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Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow Expansion planner..

 
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Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow Expan... - 1/11/2017 11:21:15 PM   
pumkinfacer22

 

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Hey guys,

I'm trying to have fun with Distant Worlds more and although I do have a lot of fun, I'm struggling with how to build 1000's of mines and rebuild them when I have 14 wars across a super large Galaxy..

1. Is the only way seriously to open the immensely boring and slow Expansion planner and click "send nearest construction ship" one by fricken one to all the Hydrogen Planets and Caslon..??

even after just clicking to send 1 construction ship the game freezes for 3 seconds to load the next list or update in the expansion planner.. it's very very annoying and not fun to do it for 30 planets I want mines on.



2. When all my "so smart" Automated Constructors go around building random mines everywhere, and then they get destroyed, they don't "automatically" rebuild the ones destroyed. and all the sudden I find my self in my own Homeworld with 20 Gas planets with no mines on them!!

How can I constantly be rebuilding my gas mines when all the whole computer AI's attack all my mines when I'm at war and then my automated constructors dont' rebuild the mines anywhere!?

Not even right next to my homeworld..


3. when I build fleets, I build like 70-100 ships now, at a time!. Then When I want to set them to a fleet I have to only go into the Military ships screen and try to hold shift while trying to scrool through 100 ships to set them to a fleet.. is this really the only way and best way to make huge fleets?

It already takes 1 minute to click 100 clicks on the spaceport to build 100 ships.. then I have to go select 100 ships again from the military ships screen...


< Message edited by pumkinfacer22 -- 1/11/2017 11:24:08 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/12/2017 4:36:00 AM   
Aeson

 

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If you're having issues with slow response times in the Expansion Planner, Ships & Bases, and other menus, you might want to consider playing on a smaller map or upgrading your computer as it sounds like you're pushing the limits of what your computer can handle.

quote:

Is the only way seriously to open the immensely boring and slow Expansion planner and click "send nearest construction ship" one by fricken one to all the Hydrogen Planets and Caslon..?

There are several other ways you can do this:
1. There is a button on the left-hand side of the screen which has an icon that looks like a crossed shovel and pickaxe; clicking that opens up a list of locations which can be mined. Scroll through the list to find what you want, click on the list item to select it, and then click on the "Queue construction ship to build mine" button at the bottom of the panel in the lower left corner of the screen.
2. If you know where the objects you want to mine are, you can go to each of them directly in the main screen, select the object, and click the "queue construction ship to build mine" button in the lower left corner of the screen.
3. If you know where the objects you want to mine are, you can select a construction ship, center the view on an object you wish to mine, hold down control and right click on the object, and select "queue next mission ... build (mining station of appropriate type) here" from the menu, and repeat that for each object you wish to build mines at.
4. You can bring up the galaxy map by pressing one of the buttons on the panel in the lower right corner of the screen, set the filter to "resources" and the subfilter to whichever resource you're looking for, and click on the yellow dots to select locations which have that resource, at which point you can queue up construction of mining stations using one of the above methods.

quote:

2. When all my "so smart" Automated Constructors go around building random mines everywhere, and then they get destroyed, they don't "automatically" rebuild the ones destroyed. and all the sudden I find my self in my own Homeworld with 20 Gas planets with no mines on them!!

How can I constantly be rebuilding my gas mines when all the whole computer AI's attack all my mines when I'm at war and then my automated constructors dont' rebuild the mines anywhere!?

Automated construction ships will get around to building things eventually, once the computer recognizes that there is a need for it. Whether or not they will do so quickly is another question, one which depends to at least some extent on the size of your resource stockpiles, the number of construction ships you have, the number of tasks the construction ships have already been assigned, the availability of resources from other areas, and probably a few other things. If you want a mine built quickly, do not rely on automation routines to get it done; either add it to the queue by selecting a planet and using the button to order up a mine at that location, or specifically order one of your construction ships to go build a mine there.

An alternative to building fuel mining stations is to develop Energy to Fuel Converters and add that component to spaceport or other common station designs. Another alternative is to design the mining stations in such a way as to make it less likely for the stations to be destroyed, though that can be difficult or impractical against the fleets fielded by developed empires.

quote:

3. when I build fleets, I build like 70-100 ships now, at a time!. Then When I want to set them to a fleet I have to only go into the Military ships screen and try to hold shift while trying to scroll through 100 ships to set them to a fleet.. is this really the only way and best way to make huge fleets?

It is not the only way, though I don't know that the alternatives are necessarily better. You can select multiple ships in the main screen (easiest way is dragbox selection, though that can be somewhat indiscriminate) and order them to join a fleet through the cntrl-rmouse popup menu, you can select individual ships one at a time and order them into a fleet that way, and you can turn on Automatic Fleet Formation in Empire Policies to allow the computer to put your automated ships into fleets (doing this will however screw with any existing automated fleets; additionally, the computer will not normally organize all automated ships into fleets).

