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A few thoughts - 12/21/2016 4:59:03 PM   
Bmorgan077

 

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Joined: 7/26/2009
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As an old war gamer (1st board war game 1965, 1st computer game, mainframe 1974) I like this
game a lot. It fits well into what I like in a game, thanks devs well done.

I do have a few things I would add or change for gameplay or history, and some may have been
posted before so sorry if I repeat something that's been talked to death already. I am not
looking for answers or changes and if any of these things are in the game already please tell
me so I can learn.

now in no particular order other then the way they came to mind.

1. Engineers should have more jobs. Build/destroy railroads would be nice, upgrade ports and
add more sides to an already fortified hex, Etc.

2. Operate movement cost should not only be based on unit type but also unit size and
distance should figure in. ie, it should cost more to transport a size 10 Inf then a 5
Inf. and it should cost more to transport a unit from Paris to Moscow then from Berlin
to Paris.

3. U-boats need to dive away more or take less damage, the war in the Atlantic (on normal)
is almost always over by the end of 1940. maybe start the German boats at level 1.

4. Weather, the weather in a hex should show in the hex info on the main bottom display.
A weather map added into the map section along with war and convoy maps.
AI seems to get a weather break, clear on my turn, rainy on the AIs, and their ships
seem to always be in the rain hex even when many clear hexes in the area, how convenient.

5. Manpower limits should be a thing.

6. Map. A. 1 more zoom level between far out and next in, can't move ships in one step, or
can't see the ships when they run into something off screen.
B. Center on action, the afore mentioned ship action and Russian winter effects are
two of the times this comes into play. Also center on deploying units' capitol.
C. Show convoy routes on far out zoom.
D. Be able to move or minimize the bottom display so bottom of the map can be seen.

7. Axis should be able to use the Red sea to Persian gulf sea route if they control the Suez.
Allies should be able to use the Gibraltar path if Spain is axis and Gibraltar is captured.

8. What are the Shell production and Synth oil research for? Also U-boat pens?

9. Not sure if this is a bug or just something to work around but I noticed that if you move
a unit by transport using extended movement you can unload into an empty port but if you
move the transport to the port and have to move a unit out of the port you then can't
unload the transport.

That's it, just the muses of a old man.



Post #: 1
RE: A few thoughts - 12/21/2016 5:22:27 PM   
Goodmongo

 

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For #2 I disagree. First off there is already different costs for army vs. corps vs. tank etc. But distance had very little to do with the actual costs. The biggest time and costs is spent loading and unloading the troops and equipment. Outside of using more coal the cost is really the same no matter if the train went from Paris to Berlin or Paris to Warsaw as long as the tracks and other things were the same.

Transporting into Russia in RL was a different issue due to the difference in gauge of the tracks. But once on the new trains it didn't matter if it only went to Minsk or went further to Smolensk.

And for #5 that has been discussed with strong arguments made against having manpower in the game. The biggest issue is man power is either greatly abstracted so why not just remove it, or it has to be so detailed that it doesn't add anything to this type of high level strategic game.

(in reply to Bmorgan077)
Post #: 2
RE: A few thoughts - 12/21/2016 6:05:00 PM   
Bmorgan077

 

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I understand and in part agree that manpower limits are a pain in the but, but many combatants in WW2 did come up against this wall, France never recovered manpower from WW1 ( so they built a wall) and their army was undersized at the start of WW2, England didn't have a large population and it's army never grew to a large size, and Germany in the end was drafting 12 year old boys so it was an issue.

as for Operate costs, a larger unit takes more rail capacity then a small one so, a size 2 army or corps should cost less then a size 10. and distance does matter, especially in Russia, yes in 1 week you can get on a train in Paris and detrain in Berlin but you could not in one week get on a train in Paris, retrain at the Russian border, and even if enough Russian gauge equipment was available, zip around all the partisan destroyed rails and detrain in Moscow. These things could be accounted for by cost or limits on distance or quantity. In the abstract of this game every engine and railcar is wherever I need it to be at any time, that just didn't happen.

(in reply to Goodmongo)
Post #: 3
RE: A few thoughts - 12/21/2016 7:42:14 PM   
Goodmongo

 

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size <> manpower in the game and let's face it a single tank takes way more space than a platoon of men.

As for limiting builds they already have this. You can only build so many units of each type.

Finally time varies. Yes in the summer it's one week but in spring and fall it's 11 days and winter it's 21 days. So it has to be abstracted as maybe you can't move in a week but you sure could move in 21 days. Stalin moved dozens of factories in a matter of month or so. Complete rail lines were repaired in just a few days after massive bombing. Bridges were repaired overnight. So if necessary I bet you could load, move unload and get into action within a single week if it really was necessary. Now in RL transfers were division level and the game is corps/army but that's abstraction for you.

