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How to use Luftwaffe?

 
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How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/14/2017 12:43:31 PM   
Hoggorm


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Hi,

Except for airport strikes in the first turn I really do not see that my Luftwaffe do much damage at all...

Using the Bomb unit mode I attack with 74 fighters and 63 bombers. All damage I can see that I do is that Soviets lost 3 of its 8 fighters that were defending... I also lost one fighter in the attack.



I would expect an attack from the air could be devastating, but it really do not seem like it scares the soviets a bit.

The second attack damaged 4 soviets soldiers... That is not very impressive...



Are there other effects that do not show in the report?
Post #: 1
RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/14/2017 2:54:16 PM   
swkuh

 

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As has been told, disruption; and it has significant effect before engagements. Not shown anywhere.

(in reply to Hoggorm)
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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/14/2017 2:58:57 PM   
Telemecus


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I have not got the latest version so can only give a few thoughts on how to get bigger scores for bombing

i) The results screen says ground forces bombed - I assume you are using the bomb ground mode rather than the bomb airfield mode. Using the latter when bombing a hex with an airbase should increase the kills of aircraft a lot.
ii) Go for airbases with more aircraft. I have not seen any clear explanation from the manual but from experience it seems the same number of bombers hit more aircraft (on the ground?) if there are more to aim at. One forum poster I remember said bombing a base with fewer than 30 aircraft was never worth it.
iii) Go for larger aircraft. Hitting large level bombers seems to me more successful than smaller fighters. Ironically for the tiny obsolete biplane I-153 its very small size might be its salvation. Although Soviet equipment was often less effective in combat it tended to be more reliable and simple so easy to quickly patch up. I guess this is reflected in the equipment data and combat results for bombing the I-153. You may even find it costs less than the fuel and munitions used to bomb it. If the I-153 does fly they use Soviet fuel and are easy kills for your Luftwaffe fighters and do increase your fighter experience and moral (although for what is in effect a turkey shoot I wonder why they count the same as a tougher kill). If they stay grounded they use up slots on Soviet airbases and their supply/support. Bottom line I-153s are probably not worthwhile as a primary bombing target anyway.

As for ground unit bombing as a new player I was shocked at how little was killed\destroyed. Bottom line is the Luftwaffe will not beat the Red army alone. However it does say 286 got disrupted. I am not sure if they are at an air base, in which case they are less dangerous support people. But you will get an effect the next turn I think as less aircraft will be ready as they are less maintained. The best effect will be on a ground combat unit. Those 286 will come back next turn, but will not fight this turn. Bottom line is Luftwaffe ground unit bombing is best on a ground combat unit prior to it being attacked by one of your ground units. Those 286, especially the better troops, will be serious absentees from the battle. Then you will see how effective ground unit bombing really was.

Also what was the detection level before the bombing. First flying recon to raise the detection level or moving a ground unit close to do the same will increase bombing effectiveness.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 1/14/2017 3:04:32 PM >

(in reply to Hoggorm)
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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/14/2017 9:45:48 PM   
Hoggorm


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Thank you both.

This was not an airfield attack. The screenshots above was after two bombings of soviet units. The detection level was not too high as I could not identify what units they were.

I have not had the time to play the next turn yet, so I can't really tell if I notice any effects of the bombings. I'm looking forward to that and hope my infanrty will have an easier job when they arrive in the next two turns.

Does it matter what aircraft I use against ground units? I would expect the Ju87 Stuka to be better agains tanks, but do not know if this is simulated?

(in reply to Telemecus)
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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/15/2017 1:57:14 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hoggorm
Does it matter what aircraft I use against ground units? I would expect the Ju87 Stuka to be better agains tanks, but do not know if this is simulated?


I'd like to know too! My impression from gameplay is that it does not matter very much. The game has lots of info on the different weapons but little in the way of aggregating them. WitE for instance lists rockets, the AT weapon, as a weapon of the Ju88A whose historical design included dive bomb capability. Given the time the only way to find out is to replay the same bombing with different aircraft multiple times and\or switch up the message level to examine what happens in real time.

Even if the Stuka in isolation is simulated to be better against tanks, the way it is more vulnerable to air interdiction so that it less often gets to attack a tank works against it. My hunch is that if you measure lifetime kills for an aircraft divided by build cost for an aircraft, or fuel used per tank kill then stukas come behind - so any comparative advantage it might have is not absolute.