A better solution might be to start using smaller fleets of higher-quality ships.

quote:

It already takes 1 minute to click 100 clicks on the spaceport to build 100 ships.. then I have to go select 100 ships again from the military ships screen.

The Build Order menu (top of the screen, button icon is a hammer) is very useful for mass build orders as the menu allows text input for the quantities. You lose control of where the ships get built, but I'm pretty sure that the computer tries to distribute the construction orders in the way which will get the ships built fastest.

(in reply to pumkinfacer22)
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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/12/2017 6:56:05 AM   
RemoteLeg


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I'm sensing a hint of frustration here, pumkinfacer22.

If the sheer volume of work is getting you down I suggest you delegate more to automation. Look at the Options screen and choose from the comprehensive automation settings available. Next go to the Empire Policy Screen to fine tune what you've automated.
If you automate mining, your constructors won't necessarily repair damaged mining stations when you want them to, but the fact that constructors are off building more mining stations will free up your time so you can give more attention to the repairs required. I often delegate colonization, colony tax rates, & troop recruitment to the AI just because these tasks get onerous mid-way through the game.

Another thing that might help is to really get to know all the different screens available. Study the Expansion Planner, Ships & Bases, and other screens so you can get full value out of them.
Are you aware that you can assign ships to fleets while they are still being built? Admittedly I don't build fleets as big as yours, but I queue up my new ships in the Build Order Screen (F9) then immediately go to the Ships and Bases Screen (F11) and assign my builds to a new fleet. I then go to the Fleets Screen (F12) to select my new fleet and configure the posture and automation settings. When the ships get completed the emerge fully automated and form into a fleet at their assigned planet ready to go.

I know some screens look confusing, but they can be really helpful if you get to know them.

_____________________________


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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/13/2017 12:28:27 AM   
pumkinfacer22

 

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I actually do know all those ways to do things.. I just want more of a build only gas mines and only build them close to my colonies..

I'm running out of gas so fast of course I get frustrated.. meanwhile I got 5 wars including shakturi and I have no gas..

everybody destroys my gas mines.. my colonies have no gas.. its pointless..

I should just make 50 construction ships with bare minimum (no shields,no armor,nothing but build components and turbothrusters) then also make gas stations with 4 gas extractors and thats it. so they build in like 10 seconds. (since they get destroyed in 10 seconds anyway)

I build big amounts of stuff so they obviously didn't think about that when they made this game.. I know they wanted automation but there isn't enough control with that automation..

lIke how much gas to get etc.. or only focus on getting this darn resource..

I know they have smuggling missions but they take way too long to start going and getting anything.. but the idea is correct.

I also have no good way of forcing my 15 gas mining ships to go out and start working as I see 10 of them sittin around doing nothing.. (i know I can make a gas mining ship and control it but I am not going to click 100 times on planets to get gas every 2 minutes) ... unless I make a gas ship with 50,000 cargo and then click 1 time to get gas at a planet.. hmm.. )



Or what If I don't want my constructors to build out of a certain area etc..

I need a better section to look at my 1000 of ships... not on just a long scroll bar screen that I have to somehow try to see 1000 ships on 1 screen scrolling down with each scroll being 1 page of ships.. etc..

anyway it's fine because apparently DW2 will come out..

I'm sure the developer will change so much though people will be more frustrated than I get playing the first game.. ha.

anyway I still have a ton of fun and that's why I keep playing it.



< Message edited by pumkinfacer22 -- 1/13/2017 12:32:16 AM >

(in reply to RemoteLeg)
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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/13/2017 12:29:11 AM   
pumkinfacer22

 

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I'm sure the text/typing sounds more pissed than I really am.. but I still play the game 24 hours a day...

(in reply to pumkinfacer22)
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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/13/2017 3:23:07 AM   
Retreat1970


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From: Wisconsin
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quote:

everybody destroys my gas mines.. my colonies have no gas.. its pointless..


I wish my AI was that good.

I don't know what to tell you. There's probably 50 threads about gas problems. I can honestly say I've never had one (past pre-warp anyways). I put my constructors on auto and I forget about it. I check once in awhile to see how many I've lost. Not worrying about constructors or ship designs lets me worry about war (and ultimately that's what the game is about). Good luck, I'm sure you'll figure it out.

(in reply to pumkinfacer22)
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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/13/2017 3:23:29 AM   
Aeson

 

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quote:

make gas stations with 4 gas extractors and thats it. so they build in like 10 seconds. (since they get destroyed in 10 seconds anyway)

A gas extractor on a mining station can collect floor(10 * min(40, [extraction rate]) * [resource richness]) units of each gas resource at the mining location every 6 in-game days. Unless you're playing with a mod that changes the extraction rate per component, there is therefore no reason to ever include more than two gas extractors on any design as even the unupgraded gas extractors have an extraction rate of 20 per extractor.

quote:

unless I make a gas ship with 50,000 cargo and then click 1 time to get gas at a planet..

