gave them too.

I think in my fear of being cut off I failed to commit enough German units to bolster the defences. To put it mildly, this sets off a chain of unwelcome events [1]



Fortunately on Sardinia I'd pulled the PzGr back to a port. Committed a lot of my bombers to contest the sea zones and managed to pull them out with only one lost element.



Eastern Front. At least I am winning somewhere. Onwards to Moscow is the new order of the day ...



[1] Unwelcome for me ...

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 19
T8 - 3/18/2017 8:55:26 AM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline
T8: 21 – 27 August 1943

I'm starting wondering when winter will arrive – not the most optimistic of mindsets.

Ahem

Just to make things slightly more frustrating, my fighters returned to their fixation on chasing after recon planes. Which given what happened the one time they did tangle with Allied bombers is probably a good idea.



In Germany 8 AAF seemed to go for the mid-Weser cities, at least here I managed to catch and damage one raid. They also bombed (unescorted and not intercepted) at Stettin.

Bomber Command seemed to have a week off.



VP. Good to see so many US losses when there was no ground combat – apparently a troop movement was intercepted by a U-boat.



Overall that was a quiet turn in the air. I've shown my fighter losses and US bombers and fighters. One bit of bad news is the first appearance of the P-51s.



EF, seems to be going not too bad. I am trying to refit units before they are ground down – so it is the priority for my replacements.



Italy. Not sure if that allied region is partisan generated or a set of landings. Trying to scramble for some sort of defensive lines. Can't just pull back as I need to delay the Allies as well.




_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 20
T9 - 3/19/2017 4:05:58 PM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline
T9: 28 August – 3 September 1943

VP situation seems to be settling into a pattern. 8-12 bombing pts per turn, 3/4 garrison pts for me and not much combat as the two armies are not really in contact.



As I think this makes clear.



The Allies are predictably bombing my rail net and mostly getting the better of any air clashes.



To cope I reworked my air missions in Italy. AS to try and protect my supply lines around Rome (and to force my fighters to stay concentrated). A Naval mission ... just in case ... and sending some recon planes to try and find out what the allies were up to.



In N Europe my fighters continue to chase recon planes while Bomber Command hits Hamburg and Bremen and 8 Air Force goes for the Leipzig sector.

The net effect was fairly heavy fighter losses for me. I suspect my flak was a bigger threat to the Allied bombers than my disinterested figthers.



Anyway, its obviously time for some charts. Despite my grumbling about the performance of my fighters I'm not doing too bad at force preservation – the real question is whether you are better taking heavy losses in 1943 in an attempt to affect allied bombing? My logic is come mid-1944 the Allies will have aerial dominance in any case.




_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 21
RE: T9 - 3/19/2017 8:24:45 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 6176
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
My 2 pfennigs of advice.....once the Regia Aeronautica is gone, the Axis should not regularly contest the air over Italy. It will just get too expensive, and even exchanges where you might "win" vs. Allied fighters, you lose anyway, because the Allies have plenty of good pilots and the Germans don't.

I would save my forces and occasionally spring "traps"; basically run some AS missions to intercept bombers or interdiction. This will remind the Allied player to provide escorts, which if that reduces the number of planes dropping bombs is a win. If he doesn't use escorts you will shred a bunch of formations.

But contesting every turn in Italy is just going to bleed the LW to death.

In fact, I think the LW should basically not fly within Spitfire or early P-47 range, except in those "ambush" scenarios I described above.

The targets in Italy and France are not vital, so letting the Allies fly there isn't a big deal, IMO.

_____________________________


(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 22
RE: T9 - 3/23/2017 9:15:21 AM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline
I adjusted my pattern in Italy after this.

A few times I risked a more direct confrontation - usually to a predictable disaster - but mostly held the Luftwaffe back and tried to catch under-escorted bombers. Every now and then this really paid off.

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 23
T10 - 3/23/2017 9:17:07 AM   
loki100


Posts: 4144
Joined: 10/20/2012
From: Lochan nan balgair-dudh
Status: offline
T10: 4-10 September 1943

Air war slowed down a bit this turn. I had my first warning that the Me-410 is a bit of a dog [1], but the good news bit was a lot of allied recon planes actually shot down and 8 AAF had a few bloody noses for their efforts.

My only problem was the edge of my defensive box at the Ruhr must have overlapped with an Allied AS box in the Netherlands. As ever this hurts. Something to try and avoid but not always feasible when trying to set up different defensive patterns.



Bombing VP running in the 8-12 range and I am picking up 2-3 per turn for garrison. Not sure if this is a good idea but basically I am trying to run Italy on a shoestring and offset any early lost cities with this set of points.



Despite the allied bombing, not really cutting into my production capacity (yet). Actually my feeling is the game now has a good balance between the VP reflecting the political imperative on the allies to bomb and, on the other side, the enduring resiliance of the German economy at this stage of the war.



Eastern Front, bit of a bad turn for units flipping to unready and others I opted to pull into reserve. But in terms of progress, no extra disasters yet.



