Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Invasion AI needs work

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> Invasion AI needs work Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Invasion AI needs work - 12/11/2016 11:31:22 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3670
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
Playing a game as Axis and Spain came in on my side. Mid 1943 then saw the US declare war on Portugal and land in the south taking a small port. I was able to rail in reinforcements and bottle up the invasion before it got too far inland.

What I noticed was suddenly a whole bunch of transports appeared all at once in the Bay of Biscay headed south. I took a few down with my subs, but decided not to pursue and eliminate them all as it was an AI move and I didn't want to take advantage too much.

What has developed however is the transports have arrived at the invasion site and are sitting offshore like sitting ducks. I had hoped perhaps some of the transports would be amphibs and another landing would occur, but it looks like the AI sent nothing but transports.

This would be a good strategy if there were room ashore for the units, but there isn't and the AI appears unable to see that. I think the invasion script needs some kind of limiter built into the script. You could say no transports can be created if there are two more transports already afloat than there are empty controlled hexes within 4 hexes of the invasion site?

Jim




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Post #: 1
RE: Invasion AI needs work - 12/12/2016 1:40:28 AM   
James Taylor

 

Posts: 322
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Corpus Christi, Texas
Status: offline
Pretty much the same thing happened in southern Portugal/Spain and it wasn't so much the transports with nowhere to go, but the inability of the AI naval forces to protect them from marauding subs.

Turn after turn I was able to move Axis subs from the Med into the Atlantic to attack the transports without an AI Allied screening force protecting them.

_____________________________

SeaMonkey

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 2
RE: Invasion AI needs work - 12/12/2016 5:22:27 AM   
n0kn0k

 

Posts: 531
Joined: 6/23/2007
Status: offline
Did you inflict heavy losses to the Royal and US navy before this happened? They simply might not have had enough ships to protect the landing force.

(in reply to James Taylor)
Post #: 3
RE: Invasion AI needs work - 12/12/2016 9:06:56 AM   
Hartmann

 

Posts: 762
Joined: 11/28/2000
Status: offline
It's a good thing that the AI does invasions in force. But atm they don't "see" that when beachheads are clogged they should chose a second landing site.

It's not only the invasion AI that needs work too: I noticed that the Axis AI has severe problems deciding on priorities once the Allies open up a SECOND FRONT: In my recent game as UK/US, they did a good job defending Germany at the Siegfried line when I did Overlord (in 1943 already), but for the price of almost completely abandoning the Eastern front. They left only various "speed bumpers" there, so the Soviets (also AI controlled) steamrolled them. One MIGHT say that the Axis traded "land for time" here, but then I'd have expected a consolidated line at the borders of the Reich at least, which they didn't build, though. I know it's a tightrope - if they don't defend in the West, we'd complain too - but it seemed to me that they operated in fact too many units there.

Edit: Come to think of it, can we maybe use this thread to collect our observations of AI behavior and suggestions? I think such a thread could help the devs quite a bit.

< Message edited by Hartmann -- 12/12/2016 9:11:42 AM >

(in reply to n0kn0k)
Post #: 4
RE: Invasion AI needs work - 12/12/2016 9:47:00 PM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 3670
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
I'm starting to think the all or nothing nature of the AI may be a fatal flaw. In this same game from the image above, I had been barely hanging on by the skin of my teeth in Africa spending a fortune on repairs and feeling as if the front would shatter at any second.

Suddenly the AI pulled back and only left 3 units in contact with my lines. Not wanting to give up my entrenchments, I waited several turns before tentatively sending a unit out to investigate.

The AI has basically evacuated 80% of the units that were in Africa. I assume they have joined the ever increasing swarm of transports sailing around southern Portugal. My almost defeated Africa Korps is now smashing the few allied units left and the way to Persia appears to be wide open in late 1943 due solely to the fact the AI up and left.

There needs to be a regional minimum force level the AI keeps in a theater to prevent this from happening. I can see the AI pulling out 10%-20% of the force it had as it was doing just fine and slowly crushing me. But almost total evacuation is a fatal flaw in the AI design and needs fixing.

You might even go so far as to create a fixed force template that states x number of armies, planes and HQ's are not available to redeploy from a region. And if one of the template forces dies it gets replaced ASAP even taking away from force levels preparing for invasions if needed. The AI could still send more force than the template states if available, but it would be prevented from pulling out any template forces if a new front opened up.

Jim

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 12/12/2016 9:50:01 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Hartmann)
Post #: 5
RE: Invasion AI needs work - 12/12/2016 9:59:15 PM   
Hartmann

 

Posts: 762
Joined: 11/28/2000
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

I'm starting to think the all or nothing nature of the AI may be a fatal flaw. In this same game from the image above, I had been barely hanging on by the skin of my teeth in Africa spending a fortune on repairs and feeling as if the front would shatter at any second.

Suddenly the AI pulled back and only left 3 units in contact with my lines. Not wanting to give up my entrenchments, I waited several turns before tentatively sending a unit out to investigate.

The AI has basically evacuated 80% of the units that were in Africa. I assume they have joined the ever increasing swarm of transports sailing around southern Portugal. My almost defeated Africa Korps is now smashing the few allied units left and the way to Persia appears to be wide open in late 1943 due solely to the fact the AI up and left.

There needs to be a regional minimum force level the AI keeps in a theater to prevent this from happening. I can see the AI pulling out 10%-20% of the force it had as it was doing just fine and slowly crushing me. But almost total evacuation is a fatal flaw in the AI design and needs fixing.

You might even go so far as to create a fixed force template that states x number of armies, planes and HQ's are not available to redeploy from a region. And if one of the template forces dies it gets replaced ASAP even taking away from force levels preparing for invasions if needed. The AI could still send more force than the template states if available, but it would be prevented from pulling out any template forces if a new front opened up.

Jim


Yeah, seems there is a pattern here. Once they decide to do a certain thing, they tend to scrape everything off the rest of the world for it. As said: It's good that they follow Guderians rule "klotzen, nicht kleckern!" but it should not be quite like "all or nothing".

(in reply to Jim D Burns)
Post #: 6
RE: Invasion AI needs work - 12/13/2016 12:06:17 AM   
James Taylor

 

Posts: 322
Joined: 2/8/2002
From: Corpus Christi, Texas
Status: offline
Hadn't damaged even one Allied naval vessel, n0kn0k, to this point. Imagine, if you will, the example of Jim Burns above picture.

Picture 4 Axis subs and a couple of Italian cruisers sorting continuously from the Gibraltar harbors out to take those Allied transports out, turn after turn.

Finally, one Allied DD showed up, easily avoided by the naval vessels and subsequently sunk by land based bombers.

What a massacre!

_____________________________

SeaMonkey

(in reply to Hartmann)
Post #: 7
RE: Invasion AI needs work - 12/13/2016 6:15:37 AM   
n0kn0k

 

Posts: 531
Joined: 6/23/2007
Status: offline
Hmm interesting. I've send this topic to Hubert to take a look at it.

(in reply to James Taylor)
Post #: 8
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Strategic Command WWII War in Europe >> Invasion AI needs work Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.105