I suspect that such a vessel will take too long to fill its cargo hold to be useful. If I recall correctly, a mining ship will collect resources at half the rate of a mining station with the same nominal extraction rate, so floor(5 * min(40, [extraction rate]) * [resource richness]). Assuming you mine only caslon and hydrogen and find a location with 80% of one and 70% of the other to mine, you'd be collecting 18,000 units of gas each in-game year (9600 units of the 80% resource and 8400 units of the 70% resource). At 18,000 units per in-game year, it would take the ship 2.8 in-game years to fill its cargo hold; at normal game speed, an in-game year lasts 10 minutes, so you'd be waiting 28 minutes plus travel time for the ship to return with resources. Even assuming a perfect 100%/100% caslon/hydrogen mining location, you'd still be looking at over 20 minutes plus travel time per cargo hold of resources at normal game speed.

It is also likely that you'd need to re-issue mining orders every time a hostile ship visited the system in which the mining ship was present, which might be quite a few times if you need to wait 20 or 30 minutes for the cargo hold to fill up.

Also, I strongly suspect that your fuel issues have a lot to do with the size of your fleet and the number of ships you build at one location at one time. A total fleet strength on the order of a thousand ships means your navy is going to be sucking up huge quantities of fuel whenever any significant fraction of it is engaged in combat operations (or even simple maneuvers), and building 70-100 ships simultaneously out of a single location is almost certain to drain local fuel stockpiles even if each ship has a fairly small fuel capacity.

< Message edited by Aeson -- 1/13/2017 3:28:48 AM >

(in reply to pumkinfacer22)
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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/13/2017 2:29:27 PM   
pumkinfacer22

 

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Ok so If I put 10 Gas Extractors on a Base and build it, then put another Base with 2 Gas extractors, then you are telling me at the end of 6 days, both bases will have the same amount of Gas?

well shoot... that doesn't solve my Gas problem..









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< Message edited by pumkinfacer22 -- 1/13/2017 2:30:34 PM >

(in reply to Aeson)
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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/13/2017 2:31:50 PM   
pumkinfacer22

 

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well.. I'll try putting 10 of these on 1 gas planet with Hydrogen..






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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/14/2017 2:08:46 PM   
Loose Cannon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pumkinfacer22

well.. I'll try putting 10 of these on 1 gas planet with Hydrogen..




Wow, you call that a mining station? No wonder your enemies keep blowing them up. I don't build anything that poorly in my home system during a pre-warp start.

Problem number 1 is you're calling it a "star base" and not a "gas mining station" in it's role. Freighters aren't going to move gas from one star base to another.

Problem number 2. You have enhanced armor, advanced shields, hyper-deny, and advanced weapons but you're not using them. These are must haves for any mining station. use them. Redesign your stations every time you complete research on any of these and upgrade as you go along.

Problem 3. Building 10 stations like this is a waste of money, 25,000 to build and 6500 a year maintenance. Now add more docking bays (minimum 20 at this point) and have at least 30,000 storage capacity.

I play large maps (1400 stars) with 10 AIs (multiple sided wars) and only have problems with attacks on mining stations when I get careless or forgetful.

Now, if you're using Retreat 1970's mod with it's revised extraction and fuel consumption rates you will still have some problems with gas supplies (shortages) but you have to adapt.

By the way, Retreat1970 great job with the mod.

(in reply to pumkinfacer22)
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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/14/2017 3:49:11 PM   
pumkinfacer22

 

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well here is my result







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(in reply to Loose Cannon)
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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/14/2017 4:18:08 PM   
RemoteLeg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loose Cannon

You have enhanced armor, advanced shields, hyper-deny, and advanced weapons but you're not using them. These are must haves for any mining station. use them.



Sorry, but I have to disagree.

I design my mining stations to be as cheap as possible because I have so many of them.
Each gas mining station gets energy collectors, lots of docking bays, 2 gas extractors, and buckets of storage. The rest is essentials.
If I add enhanced armor, advanced shields, etc. to 40 mining stations that's really going to hit my maintenance budget. Also, many of my mining stations are in safe territory at the back of my empire where they will never use this stuff.

I prefer to use mobile fleets to protect the stations near the front lines. When these areas become secure, my fleet moves forward to protect newer stations near the front.