Italy. The Wehrmacht have a rest in their hammocks, enjoying the early autumn sunshine. Air recon has detected a few allied units many miles to the south.



Since I strongly suspect a landing near Rome is planned, I'm trying to hold the southern line with mobile units in case I need to pull back quickly.

[1] As Professor Song would say .... spoilers

_____________________________

AARs:
WiTW: Once Upon a Time (somewhere)in the West; Fischia il vento; (oh) For a few Panzers More; XXX Corps Diary; Infamy, Infamy!
Others at AGEOD
PoN: A clear bright sun

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 24
Husky phase - Allied perspective - 3/24/2017 2:33:24 PM   
Gunnulf

 

Posts: 384
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline
Greetings fellow historians, a bit of an intermission from Gunnulf at SHAEF here. I have been saving down a few screenshots with a mind to doing a bit of a parallel AAR if I had time, but Loki suggested maybe this would be a good moment to break into this AAR with a bit of an Allied perspective on the initial Op Husky phase. I'll then disappear until after Op Avalanche and the initial mainland campaign, and maybe jump in again at the end of winter or whenever Loki invites me back. We are already several turns ahead so nothing really confidential on either side I think at this point.

SO, as you will have seen I went pretty much historical with the initial landings in Sicily for a number of reasons. While I did consider holding back a couple of TFs for Sardinia I decided that:
A) Loki is an experienced player and the possibility of getting ashore on 2 islands and getting bogged down on both was high.
2) My principle mission is to get ashore on the mainland, secondary to kick Italy out of the war. Landing on Sardinia can achieve this but doesn't offer as good a platform to get phase 2 done. The airfields are mostly south of Sardinia, and the options to support a mainland landing are more limited allowing Loki to concentrate more. Sicily is better positioned to cover more second invasions, and also has the backup bonus of the ferry hop across the straights to secure the toe of Italy in case the main invasion stalls. The main upside of strategy focused on Sardinia would seem to be a smaller Axis garrison, and more chance of trapping Germans who try to fight there without the Messina ferry to escape.
iii) By concentrating my forces on Sicily I hoped to finish Husky as quickly as possible, and get on to phase 2 as soon as possible and avoid getting bogged down on the mainland when the weather turned. I felt that 100% control of one whole island was going to be better than even 90% of two islands to achieve this, not least as there is a slight chance of Italian surrender at this point.
Finally) I was planning to somewhat practice what I mumbled about on my Qball AAR and try to achieve all this without committing troops that were not historically earmarked for the Mediterranean theatre, such as the Polish Arm Div and several US & Br infantry divs. They would carry on training in the UK for Overlord. Air power I was a bit more hazy about, but again tried not to kick the arse out of it and limit what I brought down to be half the Typhoon squadrons, some extra 2E bomber squadrons, and a few squadrons from RAF coastal, but only to do naval patrol off North Africa.

So that said you can see from the screenshot we came ashore on Sicily as per Alexanders plan. By the 2nd turn we have pushed VIII & XXX Corps up the the first line of German resistance at Catania. We make sure we move in force to avoid Axis counterattacks against overextended divisions and we are glad we do as across the river Schmalz PzGn Bde and HG Pz Div are digging-in in force, while our recce confirms the rest of the mobile forces are screening to the NW. Otherwise so far 7 US Army has had an easy landing and is pushing ashore in the face of light resistance...





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Stay low, move fast"

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 25
RE: Husky phase - Allied perspective - 3/24/2017 2:54:06 PM   
Gunnulf

 

Posts: 384
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline
Allied Turn 3

Having forced up in force, XXX Corps with 4 division under command, and 2 Arm Bdes in direct support of the infantry, strike hard at Schmalz PzGn brigade. Two regiments from 15 PzGn Div activating in reserve gives the defenders the combat power to hold the initial 2 assaults by XXX Corps, but next the 2 divisions of VIII Corp step into the breach and force the battered Schmalz brigade to retreat, then retreat again, and as a final piece of the assault 1 Br Airborne drops SE of the slopes of Mount Etna and link up with the leading elements of 8th Army. Not enough to seal in HG Pz Div, but certainly enough to compromise the Axis position before they have a chance to seriously dig in. In the rear 7th Br Armoured Div comes ashore, but more intended as a reserve in case of necessity as the terrain is not ideal north of the island. Its going to be an infantry battle for sure.
In the west of the island Pattons armour fights a series of running battles and pushes the Italians back to within 30 miles of Trapani. Again our aim here is to make as much progress as possible before the enemy organise and dig in to a bastion.
You'll also maybe already note from the previous screenshot that 2 TFs are already back in North Africa preparing 5 US Army for phase two. More on that in a bit, no spoilers here, but we do start stepping up bombing of the Sardinian ports. This is mostly as a diversion in case there is some doubt it Loki's mind as to whether I used all 6 TFs or whether 1 or 2 are held back for Sardinia. Its not always clear with FoW I think and reading above it does seem to have sewn at least a little fear.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Gunnulf -- 3/24/2017 4:42:52 PM >


