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Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/7/2017 3:47:42 PM   
ReadyR

 

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I am really enjoying my first campaign game against the AI...playing as Allies. It's end of Jan 42. The Japanese forces are running amok getting closer to Australia each day, although I spotted and then completely destroyed two invasion TFs trying to land troops at Balikpapan...took out 18 transport and cargo ships...a couple of turns ago.

I have been trying to get some fighters to Port Moresby and have some I pulled out of Singapore now at Darwin. I have AV Langley docked at Darwin and I am trying to get these planes aboard so I can get them to PM. Nothing I try seems to work. The closest I come is to get the screen to say they are loading...but when I try to verify the load, I get a message that no ship can be verified. Langley is docked, set not to unload...but the planes don't move.

Any suggestions would be welcomed.






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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/7/2017 4:34:31 PM   
Anachro


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I'm not sure Langley can carry fighters as she is an AV. If she was an AKV, it would be different. She can transport float and float patrol planes.

quote:

AV – Aircraft Tender
Provides Aviation Support points to bases for operating Float Planes (FP) and flying boats (an amphibious type of PA – patrol aircraft)[20.1.2] and some AVs can operate planes while underway (see notes below).
Use #1 – Provide Seaplane Support for FPs and float PAs operating at remote bases.
Use #2 – Provide Seaplane Support for FPs and float PAs operating at a base that would otherwise exceed the base’s available aviation support capacity.
Use #3 – Operate FPs and float PAs while underway at remote locations (AV must have an “Air Capacity” value to operate while underway – see notes below).
Use #4 – Transport FPs and float PAs (Aircraft Transport TF missions).
Low priority use: cargo missions.
Note: If an AV has an “Air Capacity” value, then the AV can operate planes while underway [7.0.1.1.1]. For example, the U.S. Curtiss Class AV has a 0 Air Capacity, but the U.S. Wright Class AV has a 4 Air Capacity; thus, the Wright Class AV can operate planes while underway and the Curtis Class AV cannot.
Note: An AV’s “Seaplane Support” value is listed on the right side of Ship Information Screen.
Note: The plus number next to a base’s Aviation Support value is base’s Seaplane Support value (e.g., points from a disbanded AV located in the base’s port).
Note: An AV’s “Air Capacity/Used” value and the number of “Sorties, Max/Remaining” are listed on the right side of Ship Information Screen.
Note: AVs, including those with an Air Capacity value of 0, can provide Aviation Support for FPs, FFs, and float PAs at any friendly airfield, including those that are size 0 (referred to as “dot” hexes) as long as they are on a coastal hex [7.0.1.1.1].
Note: [michaelm on 7/7/2011] Next build (1108p3) will have changes for when/how seaplanes draw supplies (http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2852726&mpage=1&key=�).


Taken from this thread.

< Message edited by Anachro -- 1/7/2017 4:35:42 PM >

(in reply to ReadyR)
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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/7/2017 6:51:22 PM   
ReadyR

 

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Thanks Anachro. That is my problem. Have got them loaded now on another TF. They will have to be unpacked and put back together in PM (if they get there). I think I had read somewhere that Langley was considered a carrier in early days...but clearly it is an AV and has restrictions.

Many thanks again.

RR

(in reply to Anachro)
Post #: 3
RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/7/2017 6:59:51 PM   
Anachro


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Yes, it was formerly a carrier. In fact, the experimental first carrier of the USN. So theoretically, I would imagine it could carry fighters if need be in real life. However, in the game, capabilities are based on ship type.

(in reply to ReadyR)
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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/7/2017 7:15:32 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ReadyR

I am really enjoying my first campaign game against the AI...playing as Allies. It's end of Jan 42. The Japanese forces are running amok getting closer to Australia each day, although I spotted and then completely destroyed two invasion TFs trying to land troops at Balikpapan...took out 18 transport and cargo ships...a couple of turns ago.

I have been trying to get some fighters to Port Moresby and have some I pulled out of Singapore now at Darwin. I have AV Langley docked at Darwin and I am trying to get these planes aboard so I can get them to PM. Nothing I try seems to work. The closest I come is to get the screen to say they are loading...but when I try to verify the load, I get a message that no ship can be verified. Langley is docked, set not to unload...but the planes don't move.

Any suggestions would be welcomed.






Show us a screenshot of Langley. I don't think it is in stock. Loading aircraft on a parked AV should be instant - is Darwin Port damaged? Does the AV already have supply loaded, or another Air Unit(you can only load one unit regardless of capacity)?

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(in reply to ReadyR)
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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/7/2017 8:48:10 PM   
spence

 

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quote:

Langley went to Fremantle, Australia to pick up Allied aircraft and transport them to Southeast Asia. Carrying 32 P-40 fighters belonging to the Far East Air Force's 13th Pursuit Squadron (Provisional).[13]


Don't look too closely at the photo of the Langley scuttling. Those P-40s on her deck aren't really there






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< Message edited by spence -- 1/7/2017 8:53:50 PM >

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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/7/2017 9:35:47 PM   
Reg


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anachro

Yes, it was formerly a carrier. In fact, the experimental first carrier of the USN. So theoretically, I would imagine it could carry fighters if need be in real life. However, in the game, capabilities are based on ship type.