_____________________________


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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/14/2017 5:21:10 PM   
Retreat1970


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If you're using the starbase/mine exploit, there are a couple things that I do:

First I scale the starbase by half or more. Then you can stick 100 on a planet.
Second I cap the planet with a regular mine. Sometimes the game doesn't see starbases as mines.
Third I build my starbase mines with limited components. 1 each of the mining components. Max ten cargo. No shields or weapons. Just my build and my opinion.

(in reply to RemoteLeg)
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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/14/2017 5:42:55 PM   
Aeson

 

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quote:

If I add enhanced armor, advanced shields, etc. to 40 mining stations that's really going to hit my maintenance budget

Technically, if you're adding enhanced armor, advanced shields, etc to mining stations, it'll hit the private sector's maintenance budget, unless you're doing what pumpkinfacer22 is doing and building Star Bases as mining stations.

quote:

Problem number 2. You have enhanced armor, advanced shields, hyper-deny, and advanced weapons but you're not using them. These are must haves for any mining station. use them. Redesign your stations every time you complete research on any of these and upgrade as you go along.

I tend to agree with RemoteLeg. The size of a mining station caps out at three times the maximum size of a standard warship, so it's not going to be repelling a serious attack by more than a handful of ships on its own no matter how heavily you arm and armor it, especially not against developed empires that are throwing around fleets of 15+ ships which include at least half a dozen large cruisers or capital ships. I'd say it's worth putting minor defenses (a few armor plates and shield generators) on the mines to prevent them from being destroyed or disabled instantly by anything that so much as sneezes in their general direction, and it might be worth putting a light armament on them so that they can repel minor attacks on their own, but I wouldn't bother with much more than that.

I also wouldn't bother with jump denial components. An attacker wants to leave before capturing, crippling, or killing my station? Fine with me, and if the reason that the attacker wants to leave is that responding fleet elements have arrived, well, those fleet elements can bring their own jump denial components. Furthermore, jump denial components do not distinguish between friend and foe, which means that installing jump denial components on the station can prevent nearby freighters from escaping a serious attack. The only component in the jump disruption line that I'd consider adding to a mining station is the Gravity Well Projector, and that only because it increases the station's expected time to live in a way which is independent of the total weapons power of the attacking force (probably not very useful against minor attacks, where an equal size invested into shields and armor would likely have increased expected time to live more than the Gravity Well Projector, but at least as useful, and quite possibly more useful, than an equal size invested in shields and armor if the computer sends a major attack at the mining station). That said, gravity well projectors are not something I'd normally add; I would rather have many easily replaced mining stations on which to base my fuel supply than a handful of much more powerful mining stations.

(in reply to RemoteLeg)
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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 1/16/2017 4:15:04 PM   
RemoteLeg


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quote:

Technically, if you're adding enhanced armor, advanced shields, etc to mining stations, it'll hit the private sector's maintenance budget

That's true, but the private sector needs to stay solvent otherwise they won't be able to build anything. I spammed mining bases in one game and the maintenance cost put my private sector's cash-flow way into the red. When their cash on hand went negative I was unable to order any new mining stations and I had a heck of a job getting them back into the black. That was a lesson learned.

_____________________________


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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 2/12/2017 12:55:34 PM   
Serenitis

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loose Cannon
Freighters aren't going to move gas from one star base to another.

So long as the source starbase has a commerce centre, yes they will.
You can use this to turn resorts and research stations into pseudo-mines too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Retreat1970
Sometimes the game doesn't see starbases as mines.

Never does it see starbases as mines.
You can put as many starbases on a planet as you like, but as long as there is no mine on it that planet will always appear in the available sources list and be open for anyone to put a mine on it.
The only caveat is that mining a resource this way does not change shortage warnings in the design screen, and it does not count as a numbered source in the planner even though you actually get the materials.

There is nothing wrong with those mining starbases, they should work fine.
The only thing I can think of that would stop them working normally is if you have a mod running that changes something about either mining or the economy.


(in reply to Loose Cannon)
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RE: Way to build more mines without god forsaken slow E... - 2/13/2017 1:45:12 PM   
pumkinfacer22

 

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Ok well look guys, thank for all the replies..

Now, remember the goal here, I don't have enough Caslon and Hydrogen to fuel all my ships.. So that is why I am resorting to StarBases with 4 gas mining components and 20+ Cargobays with 40 Docking Bays sometimes...

So, my problem which brought this up was my 100+ ship fleets don't have any fuel and there isn't enough fuel in my Ports...

so the only idea I came up with was to make starbases that mine the crap out of Hydrogen and Caslon..

and I do always put Commerce centers on the starbases..

but I will say this, I don't see the freighters moving the gas around.. they might, but I don't really notice it. so It just turned into Gas re-fueling platforms when I build too many ships that don't have fuel from the SpacePort or a fleet that needs fuel..

the Freighters may be moving gas but I don't notice it.. that's all I can say for now.

(in reply to Serenitis)
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