_____________________________

"Stay low, move fast"

(in reply to Gunnulf)
Post #: 26
RE: Husky phase - Allied perspective - 3/24/2017 3:06:14 PM   
Gunnulf

 

Posts: 384
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline
Allied Turn 4

In which Trapani falls to a coup-de-main assault by 7th US Army, who then move against the more substantial bastion at Palermo.
But the main action is still in 8th Army's sector where HG Pz pulls back from Catania to hold the east slopes of Mt Etna. XXX corps is again in the vanguard and having taken 1 Airborne under command, strikes hard at the hasty position. We are assisted by several squadrons of close air support and we both breach this position, but also the rest of the corps follows up to rout a depth position of Italians. Speaking of which when Catania was evacuated by HG Div the Italians took their place as a rearguard but VIII Corps makes short work of this with 7 Arm Div under command.
So far so good. Shock and awe is the aim, to try to prevent Loki from establishing a firm position in the rough terrain in the Messina peninsula.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Stay low, move fast"

(in reply to Gunnulf)
Post #: 27
RE: Husky phase - Allied perspective - 3/24/2017 3:20:24 PM   
Gunnulf

 

Posts: 384
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline
Allied Turn 5

Palermo falls to the 7th US army on the first week and Pattons work is done for a while. I knew that given a chance to dig in, and if organised with reasonable C2 links then the Italians in Palermo and Trapani can put up a fight but this sector when pretty much as well as we could have hoped for.
In the Messina peninsula a clearly spooked Axis army retreats back to the bastion of the port, and it looks like all but one German unit has pulled back. 8th Army moves at best pace in pursuit ready for the final battle.
Given the fighting is dying down, and hasn't been too heavy supply levels are good so we send back 2 more TFs to north Africa. We deliberate about Sardina again but decide to prepare all 4 for the mainland. If after the Italian surrender its clear there are substantial forces in Sardinia, i.e. the ports don't fall and the Italians are all rounded up we will prepare the 5th/6th TF accordingly, but we are focused on the mainland and hold on to the hope we might get Sardinia on the cheap... If we don't and there is a fight to take that island then its outside the budget and we'll deal with it later. The bonus is he will have troops tied up there doing nothing. Thats the train of our thought anyway.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Stay low, move fast"

(in reply to Gunnulf)
Post #: 28
RE: Husky phase - Allied perspective - 3/24/2017 3:30:45 PM   
Gunnulf

 

Posts: 384
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline
Allied Turn 6 & 7

In the end the final German unit in Messina shipped out too leaving the Italians to their fate and they are quickly dispatched by 8th Army. On opening turn 7 it seems that they took offense to this desertion and surrendered outright. While we have known this to be an outside chance it takes us a little by surprise. A pleasant one obviously, but luckily vindicating our blitz approach to a one island strategy. Some hard fighting by 7th & 8th army has probably saved a lot of casualties in the long run.
As a bonus partisans give us control of Taranto so we will have to move fast to capitalise on this. We do have a division from VIII Corp that was in port in SE Sicily in case of this chance and they put to sea, but won't dock this week.
On Sardinia and Corsica there are a couple of ports that haven't flipped to our control and we start to move our new Italian allies in that direction, while also preparing to ship some US regiments to assist in securing the ports. So far so good though...






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Stay low, move fast"

(in reply to Gunnulf)
Post #: 29
RE: Husky phase - Allied perspective - 3/24/2017 3:45:30 PM   
Gunnulf

 

Posts: 384
Joined: 10/31/2012
Status: offline
Allied Turn 8

As discussed US and FF regiments ship out to Sardinia and 82 Airborne flies in, but the Italians reach the final unoccupied ports to find them empty. They were isolated by naval patrols so we can only assume at this point that the defenders flew out. No matter, we have all 3 islands under control and we start to repair the ports for supplies and occupy some key airfields.

VIII Corps comes ashore in Taranto and the rest of the corps (less 7 Arm Div) follow up. Unfortunately on the fly we are unable to completely secure the sea lanes and one transport takes a torpedo and is sunk. Tragic but still a cheap toehold on the heel of the boot. Ok, that doesn't quite make sense, but anyway...
Also XXX Corps crosses the Messina straits and pushes up the actually toe against no resistance, although logistics here will be a struggle. We start to wonder what to do with 5 US Army now who have been hard at work preparing for their part. Are they still needed or will Monty win the war single handed? Our photo reconnaissance picks up a German line of defense forming up SE of Naples, but nothing yet seen south of here (though that doesn't mean its not there...). At this point I think we are more or less synched with Loki's main AAR so might be a good time to draw a line under this and duck out until/unless invited back in again. TBC...




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Stay low, move fast"

(in reply to Gunnulf)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> After Action Reports >> Infamy, Infamy! loki100 (axis) vs Gunnulf (allies) Page: [1] 2   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.255