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Ugrading paths for the Axis?

 
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Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/15/2017 1:20:47 PM   
Kursk1943

 

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Hi,
I tried to ugrade the Non-German planes like DW 520 or IAR 81 M to Bf 109 G-6 or Fw 190 A6, but it seems to be only possible to change the aircraft typ within the export models. Also can't change the Fw 190 F to fighter models. That is a pity, because I wanted to concentrate production in only a few models. Do I have to keep up limited production of outdated and not very useful aircraft just to keep the groups and squadrons equipped with them in game or is it possible to ugrade them some time to modern German planes (and fighter bombers to fighters)?
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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/15/2017 10:12:40 PM   
TaggedYa

 

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You can change any of the allied outdated aircraft to 109G-6 and only 109G-6 when you have more than 500 109G-6 in your pool. Once you change to the 109 you can then change to any other fighter class.

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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/16/2017 6:31:18 AM   
Kursk1943

 

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Ahhhh...thank you! Too bad that I already changed all my Me 109 factories in my current game, so I'll never reach the 500 spare ones...
It's a pity one can't find all these hints in the manual, seems only possible to aquire them by long game experience.

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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/23/2017 2:34:15 AM   
TaggedYa

 

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quote:

Ahhhh...thank you! Too bad that I already changed all my Me 109 factories in my current game, so I'll never reach the 500 spare ones...
It's a pity one can't find all these hints in the manual, seems only possible to aquire them by long game experience.


I am going to presume you changed at least some of them to FW190s. Unless you are playing a decent or better human player you will soon be changing out your 109s for more advanced aircraft. You have a lot more than 500 109g-6s in service. Just be careful not to loose lots of them and you will soon have a pool of 600+. Then pick a restricted unit and make it 109s then immediately make it whatever advanced bird you have. You will still have enough in the pool and planes in the pool can't die.

There is no manual that has this stuff in it because it wasn't known or didn't exist when the manual was written. In fact this particular mechanic is a Harleyisum added to keep people from giving all the junk air-planes to the Italians before they surrender and go away. In my not so humble opinion: the biggest reason we have the problems we do is that many changes were made for historicity by someone with zero game design experience. If you want to have a short fun game try the 44 campaign with warshipbuilders oob with the longer range p47s, with AE's .76 patch build with lower fuel use in dogfights. Took 21 days to end Axis aircraft production and game over by D-Day. Lots of fun.

If you want a fairly advanced but very disorganised manuel search for all of my posts and read the threads they are in. For some interesting reads on how things should work [but not how it does] try KayBayRay's stuff. http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/showProfile.asp?memid=25208 His Ideas are good but don't actually work because he relies on the manual for how things work and to much has changed or is bugged. Combine his ideas with the real way things work which you can find on the forums and you get a winner.

One other thing. Not to many of us come around allot these days but if you reply to a post of mine I get an email telling me. If you wish to discuss things off board you can pm the regulars with an email address. (This is often best)

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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/23/2017 6:23:02 AM   
Kursk1943

 

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Thanks a lot, I'll check all this out. Maybe it's mentioned in these threads, but I asked you anyway... Is it only possible to change the Fw 190 F to Fw 190 G (which I don't want to produce, fighterbombers are of no use for the German side in this game) or does this change later in the game? I stopped producing the Fw 190 F and their number is slowly but steadily diminishing, because I use them against bombers and even fighters with reasonable results.

< Message edited by Peter Zimmermann -- 2/23/2017 6:24:10 AM >

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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/23/2017 5:29:56 PM   
Kursk1943

 

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By playing on I found the answer myself...Fw 190F can also be changed to Me 109G-6.

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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/23/2017 10:27:53 PM   
Soldmax

 

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There is a lot of other mechanics not mentioned in the manual... As many of us know - you can go to Campaign summary - Order of battle - air fleet Reich for instance... and change advanced planes in the yet to appear Geschwaderen with Listvjanka and Saetta - type junk. Making around 500 better fighters when playing the 44 campaign for instance...
I think this compensates the pilot morale factor disadvantage for Axis player.

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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/24/2017 6:00:20 AM   
Kursk1943

 

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Good point, thanks!