(in reply to Bmorgan077)
Post #: 4
RE: A few thoughts - 12/21/2016 7:52:32 PM   
Dmondragon75

 

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Dear BMorgan, here s also one old gamer, from the days of Commodore 64 and ZX Spectrum. Nice to see there re more old farts around :)
I agree with points 1-2, in the matter nr.-subs, I must disagree. Subs are potentially very lethal cause its quite difficult to find and destroy one(bigger map than old SC).
About the manpower-I think matter of manpower is already included in MPP so its quite realistic, MPP presents all on global scale.
Map is fine by me, I m used to EU4 mapping and I had difficult times for couple of hours, now works fine with me, I think Your suggestion would just complicate things a bit more.
Looking forward of meeting You in mp game ;)

< Message edited by Dmondragon75 -- 12/21/2016 7:53:15 PM >

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Post #: 5
RE: A few thoughts - 12/21/2016 8:05:20 PM   
Goodmongo

 

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Forgot to mention that for 6c you can do that from the convoy map itself. This is the same place where you adjust what percentage of MPP to send to other countries.

(in reply to Dmondragon75)
Post #: 6
RE: A few thoughts - 12/21/2016 9:04:02 PM   
Bmorgan077

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodmongo

Forgot to mention that for 6c you can do that from the convoy map itself. This is the same place where you adjust what percentage of MPP to send to other countries.


Yea I know that, but it would be handy to see the routes with the subs and ships on the map
when you zoom out

(in reply to Goodmongo)
Post #: 7
RE: A few thoughts - 12/22/2016 5:29:37 PM   
BillRunacre

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bmorgan077

8. What are the Shell production and Synth oil research for? Also U-boat pens?



Thanks for the feedback.

On this point, the game engine has been built with the potential to add extra features/abilities in the future.

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(in reply to Bmorgan077)
Post #: 8
RE: A few thoughts - 12/24/2016 3:08:17 AM   
Yogol

 

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Joined: 11/30/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goodmongo
For #2 I disagree. First off there is already different costs for army vs. corps vs. tank etc. But distance had very little to do with the actual costs. The biggest time and costs is spent loading and unloading the troops and equipment. Outside of using more coal the cost is really the same no matter if the train went from Paris to Berlin or Paris to Warsaw as long as the tracks and other things were the same.


I agree with the OP: operating a HQ should cost a lot less than operating an army. I mean, it are like 100 people, tops!

(in reply to Goodmongo)
Post #: 9
RE: A few thoughts - 12/24/2016 9:43:45 AM   
Hartmann

 

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I fully agree that the operating costs could benefit from at least some adjustion. In general it's too expensive, thus nobody except the AI using it at all (except for air units across continents), and indeed especially HQs should be somewhat cheaper to transport. But then again, keeping the level of abstraction in mind the game is set on, we shouldn't make things too detailed either. About scaling costs with distance: Yeah, IRL a longer distance would engender higher absolute costs, but on the other hand the longer the distance, the more cost-effective such operations are. So the scaling would have to be logarithmic (not linear or exponential). But I feel that this might all just be too much elaboration with too little effect on actual gameplay so having fixed costs per unit-type might still be the best choice given the abstraction level of the game.

< Message edited by Hartmann -- 12/24/2016 9:50:23 AM >

(in reply to Yogol)
Post #: 10
RE: A few thoughts - 12/24/2016 11:57:10 AM   
Yogol

 

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Joined: 11/30/2016
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hartmann

I fully agree that the operating costs could benefit from at least some adjustion. In general it's too expensive, thus nobody except the AI using it at all (except for air units across continents), and indeed especially HQs should be somewhat cheaper to transport. But then again, keeping the level of abstraction in mind the game is set on, we shouldn't make things too detailed either. About scaling costs with distance: Yeah, IRL a longer distance would engender higher absolute costs, but on the other hand the longer the distance, the more cost-effective such operations are. So the scaling would have to be logarithmic (not linear or exponential). But I feel that this might all just be too much elaboration with too little effect on actual gameplay so having fixed costs per unit-type might still be the best choice given the abstraction level of the game.


Yeah, I agree, the operation cost is not worth the trouble to try and "fix" it. It will never be perfect for everyone. To me, it's not important. It's just odd, that's all.

And personally, I operate quit a lot, actually.
- I operate 2 HQs to France after Warsaw.
- After France, I operate a tank & an army to get to Africa in time and I operate a HQ to Norway to invade Sweden.
- After D-Day, I operate 6-7 troops to France too.

(in reply to Hartmann)
Post #: 11
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