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Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion

 
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Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/9/2017 10:17:30 AM   
elmo3

 

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A friend of mine mentioned that he started the '39 campaign and did not invade Poland. He started moving units west to invade the Lowlands and France instead. Britain and France declared war anyway. That does not seem very historical. Working as intended?

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/9/2017 10:43:52 AM   
Bylandt11

 

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Poland and Germany are already at war at the start of the game. That's what France and Britain react to, not the actual invasion.

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/9/2017 2:56:37 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bylandt11

Poland and Germany are already at war at the start of the game. That's what France and Britain react to, not the actual invasion.


Well that's a bit unrealistic. Germany and Poland were not at war prior to the Sept. 1st invasion AFAIK.

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/9/2017 4:26:04 PM   
Bill Runacre

 

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Hi elmo3

I understand your point, but to have it as historically we would have to either:

Make the German player manually declare war on Poland in the first turn, which could get tedious.

Or

We'd have to have lots of complicated checks to see if any German or Slovakian units had crossed the Polish border. Not that that alone would suffice, as that wouldn't take into account whether the Luftwaffe had bombed Poland. Even that probably could be done in a round about way, but it would be a lot of work for something that would rarely crop up.


Consequently we have the UK and France entering the war as they do.

I think that by turning off/amending a few scripts a mod could easily be made allowing for an attack in the west first, and it might be quite interesting to do so.

Thinking further, it would probably be best to also change some of the initial German deployment, as having the army poised to invade Poland doesn't make sense if the plan is to invade France.

< Message edited by Bill Runacre -- 1/9/2017 4:27:36 PM >


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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/9/2017 4:52:20 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bylandt11

Poland and Germany are already at war at the start of the game. That's what France and Britain react to, not the actual invasion.


Well that's a bit unrealistic. Germany and Poland were not at war prior to the Sept. 1st invasion AFAIK.
warspite1

What would be more unrealistic is Germany declaring war on the Low Countries and France before dealing with Poland which, like his other gains, Hitler still thought he could possibly get without Western intervention. Remember, any other start to WWII completely ignores what Hitler's game plan was.


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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/9/2017 6:17:14 PM   
elmo3

 

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Understood Bill.

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/9/2017 6:21:07 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

Hi elmo3

I understand your point, but to have it as historically we would have to either:

Make the German player manually declare war on Poland in the first turn, which could get tedious.

Or

We'd have to have lots of complicated checks to see if any German or Slovakian units had crossed the Polish border. Not that that alone would suffice, as that wouldn't take into account whether the Luftwaffe had bombed Poland. Even that probably could be done in a round about way, but it would be a lot of work for something that would rarely crop up.


Consequently we have the UK and France entering the war as they do.

I think that by turning off/amending a few scripts a mod could easily be made allowing for an attack in the west first, and it might be quite interesting to do so.

Thinking further, it would probably be best to also change some of the initial German deployment, as having the army poised to invade Poland doesn't make sense if the plan is to invade France.
warspite1

Bill so long as these are Decisions that can be turned off then fine sounds good - all adds to the replayability - without handicapping those who want a greater degree of historical framework.


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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/9/2017 6:54:01 PM   
Orm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: elmo3


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bylandt11

Poland and Germany are already at war at the start of the game. That's what France and Britain react to, not the actual invasion.


Well that's a bit unrealistic. Germany and Poland were not at war prior to the Sept. 1st invasion AFAIK.
warspite1

What would be more unrealistic is Germany declaring war on the Low Countries and France before dealing with Poland which, like his other gains, Hitler still thought he could possibly get without Western intervention. Remember, any other start to WWII completely ignores what Hitler's game plan was.


It might be interesting.

And then one must consider the Polish response to a German invasion of their Allies. And if Germany didn't attack Poland then there would be no German/Soviet pact. What would the Soviet response be to an attack on the Allies without a pact with Germany. Maybe Poland should declare war on Germany? And USSR as well? The Soviets would definitely be free to go after Romania at once.

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/9/2017 8:16:01 PM   
elmo3

 

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In the same game my friend noted that he did not attack the Soviet Union by June '41 and they declared war on him.

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/10/2017 2:49:50 PM   
Bill Runacre

 

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They will, war with the USSR is inevitable, though normally they would join the Allies in late 1941 or early 1942.

If this weren't to happen then the Axis could put all their effort into the west and ignore the east, as well as invading some neutrals that historically they didn't invade, which would make it impossible for the British to hold out during the period following the fall of France.

The Axis always need to prepare for war in the east together with whatever else they are up to.

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/11/2017 12:45:30 AM   
elmo3

 

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Thanks Bill. He also saw the US come into the war in December '41 even though he did not declare war on them, presumably after Pearl Harbor. I assume the same logic applies for that too.

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/11/2017 2:17:44 PM   
Bill Runacre

 

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It does. No sane player would do what Hitler did and declare war on the USA, but a game without the USA in the war would be rather strange.

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/11/2017 2:22:15 PM   
Bmorgan077

 

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I think the USA declared war on Germany first, Dec 8th. and Germany declared back on the 11th.

< Message edited by Bmorgan077 -- 1/11/2017 2:24:05 PM >

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/11/2017 3:04:32 PM   
Bill Runacre

 

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Both happened on the same day, but I believe that Germany did it first and the USA just responded.

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/11/2017 4:47:32 PM   
Bmorgan077

 

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Nope. as I said, usa declared war on Japan and Germany on the 8th, and Germany responded on
the 11th. And in fact Roosevelt issued orders on Sept 11 1941 to attack any German ship
or airplane found to be in US air or sea space.

< Message edited by Bmorgan077 -- 1/11/2017 4:53:29 PM >

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/11/2017 5:50:29 PM   
sPzAbt653


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On December 8, 1941, the United States Congress declared war on the Empire of Japan in response to that country's surprise attack on Pearl Harbor the prior day. Following the U.S. declaration, Japan's allies, Germany and Italy, declared war on the United States, bringing the United States fully into World War II.

December 11, 1941, the United States Congress declared war upon Germany, hours after Germany declared war on the United States after the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor.

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/11/2017 6:50:14 PM   
elmo3

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bill Runacre

Both happened on the same day, but I believe that Germany did it first and the USA just responded.


Germany did it first, regardless of the date, which was my point. In my friends game he did not declare war on the US but the US AI declared war on him anyway. Again, not a big deal. Just reporting it in case it is not how it should be in the game.

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RE: Britain and France declare war without Poland invasion - 1/12/2017 2:36:05 PM   
Bill Runacre

 

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Thanks, it is intentional in this case but reports are always welcome.

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