Air Unit Upgrades

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Zoetermeer
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Air Unit Upgrades

Post by Zoetermeer »

Sorry for my many questions! I'm confused about the preconditions required for a unit to be eligible for an upgrade, specifically because I have a fighter unit that is eligible for upgrade however appears to not meet any of said preconditions.

This unit is based at Noumea, which is a size 5 airfield with 190,000 supply points. Its air HQ is the Seventh USAAF, which is also based at Noumea. The "command level HQ" for the air unit is Pacific Ocean Areas (I believe, because it is the HQ for Seventh USAAF), which is based at Pearl Harbor. AFAICT, this air unit should only be eligible if either: 1) Noumea is at least a size 7 airfield, or 2) Pacific Ocean Areas is within transfer range of the air unit. But neither of those are true.

The manual says one of the following must be true:
» The air unit is located at a base with an airfield size of 7+ and the base has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool (they may
repair before the next orders phase during the repair phase).
» The air unit is located at a base and the HQ that the group is assigned
to is within transfer range of the air unit’s current or upgrading aircraft type and the HQ is located at a base with an airfield size of 7+ and has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
» The air unit is located at a base and the Command level HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s current or upgrading aircraft type and the Command HQ is located at a base with over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
» The air unit is located on a ship in the same hex as a base with an airfield size of 7+ (TF or at anchor) and the base has over 20000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
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PaxMondo
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RE: Air Unit Upgrades

Post by PaxMondo »

You need to have enough aircraft in the pool to upgrade ... post some screenshots and we can help ...
Pax
Zoetermeer
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RE: Air Unit Upgrades

Post by Zoetermeer »

No, I'm saying the air unit is eligible for an upgrade -- there are enough planes in the pool -- despite not meeting any of the preconditions listed. This state of affairs leads me to believe that I am missing something about what the preconditions are.
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Bullwinkle58
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RE: Air Unit Upgrades

Post by Bullwinkle58 »

ORIGINAL: Zoetermeer

No, I'm saying the air unit is eligible for an upgrade -- there are enough planes in the pool -- despite not meeting any of the preconditions listed. This state of affairs leads me to believe that I am missing something about what the preconditions are.

Is ANY HQ close?
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BBfanboy
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RE: Air Unit Upgrades

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Zoetermeer

Sorry for my many questions! I'm confused about the preconditions required for a unit to be eligible for an upgrade, specifically because I have a fighter unit that is eligible for upgrade however appears to not meet any of said preconditions.

This unit is based at Noumea, which is a size 5 airfield with 190,000 supply points. Its air HQ is the Seventh USAAF, which is also based at Noumea. The "command level HQ" for the air unit is Pacific Ocean Areas (I believe, because it is the HQ for Seventh USAAF), which is based at Pearl Harbor. AFAICT, this air unit should only be eligible if either: 1) Noumea is at least a size 7 airfield, or 2) Pacific Ocean Areas is within transfer range of the air unit. But neither of those are true.

The manual says one of the following must be true:
» The air unit is located at a base with an airfield size of 7+ and the base has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool (they may
repair before the next orders phase during the repair phase).
» The air unit is located at a base and the HQ that the group is assigned
to is within transfer range of the air unit’s current or upgrading aircraft type and the HQ is located at a base with an airfield size of 7+ and has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
» The air unit is located at a base and the Command level HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s current or upgrading aircraft type and the Command HQ is located at a base with over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
» The air unit is located on a ship in the same hex as a base with an airfield size of 7+ (TF or at anchor) and the base has over 20000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
Your assumption that only PacOceanAreas can act as Command HQ for aircraft upgrades in Seventh AF is not correct. ANY Command HQ in range will do. SOPAC is likely at Noumea, no?
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
Zoetermeer
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RE: Air Unit Upgrades

Post by Zoetermeer »

Command level or air?
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BBfanboy
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RE: Air Unit Upgrades

Post by BBfanboy »