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 1/15/2017 1:59:16 PM >

(in reply to Hoggorm)
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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/16/2017 1:16:31 PM   
Hoggorm


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My next question regarding the Luftwaffe:

I have 9th LW Air Base where all wings have flown around 10%. The base is located 3 hexes from the front (green circle on the following screenshot) but trying attack the units marked with a black circle 4 hexes away I get the message that no bombers are in range.

Fair enough perhaps even though there should be more airtime available since only 10% is used?

Now the strange thing is that I can attack basically all other units. They are in range even though they are further away...? All units marked with a green circle was attacked after trying to bomb the black circled units...

What is going on here? What is it that I do not understand?




(in reply to Telemecus)
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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/17/2017 12:18:47 AM   
johntoml56

 

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From: Carnegie, Australia
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Hi, you get that message when bombers are not in range, or the hex has already been attacked twice by air.

In terms of Luftwaffe strategy, as a Russian player I am continuously attacked on the move by the LW, and sometimes cop a movement penalty. Remember that.

Also the Russian player can build a massive airforce which will over whelm the LW by sheer numbers, so tiring your fighter defense that sometimes your bombers fly unescorted and suffer a heavy penalty.

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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/17/2017 9:18:47 AM   
Hoggorm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: johntoml56

... or the hex has already been attacked twice by air.


Thank you!

That was the keyword in this mystery. I had attacked that hex two times already.

I do not see the logic behind this restriction though... Why should not a hex be able to be attacked constantly?

(in reply to johntoml56)
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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/17/2017 10:26:51 AM   
swkuh

 

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@Hoggorm: Help, how to see the screen that shows "disruption?"

(in reply to Hoggorm)
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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/17/2017 11:00:13 AM   
Hoggorm


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rrbill,

1 - Press F11 or select Show Battle Sites.

2 - Click on the site you'd like to inspect.

3 - Click "Show details"






(in reply to swkuh)
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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/17/2017 3:06:41 PM   
HermanGraf

 

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One way I have been using my Luftwaffe is on bombing missions.. However, I only send BF-109s on bombing missions, not any of my bombers, so it becomes an Air Superiority mission. I've shot down quite a few Sowjet planes that way (still not THAT significant). That is actually a tactic in the manual.

(in reply to Hoggorm)
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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/17/2017 10:34:06 PM   
swkuh

 

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@Hoggorm: thanks& +1

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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 1/18/2017 7:12:20 PM   
Hoggorm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HermanGraf

...I only send BF-109s on bombing missions, not any of my bombers, so it becomes an Air Superiority mission.


Interesting! Thank you for that suggestion.

(in reply to HermanGraf)
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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 4/18/2017 4:35:42 PM   
Armatrading

 

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Does reconnaissance affect the game mechanics in any way other than for bombing? I know you can use reconnaissance for your own human planning and observation. But when does increased detection levels change anything coded other than bombing? Ground combats are always preceded by detection levels going up anyway. Does detection levels of airfields being increased before for example affect fighter to fighter combat by interdiction change the result?

(in reply to Hoggorm)
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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 4/19/2017 9:43:24 AM   
gmtello

 

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i use ground bomb attack to increase the detección level of russian land units getting sometimes info about cv.

< Message edited by gmtello -- 4/19/2017 9:45:49 AM >

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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 4/24/2017 12:56:34 PM   
Beria

 

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So I should fly reconnaissance on all Soviet airfields even if they are not bombed?

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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 4/24/2017 3:35:55 PM   
EwaldvonKleist


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Regarding the original question: Ground bombing is very effective if you want to hasty attack with panzers as you increase disruption which converts to fatigue (???). Many regular attacks become hasty attacks after 2*200 bomber strikes. Played RtL RtM against Panzer cat and I did not more than two deliberate attacks with panzers in all the two games.

(in reply to Beria)
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RE: How to use Luftwaffe? - 4/26/2017 9:07:37 PM   
Armatrading

 

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What are the best settings as Axis for ground interdiction and its escort in the air doctrine?

(in reply to EwaldvonKleist)
Post #: 18
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