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bizarre reaction? - 12/3/2016 7:05:35 PM   
pontiouspilot


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Take a peak at the 1st 3 combats here. It would appear that the fools reacted after the MTBs right into the guns of Bataan. My opponent didn't have his TF set for that fate. We are working on a mulligan for this. I'm guessing he must have reacted even though it doesn't specifically say so in replay. He had TF set to 4 hex reaction...likely with aggressive CO.

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/3/2016 8:11:10 PM   
GetAssista

 

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Well, being reactive in the vicinity of minefields/CD bases is a bad practice. Stuff happens, skippers become trigger happy and pursuit where they should not. A mistake from IJN commander I would say
And this is SCTF. I recall just recently Lowpe mauled some Allied CVEs with Home Islands CD guns in his AAR. Now that was uncalled for

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/3/2016 10:21:43 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Take a peak at the 1st 3 combats here. It would appear that the fools reacted after the MTBs right into the guns of Bataan. My opponent didn't have his TF set for that fate. We are working on a mulligan for this. I'm guessing he must have reacted even though it doesn't specifically say so in replay. He had TF set to 4 hex reaction...likely with aggressive CO.


I don't think the mulligan is warranted - one could easily predict that a reaction of 4 on a SCTF could lead to movement into CD guns and mines one or two hexes away.
witpqs (or was it Wargamr?) had his CV fleet react away from enemy PTs right into the guns and mines of Fusan - he lost a bunch of them but he played on. It just took him a little longer to subdue Japan.

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/3/2016 10:40:25 PM   
PaxMondo


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Agreed ... this isn't a case of an error in the game engine, this is a player choice. Would not be a mulligan for me ...

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/4/2016 1:21:04 AM   
pontiouspilot


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Bizarre/irrational enough to be Mulligan in my world....ironically in 3 attempted redos we haven't yet managed to call IJN off their hari kari run.

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/4/2016 2:02:45 AM   
Alfred

 

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There is no evidence that the Japanese TF reacted after the British MTBs.  Instead what is most likely based on the combat reports provided is that the Japanese TF was deliberately plotted to traverse hex 78,77.

Game code makes it:

  • very unlikely that a Surface Combat TF will react towards a PT TF
  • a TF will not react into a known minefield.  In early December 1941 the existence of an Allied minefield at Bataan is most likely unknown to the IJN but by 20 January 1942 if there has been any recon of Bataan undertaken the existence of the minefield will show up

I would never give a mulligan for poor play by an opponent.  That Japanese TF had no business being in the vicinity of a known CD festung.

Alfred 

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/4/2016 3:58:44 AM   
BBfanboy


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As always, thanks for the explanation Alfred.

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/4/2016 6:19:23 PM   
MrKane


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

There is no evidence that the Japanese TF reacted after the British MTBs.  Instead what is most likely based on the combat reports provided is that the Japanese TF was deliberately plotted to traverse hex 78,77.

Game code makes it:

  • very unlikely that a Surface Combat TF will react towards a PT TF
  • a TF will not react into a known minefield.  In early December 1941 the existence of an Allied minefield at Bataan is most likely unknown to the IJN but by 20 January 1942 if there has been any recon of Bataan undertaken the existence of the minefield will show up

I would never give a mulligan for poor play by an opponent.  That Japanese TF had no business being in the vicinity of a known CD festung.

Alfred 


Alfred, I have lost several ships in 2 separate game due this behavior, so TF is reacting into know minefield/CD towards PTs/AM/MGT. I did not observe such issue 1-2y ago, but right now it happen every time I have TF nearby minefield with allied PTs. With the current beta this lines are simply old info which is not true anymore.

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/4/2016 9:01:07 PM   
pontiouspilot


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Interestingly it took 5 redos to correct this. The only thing that worked was my opponent separating his TF into 2 parts with his aggressive CO left to his own devices. My opponent did NOT plot his course to Bataan...I believe him, and he is not a fool. He/we even tried way-points to radically avoid the problem in earlier redos, all to no avail. His staring point was near Puerto Principe headed routinely to Hong Kong. His prior turn detection on Bataan 90% and 100% on 2 small TFs there. As stated earlier, his rxn was originally set to 4 but changing just this did not alter the hari kari run.

Alfred...if it was a rxn would it or should it say that in the combat report? Oh, Id give you a mulligan any time you asked my friend!

*we are DBB 28 with ext-map/stking limits...if that matters.

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/5/2016 2:33:10 AM   
rustysi


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Pontiouspilot,

Very gracious, good for you. With a known and good opponent, why not.

Now if I could just get a mulligan for that double bogie on 15.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 12/5/2016 3:31:43 AM >


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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/5/2016 2:39:11 AM   
rustysi


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quote:

Instead what is most likely based on the combat reports provided is that the Japanese TF was deliberately plotted to traverse hex 78,77.


Oh, I've seen this before, and believe me it was not intentional. Plotting to move subs past Singers I didn't notice the path took them through the Singers hex. So they won't intentionally react into a known minefield, but if you're not careful they will transgress into one. Way-points are our friends.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/5/2016 3:36:34 AM   
pontiouspilot


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If your handicap is under 10 it would cast you dos cerveza!!

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/6/2016 4:16:14 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

...Alfred...if it was a rxn would it or should it say that in the combat report? Oh, Id give you a mulligan any time you asked my friend! ...



1. A reacting TF is noted in the running commentary on the bottom left pane.

2. The first Night pulse (straight after the night coast watcher reporting pulse announcements) is the :

"Naval Reaction Phase"

this is when task forces alter their planned course to a new interception course based on a reaction response (there is a very detailed post by me on the relevant factors involved in getting a reaction). If the interception point is close enough the interceptor force can reach the interceptee force and combat ensues in this pulse.

3. If the interception point is not close enough for combat to ensue in the "Night Reaction Phase", then the normal sequence of pulses follow in this order:

"Loading/Unloading Task Forces"
"Task Forces Loading/Unloading Complete"
"Calculating Task Force Paths"
"Minesweeping Operations"
"Naval Movement Phase"

most night naval combat occurs during the "Naval Movement Phase". You don't expect to find any notification here of a "reaction" as the auto change in movement orders had already occurred in the first "Naval Reaction Phase".

Alfred

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/7/2016 1:20:16 AM   
rustysi


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

If your handicap is under 10 it would cast you dos cerveza!!


Handicap!!!! I'm what's know as a 'dub', which I'm told is the polite way of describing a 'hacker' in golf. "Caddy Shack" anyone? I'm horrible, that's why I took up AE. Come to think of it I don't believe I'm doing much better in this arena.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: bizarre reaction? - 12/7/2016 10:50:02 AM   
HansBolter


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I also don't agree with giving a mulligan.

What is he doing there in the vicinity of a known minefield and coastal gun fortification?

What he is doing is trying to get a jump on intercepting the thundering heard as it escapes.

He paid the price for seeking an advantage.

You took away the price and gave him the advantage for free.

How many of your escaping ships will now be sunk by the TF you gave a clear path to?

The Japanese already have more than enough advantage at game start, they don't need extra freebies.

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