ORIGINAL: Zoetermeer

Command level or air?
From the manual section 8.1.1

»» Command - Helps in several ways. They help in giving a bonus to ground
combat. If no Corps HQ is in range of a ground unit, the Command HQ can give
a bonus like a Corps HQ if it is in range of a ground unit. If there is a Corps HQ
within range of the battle, and the Command HQ is within 2 times its command
range of the battle, it can add up to an additional 90% bonus to the Assault
Value of an attacking force for odds calculations. The bonuses are impacted by
the leaderships rating of the commander of the HQs. Command HQs are also
important for air replacements and upgrades (see section 16.2.3 for details).
»» Army - Helps with ground combat. Ground units in range can gain up to
a 10% bonus to their Assault Value (whether attacking or defending).
»» Corps – Helps with ground combat. Ground units in range can gain up to
a 10% bonus to their Assault Value (whether attacking or defending).
»» Amphibious – Helps amphibious invasions suffer fewer losses.
»» Naval – Helps to speed ship repair time.
»» Air – Helps by allowing more aircraft to fly and allows more air units
to be based at a base with this type of HQ, coordinating aircraft
replacement/upgrades and supporting more groups at a base
.

No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
Zoetermeer
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RE: Air Unit Upgrades

Post by Zoetermeer »

What you highlighted is an informal description of what an air HQ does, not the formal description of rules associated with air upgrades. Here is the part of the manual I am looking at again:
1) The air unit is located at a base with an airfield size of 7+ and the base has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool (they may
repair before the next orders phase during the repair phase).
2) The air unit is located at a base and the HQ that the group is assigned
to is within transfer range of the air unit’s current or upgrading aircraft type and the HQ is located at a base with an airfield size of 7+ and has over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
3) The air unit is located at a base and the Command level HQ that the group is assigned to is within transfer range of the air unit’s current or upgrading aircraft type and the Command HQ is located at a base with over 20,000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the HQ base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.
4) The air unit is located on a ship in the same hex as a base with an airfield size of 7+ (TF or at anchor) and the base has over 20000 supplies. Supplies will be expended at the base and the unit will receive damaged planes from the pool.

The air unit itself is on a size 2 airfield so we fail (1). The unit's air HQ is within transfer range, but it's not on a size 7+ airfield so we can eliminate (2). We eliminate (3) because Pacific Ocean Areas is the command level HQ it's assigned to, which is not in transfer range. (4) is out because the unit is not on a ship. So I don't think I am passing any of these checks.

I think in my case this rule is coming into play:
The minimum AF size required for the upgrade can be reduced by the presence of HQs.
If the base’s command HQ is within range, the AF size is reduced by the HQ command radius.
Else if an Air HQ is within range of the base, the AF size is reduced by 1⁄2 the command radius if more than 2 or by one.

So does that mean that a unit can upgrade if it is located at a base with a size 2 airfield, and five air HQ's present? Seems fine to me. I am assuming "an Air HQ" means any air HQ (not just the one the air unit is assigned to)?
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BBfanboy
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RE: Air Unit Upgrades

Post by BBfanboy »

The manual is old and some details are not completely accurate, so I still think the SOPAC HQ (if present - you did not say) can assist with aircraft replacements, not just the "Command level HQ that the group is assigned to" .
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
Zoetermeer
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RE: Air Unit Upgrades

Post by Zoetermeer »

SoPac is at Brisbane out of transfer range -- this is a fighter unit of P-26A's eligible to upgrade to P-40E's. I think because of:
Else if an Air HQ is within range of the base, the AF size is reduced by 1⁄2 the command radius if more than 2 or by one.

There is an air HQ at Noumea with command radius 5, which would lower the required AF size to 4.5. Noumea is AF size 5, so the upgrade is allowed.
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crsutton
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RE: Air Unit Upgrades

Post by crsutton »

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

You need to have enough aircraft in the pool to upgrade ... post some screenshots and we can help ...

If the air unit is scheduled to withdraw or disband at a later date then you will need to have a full complement of new aircraft in the pool to upgrade. If the unit is never scheduled to leave you can upgrade with any number of planes in the pool-even just one.

As for the OP. Why not just eliminate the need for all the brain work. Move the unit to a rear base that easily meets the requirement and upgrade there. If there is a fragment left behind due to damage, you can move a unit if similar planes to that base and disband the fragment into that unit with no penalty, (extra planes will be removed to the unit reserve)and you can then do your upgrade. It really does not pay to upgrade a unit in a forward base since it will take a week or two for all the planes to be ready. No need to overthink things like this. [;)]
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