USS Langley AV-3 (1937-1942) was a very different ship to USS Langley CV-1 (1923 - 1936)






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Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/7/2017 9:39:15 PM   
Reg


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The U.S. Navy seaplane tender USS Langley is loaded with equipment and personnel of and at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, 29 July 1938




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Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/7/2017 10:43:34 PM   
Anachro


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Looks to me like it could still transport fighter planes if need be, but I was never in the navy! I never meant to imply it could still operate fighters from a flight deck.

< Message edited by Anachro -- 1/7/2017 10:46:15 PM >

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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/7/2017 11:06:35 PM   
spence

 

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USS Langley (AV-3) could no longer operate aircraft off of its flightdeck but it could and did transport fully assembled P-40s as deck cargo. Damaged and afire (by IJN bombers) it could neither enter Tjilitjap harbor to unload its cargo nor make it back to Oz so it was scuttled.







One can see that it has a deck cargo of aircraft in the photo. Langley was unique in having the ability to carry fighters on its deck (although) they could not take off from that deck.

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< Message edited by spence -- 1/7/2017 11:08:56 PM >

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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/8/2017 6:16:28 PM   
ReadyR

 

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Thanks all. The support and knowledge that other gamers can receive on this forum is amazing. Thanks for your clarifications and history on this.

In my game, Darwin is undamaged. Langley has only support for Seaplanes. That would appear to be my problem.






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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/8/2017 8:27:05 PM   
BBfanboy


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I think if Langley had high enough capacity it could act as a transport, but it could not park that many fighters.
The Air Support part of the capability comes into play when Langley is parked in a base (where seaplanes can taxi up to it) so it does not affect its Air Transport role.

You just need to put an xAKL in a Transport role or an xAK in an Air Transport role to load those planes. Even better, if you have an AKV nearby you can load them without any dismantling so they are ready to go when offloaded at destination.

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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/8/2017 9:47:43 PM   
spence

 

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quote:

Even better, if you have an AKV nearby you can load them without any dismantling so they are ready to go when offloaded at destination.


I think the point of this entire thread is that the writer just wants to do what was done historically: that is, load 32+/- fully assembled fighters onto the USS Langley and move them with its relatively high speed (or not) to the DEI. It was attempted but unsuccessfully in the real war. At the same time an additional shipment of 27+/- P-40s was loaded onto the M/V Sea Witch and shipped to Tjilatjap at the same time as the Langley's assembled bunch. Because they required assembly the fighters all ended up in Tjilatjap harbor as the Japanese advance overtook the port.

Unfortunately this special air transport ability of USS Langley is not possible in the game even though its air support ability can be used to support any type of aircraft in a base hex.

BTW multiple sources state that all 32 of the P-40s loaded onto Langley were loaded as deck cargo,

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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/8/2017 11:09:10 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

quote:

Even better, if you have an AKV nearby you can load them without any dismantling so they are ready to go when offloaded at destination.



Unfortunately this special air transport ability of USS Langley is not possible in the game even though its air support ability can be used to support any type of aircraft in a base hex.



If that statement is true it is unique to that ship or mod. In stock games, AVs will only provide Air Support to seaplanes, even though land-based units will support the seaplanes as well. The ship info picture even labels it "Seaplane support", not Air Support. I am talking game info here, not historical stuff.

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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/8/2017 11:49:36 PM   
Big B

 

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The simplest way to deal with the Langley's aircraft transport difficulties is to do what I did - simply watch it sink in the first couple days of the war - gunned down by marauding Japanese heavy cruisers and destroyers.....
No brains - no headache :-)

...maybe that doesn't answer your question




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< Message edited by Big B -- 1/8/2017 11:52:15 PM >


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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/9/2017 1:09:17 AM   
Reg


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In game terms as stated it probably should be a AKV but then it would lose it's primary function of supporting seaplanes. Unfortunately this is a limitation of the game engine not being able to simulate this one of a kind ship.

A quick look at scenario 1 in the editor reveals that that there are five AKV in the database for the entire war. One of these is the USS Kitty Hawk which is nothing like the USS Langley.






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Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/9/2017 2:57:30 AM   
bradfordkay

 

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There are a couple of British 17kt xAKs that can be converted into AKVs fairly early in the war (how early I am not sure - I just found them in my game which is in August of '42).

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RE: Loading fighters on AV Langley - 1/9/2017 1:50:07 PM   
rms1pa

 

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and the fun part is, the port needs to be large enough to dock the transport to off load the aircraft. vice some naval support,

rms/pa

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