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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/24/2017 6:02:31 AM   
TaggedYa

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Soldmax

There is a lot of other mechanics not mentioned in the manual... As many of us know - you can go to Campaign summary - Order of battle - air fleet Reich for instance... and change advanced planes in the yet to appear Geschwaderen with Listvjanka and Saetta - type junk. Making around 500 better fighters when playing the 44 campaign for instance...
I think this compensates the pilot morale factor disadvantage for Axis player.


You do realise that this is borrowing from the future, right. These planes haven't been built yet. There is no need whatsoever to do this if you are against the AI and it is without a doubt cheating against a human player.

The mechanic was added to allow you to change outdated planes for newer ones if you had better available. It also will let you use planes in different units than historically without having a 3 to 5 day penalty while you change them out.

BTW what pilot moral factor are you referring to?

@ Peter Zimmermann

I tend to have a bit of an "in your face" stile when I play German. Thus I change all but one of the FW Fighterbombers to 190A-6s because you get them quick and I keep one 190G line (just one plane a day).

The 190G has a huge endurance. Not so much for distance but for loiter time. If you are going to throw 1000 fighters at a formation it is nice to know just what is there. If you launch flights of 3 190Gs along the edge of where you are allowed to fly to you can intercept incoming raids very early. That lets you get accurate raid data. If you see a bazillion bad guys you can order them to brake off immediately they have done there job. If its one of those pesky dawn tiffy raids headed for your forward airfields two flights of 190Gs are generally enough to get them to abort and the Gs are better fighters so you come out ahead in the dogfight also.

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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/24/2017 8:29:08 AM   
Kursk1943

 

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I see, so the Fw 190G is quite usful in a sort of recon role to identify raids! Thanks!

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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/24/2017 8:37:40 AM   
Soldmax

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TaggedYa


You do realise that this is borrowing from the future, right. These planes haven't been built yet. There is no need whatsoever to do this if you are against the AI and it is without a doubt cheating against a human player.

The mechanic was added to allow you to change outdated planes for newer ones if you had better available. It also will let you use planes in different units than historically without having a 3 to 5 day penalty while you change them out.

BTW what pilot moral factor are you referring to?



TaggedYa - not talking about using this when playing against human player - of course. Zimmermann asked somewhere else about speeding the game - I gave him an option.
Having played the Axis side almost all campaigns through in the 4-5 years period - now searching for "what if? scenarios"


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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/24/2017 9:03:29 AM   
Soldmax

 

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BTW same "mechanics" Campaign summary - Order of battle - Air fleet - particular airfield - ac type change works well in protecting planes/pilots from strafing attacks against airfields. If you have Typhoons or Mosquitos approaching you can also change airfield, if those intruders are light fighters - can loose 1 turn in readiness but keep the force on the same airfield. In terms of realism - what's wrong with that - you roll planes far away from the field or fly them to nearby landing sites, send pilots for a day off in the nearby rural area... You lose this unit for one full turn.

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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 2/24/2017 2:18:39 PM   
Soldmax

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TaggedYa

BTW what pilot moral factor are you referring to?



Maybe I was wrong with morale - is it "initiative"-? I don't remember - it's been discussed before - approaching fighter escorts will be superior in dogfight and will attack German intercepts first disregarding to some extend morale/experience factor.

Also the ground combat misfunction - no matter how many artillery, opel blitz and armor pieces you have in stock, even when all the railroads are working 95% - land units do not recover and loose strength to 95% damage without any air attack.

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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 3/1/2017 8:59:42 PM   
Wijter

 

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To open the upgrade path for outdated machines or tpes flown by minor allies you do Need a pool of 500+ machines. Early on this could be any variant of Bf 109 or FW 190, depending on you preoduction.
As soon as you have done this initial move, you can Change the Groups to whatever is produced.

If you do this you can convert Bulgarian, Romanian an Hungarian Groups to something useful.

Hint: Be careful with JG30x Groups. As soon as you Change them to a different NF model you will loose the conversion to a dayfighter.

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RE: Ugrading paths for the Axis? - 3/2/2017 6:48:53 AM   
Kursk1943

 

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Tried to be careful with the Jg30X Groups, but to no avail. The AI upgraded them to He 219 automatically (first the Fw 190), which is the only night fighter I produce. Is there any other away of preventing the AI from doing it other than to upgrade manually my other night fighter groups to He 219 in order that there are never enough He 219 left in the pool for the AI to touch my JG30X Groups?

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